Looking for a Wood Fireplace insert

[mini1274]

Hi,

I am looking to get a wood insert for our fireplace, but not really sure which brand to get it. I do have a fairly big fireplace (31" height in the front, 20 inches deep, 26" wide in the back and 35" wide in the front), but not sure which brand insert to get. I have looked at Hampton HI300 and Pacific Energy Super insert. Any opinion on any of these brands?

Thanks!

 

[Slow1]

Hey folks -

This is a friend of mine - I'm trying hard not to bias things too much as I told her that the gang here would help her out.

Additional info:

She is looking to offset as much oil burn as possible - doesn't think she'll do 24/7 burning (but you all know how that goes). Home is very open floor plan with a lot of space to heat (cathedral ceilings to boot) - somewhere around 2000 sq foot on each floor so I don't think one could go too large here on the stove (not really expecting to heat the whole thing - just see how much of a dent they can make). They would like to be able to get long burns (if they are ever to go 24/7 they would have to do this).

I don't know inserts - too bad Woodstock doesn't make one or I'd be sure to recommend that, heh. However, in the debate between insert and stove they've decided to go the way of the insert. Is there a good cat insert that will take advantage of the fireplace size she has? I.e. something with a good size firebox etc?

Wood supply is not yet there - if she gets stove in place I'll try and help her out some this first season and get her going to be ready for next year.

 

[mwilliams7967]

Hello, I just did a lot of shopping around for a wood burning insert. I ended up with the Hampton Regency in Timberline Brown. Absolutely love it, seems to be very efficient and looks gorgeous! I am going attach a picture of it burning as we speak.

 

[begreen]

It sounds like a 3 cu ft insert will be needed. In the PE line that would be the Summit. At 2.3cu ft the Hampton might be too small too . The Jotul C550 Rockland is 3 cu ft., Also look at the Lopi Freedom or Avalon Olympic.

 

[Chargerman]

I love my Country Flame BBF(now American Energy) catalytic. It doesn't get much mention around here but it does heat well. It is right at the limit of fitting in your fireplace from the looks of it.

http://www.americanenergysystems.com/bbfinsert.cfm

 

[burleymike]

I have an Osburn 2400 insert on it's way, should be here Thursday. If I had the money I would have gone with a Blaze King princess insert for the 24 hour burn time.

 

[KB007]

We have a Regency I3100 - 3 cuft firebox and puts out a ton of heat.

 

[Hurricane]

I have gotten great heat and use out of my Quadrafire 5100 insert. I have it about 12-13 years now and no problems. ( Non-Cat )

 

[MetMan]

I'm starting my second season with a Hampton I300 and love it. Cut my oil bill more than in half last year and may do better this year with all I learned last year. Can't speak for other brands but I'm sure there are lots of choices that will serve you well too.

 

[mini1274]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. How much of a difference it makes if I have a catalytic insert vs. non catalytic? I can't find any catalytic inserts in any of the local stores much..

 

[jadm]

You might want to start a new topic to get comparisons on cat vs non-cat. Many people just read the initial topic and respond to it.

There are probably discussions here already too. If you do an advanced search - type in cat vs non-cat - if they are here they will come up.

I have a non-cat and can't tell you the difference... :red: sorry.

You are lucky to be doing your research now. THere is a wealth of information here that will save you a lot in the future.

 

[burleymike]

A cat stove will allow you to let the fire smolder for 24 hours and you will get heat that whole time. You will not get full heat output if you choke it down like that but the cat will keep burning the smoke so it will be a clean slow burn.

With a cat stove you do have to operate it properly. Load it up with wood, open the bypass damper, start the fire, when the temp gets up to 500 or so close the bypass and adjust your air intake and you are good to go for 12-24 hours depending on the stove.

A non cat stove you will get a good clean burn for 6-10 hours. You load up with wood, start the fire, when it gets up to about 500 start dialing the air down making sure the secondary tubes are burning. On most stoves you need to dial the air supply down slowly in increments to avoid killing your new fire. Once you get it where you want it will be good to go. If you get too hot a fire you don't need to worry about destroying the cat. However if you dial it down too late you will have a very hot fire and will have to open windows.

Both types of stove will require some learning to operate them but IMO they are both easy to operate once you get the hang of it. If I had the money I would have gone with a Blaze King for two simple reasons, 24 hour burn time and the thermostatic air control. You set the thermostat and the stove automatically gets the right amount of air to maintain the temperature you selected.

The reason most dealers don't sell cat stoves is because of the bad rep they got in their early days. The early designs were poor and resulted in a lot of failed cats. On those old stoves you had to be very careful how you operated the stove to prevent flame impingement to the cat. The modern stoves have addressed those issues and are much better.

 

[joefrompa]

What's your budget for this and how long do you plan on living here?

You can get a very large cat insert (on the expensive side of things) and get 24 hour long burns and alot of great heat.

For a good bit less money you can get a large non-catalytic stove that will give you lower maintenance and cost of ownership (over a 10 year span of time) and is a tad bit simpler to operate, and will burn for about 10-12 hours maximum.

One important thing to note here: if you throw 25 pounds of wood into the stove, it's going to provide the heat of 25 pounds of wood. Whether that's over 10 hours or 24 hours between re-loads, you aren't going to get a substantial amount of actual heat output between the two.

I'd recommend a Lopi Freedom or Quadrafire 5100i - if you keep either one of these burning when you'd usually be using oil, expect your bill to easily be cut in half. The Lopi can be had less expensively in my opinion....my Lopi Republic 1750 insert is getting installed on the 22nd of this month, is meant to heat 2000 square feet of a non-ideally situated house, and was about $1800 for the insert, surround trim, blower, door, etc. Installation will probably run another $1200. Then there's the tax credit...

