Lest you thought that whole climate thing was solved already....

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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,666
South Puget Sound, WA
It's worked to sell everything from cigarettes to cars to wars.
 

NateB

Feeling the Heat
Mar 5, 2013
293
South Central Pennsylvania
To global warming to single payer... see it works both ways. The objective should be to find a solution to the problem (which in most cases involves defining the problem properly) not belittling your opposition. I see lots of governments and corporations coming up with solutions that don't solve the problems, but do make a select group people of richer.
 
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woodgeek

Minister of Fire
Jan 27, 2008
4,412
SE PA
A: Do you smell smoke?
B: No.
A: Do you smell smoke?
B: Nope.
A: Do you smell smoke?
B: Nope!
A: Are you sure you don't smell smoke?
B: Ummm......
A: FIRE!
B: I knew it! I smelled smoke beforehand, dontcha know!
 
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semipro

Minister of Fire
Jan 12, 2009
4,084
SW Virginia
I was wondering yesterday how much impact the air's capacity to hold water versus its temperature would have on surface and ground waters? That is, as overall temps increase more water is held in the atmosphere.
Its seems many places are experiencing some level of drought whereas I thought that the lower precipitations predicted for the west would result in more water falling on the east -- but that doesn't appear to be happening. Though we're having periodic rainfalls that are keeping things green here in VA, many ponds and streams are way low.
Anecdotally, I'm seeing a lot of changes this year as far as weather, growing season and crop yields, vegetation types (more poison ivy, ugh), rainfall patterns, etc. I hope these changes are short- rather than long-term but I'm concerned. I've seen many reports of climate models underestimating probable impacts.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,217
Eastern Central PA
All the news channels do this ,if your bent too far one way yo wont see it.
 

jharkin

Minister of Fire
Oct 21, 2009
3,890
Holliston, MA USA
All the news channels do this,if your bent too far one way you wont see it.

True in abstract, but there are differences of degree that make all the difference.

Just look at the Poliitfact scores for the various Networks

Fox - only 40% true/partially true
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/tv/fox/

CNN - 73% true/partially ture
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/tv/fox/

NBC - 58%
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/tv/fnbc/

To find a "liberal source" who stretches the truth to the left as badly as Fox does to the right you would have to look at HuffPost or something even to the left of them, but Politifact doesn't have an overall summary rating I can check.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,217
Eastern Central PA
Are there any real news shows left at all anymore, cuz what i see are political opinion shows.
 
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vinny11950

Minister of Fire
May 17, 2010
1,735
Eastern Long Island, NY
Simple research helps me determine if a story is true or not. I am not a scientist, so I believe the overwhelming science community when they say it is real. I can read the charts and measurements posted on reputable sites like NOAA. Over the years, I have read the counter arguments, but they usually rely on a misrepresentation of data or some weird event theory - it falls apart on closer scrutiny and then another crazy talking point is created to keep the argument going. They are trying to run out the clock on the debate until we reach the point when the general consensus is going to be "it's too late to do anything about it so why change." Unfortunately, it's working. Any body here know about the Dunning Kruger effect that is being talked about lately?
 

semipro

Minister of Fire
Jan 12, 2009
4,084
SW Virginia
Any body here know about the Dunning Kruger effect that is being talked about lately?
Yeah, its the concept that the more ignorant someone is the more confident they are in their opinions.
Its seems way more relevant of late that it used to be.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,217
Eastern Central PA
Only a few moderates left in both parties. Not enough to get anything done on most issue. Gridlock in the foreseeable future.
 

woodgeek

Minister of Fire
Jan 27, 2008
4,412
SE PA
One silver lining I hope for from the current political situation is an object lesson in the Dunning Kruger effect that will make it universally understood.

And single payer. :confused:
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,717
Philadelphia
Are there any real news shows left at all anymore, cuz what i see are political opinion shows.