And that's another option still, if you want to "put a dent" in the oil usage and have a nice fire, but not spend alot: go with a mid-sized insert that could be suitable for a zone-heating approach to your living space. It won't heat the house, but it'll maybe keep you happy when you are in your main living area.

Joe

 

[Geppetto83]

A cat stove will allow you to let the fire smolder for 24 hours and you will get heat that whole time. You will not get full heat output if you choke it down like that but the cat will keep burning the smoke so it will be a clean slow burn.

With a cat stove you do have to operate it properly. Load it up with wood, open the bypass damper, start the fire, when the temp gets up to 500 or so close the bypass and adjust your air intake and you are good to go for 12-24 hours depending on the stove.

A non cat stove you will get a good clean burn for 6-10 hours. You load up with wood, start the fire, when it gets up to about 500 start dialing the air down making sure the secondary tubes are burning. On most stoves you need to dial the air supply down slowly in increments to avoid killing your new fire. Once you get it where you want it will be good to go. If you get too hot a fire you don't need to worry about destroying the cat. However if you dial it down too late you will have a very hot fire and will have to open windows.

Both types of stove will require some learning to operate them but IMO they are both easy to operate once you get the hang of it. If I had the money I would have gone with a Blaze King for two simple reasons, 24 hour burn time and the thermostatic air control. You set the thermostat and the stove automatically gets the right amount of air to maintain the temperature you selected.

The reason most dealers don't sell cat stoves is because of the bad rep they got in their early days. The early designs were poor and resulted in a lot of failed cats. On those old stoves you had to be very careful how you operated the stove to prevent flame impingement to the cat. The modern stoves have addressed those issues and are much better.

Hi Burleymike,
This is one of the best explanations I’ve ever read about the difference between cat vs non cat stoves. Will it be also fair to say that cat stoves will require more maintenance since the cat needs to be clean before every season? Also, if I understand correctly, you need to replace the cat every 4 or + years to assure you’re always burning clean and obtaining longer fires and unless you can do it yourself, this is a $300 to $500 extra cost. Some of the secondary air technology manufacturers (non-cat) actually offer a lifetime warranty on the stainless tubes, so, maintenance and replacement wise, you can burn your stove worries free for… well, a lifetime! Let me know what you think of this! Regards,

 

[begreen]

That is somewhat old school thinking. Every stove needs cleaning at least annually. Cleaning the cat at that time should be part of the process and a reasonably quick task. Modern cat converter can last much longer than 4 years. Replacing a cat after 7-10 years is not a much greater expense than replacing the fiber baffle boards on many stoves.

What is not mentioned is that a good cat stove will allow the user to burn more efficiently at a low burn during the shoulder seasons. It's ability to burn cleanly with a low fire is one of the reasons that well designed cat stove continue to be popular. If this aspect interests you, then it may be worth looking at cat inserts from Buck or Blaze King for your home.

 

[weatherguy]

For a good bit less money you can get a large non-catalytic stove that will give you lower maintenance and cost of ownership (over a 10 year span of time) and is a tad bit simpler to operate, and will burn for about 10-12 hours maximum

I dont think a stove can be an simpler to operate than my Blaze King Princess. Close the bypass, set the thermostat and forget it. Im not sure if other catalyctic stoves without this thermostat feature are more work or not since Ive only ever used the BK. If a newbie moron like me can learn to operate this thing in a couple days, its gotta be simple :lol:

 

[joefrompa]

Which is why i said, "is a tad bit simpler to operate"

Tad bit meaning = you don't even need to be concerned with whether the temp is sufficient for the cat to light-off

I'm not putting down cat stoves. I'm simply observing that the difference is a "tad bit more" to learn

 

[weatherguy]

Which is why i said, “is a tad bit simpler to operate”

Tad bit meaning = you don’t even need to be concerned with whether the temp is sufficient for the cat to light-off

I’m not putting down cat stoves. I’m simply observing that the difference is a “tad bit more” to learn

I understood what you said, Im saying I think its easier, theres a gauge to tell you when to engage the cat, and then set the thermo, easy peasy ;-)

 

[Geppetto83]

That is somewhat old school thinking. Every stove needs cleaning at least annually. Cleaning the cat at that time should be part of the process and a reasonably quick task. Modern cat converter can last much longer than 4 years. Replacing a cat after 7-10 years is not a much greater expense than replacing the fiber baffle boards on many stoves.

What is not mentioned is that a good cat stove will allow the user to burn more efficiently at a low burn during the shoulder seasons. It's ability to burn cleanly with a low fire is one of the reasons that well designed cat stove continue to be popular. If this aspect interests you, then it may be worth looking at cat inserts from Buck or Blaze King for your home.

Hi BG,
Thanks for your input in this. I agree with what you say. Still, I honestly believe that cat and non-cat stoves are for different types of consumers. I’ve seen several times, home owners with cat stoves that haven’t replaced the cat in over 20 years, not counting the fact that some of them couldn’t tell when the damper was closed or open. We will agree that “environmentally friendly” wise, this is the worst scenario! On these cases, I think is fair to explain to consumers that non-cat stoves are, as a matter of fact, a “tad bit simpler to use” and they rely less (almost not at all) in consumers to assure green burning.
Yes, cat stoves will always be popular and when use correctly, they will allow the home owner to get longer burn times. On the other hand, more and more consumers want to obtain the great cozy ambience that only wood burning can bring, with the less work possible. Non-cat stoves can bring a more than fair solution to these cases, with a bullet proof technology!
Regarding the baffles, there are new better materials being use these days. The Enerzone and Osburn brands use a C-Cast baffle; this is a ceramic cast that can hold temperatures well above vermiculite. Let me know if you wish to have more information on this subject. Regards,