I've been watching One America News network, and enjoying their pseudo-Euro format. More news, less opinion. Occasional history lessons as transitional pieces.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,205
central pa
I've been watching One America News network, and enjoying their pseudo-Euro format. More news, less opinion. Occasional history lessons as transitional pieces.
yes one american news is pretty good definitely a conservative slant but their info is accurate and well presented. I feel npr is the same just on the liberal side.
 

vinny11950

Minister of Fire
May 17, 2010
1,735
Eastern Long Island, NY
Vice news online and on HBO is pretty in depth. They get reporters on the ground in conflict areas and let them report. That is something I don't see as much from the network news shows. They have done some great segments on climate change.


At the 20 minute mark they debunk the talking point that antartica sea ice is growing that is used by many climate change deniers. But holy hell, it takes a freaking airplane full of scientist carefully measuring ice change to prove the obvious. It is exhausting work that gets you nowhere because people don't want to believe it. For the deniers, the argument has become an article of faith, cynicism and anger all rolled into one.
 
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jharkin

Minister of Fire
Oct 21, 2009
3,890
Holliston, MA USA
Simple research helps me determine if a story is true or not. I am not a scientist, so I believe the overwhelming science community when they say it is real. I can read the charts and measurements posted on reputable sites like NOAA. Over the years, I have read the counter arguments, but they usually rely on a misrepresentation of data or some weird event theory - it falls apart on closer scrutiny and then another crazy talking point is created to keep the argument going. They are trying to run out the clock on the debate until we reach the point when the general consensus is going to be "it's too late to do anything about it so why change." Unfortunately, it's working. Any body here know about the Dunning Kruger effect that is being talked about lately?

Oh yeah, Dunning Kruger is alive an well. Lets not also forget that the "all news is fake news" and "everybody lies" are deliberate tactic to desensitize us to the lies one side is pushing...
 
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woodgeek

Minister of Fire
Jan 27, 2008
4,412
SE PA
It is hard to believe that a century and more ago Americans were famously down to earth and skeptical....like the 'show me' state.

Now we are leaders (and innovators) in the belief and promulgation of a lot of nonsense the rest of the world just shakes their head at.
 

semipro

Minister of Fire
Jan 12, 2009
4,084
SW Virginia

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,666
South Puget Sound, WA
50 yrs ago there were science advisors to the prez and cabinet. Now the cabinet holds regular bible classes instead.
 
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Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,217
Eastern Central PA
Our Govt and most of those in charge are guilty of being short sighted. Climate change is a perfect example. but it soaks into all things. We can make a long list of things promoted by both sides that are simply unsustainable. And things that cannot continue eventually do not. Where is the green party?
 
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Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,217
Eastern Central PA
I was wondering yesterday how much impact the air's capacity to hold water versus its temperature would have on surface and ground waters? That is, as overall temps increase more water is held in the atmosphere.
.
Were more than 6 times the avg. rainfall for July . June was above avg too. Seeing heavier and more often downpours than usual.
 

woodgeek

Minister of Fire
Jan 27, 2008
4,412
SE PA
Our Govt and most of those in charge are guilty of being short sighted. Climate change is a perfect example. but it soaks into all things. We can make a long list of things promoted by both sides that are simply unsustainable. And things that cannot continue eventually do not. Where is the green party?

I'm lost. Can we get some examples of equivalently non-sustainable things....ideas promulgated by different parties or other vested interests, that will destroy the biosphere in < 100 years??

Many things are said to be unsustainable **economically**, but I am yet to see an economic issue that didn't have at least 4 completely different sets of opinions....all which make a good case.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,666
South Puget Sound, WA
I'm lost. Can we get some examples of equivalently non-sustainable things....ideas promulgated by different parties or other vested interests, that will destroy the biosphere in < 100 years??

Many things are said to be unsustainable **economically**, but I am yet to see an economic issue that didn't have at least 4 completely different sets of opinions....all which make a good case.
Global coal and gas energy production are unsustainable at current rates. Soil depletion by large scale, chemical based agribiz probably fits under this category too.
 
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