Looking into a pellet stove

[Skier76]

If you've got some time to kill, here's the original thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/37795/

Cliffs: It's giong to cost big bucks to fab up a chimney that will work with a woodstove on our weekend house in VT. Since we use the house only on the weekends, it's not worth the expense.

The guy at the stove store suggested getting a pellet stove. I hadn't considered that before, but after doing some research and talking to a good friend, I think it's a great option.

One of the reasons we wanted to stay with wood was the ability to heat the house if the power goes out. If things got really bad, I could zip up there, light a fire and wait it out until the power comes back on. I've done some digging here and it looks like one could use a generator if the power goes out or a battery setup. I'm somewhat leaning towards the generator because we'd still have the ability to run the well pump and a few other outlets in addition to the stove. Or, if funds are tight, just use the generator to run the stove.

The next issue is pellet useage. The house is in Southern VT, but it still gets fairly chilly up there. We'll be there mostly on the weekends, with maybe a week and definately a few long weekends during ski season. I'm not quite sure how many tons of pellets to get. I'm thinking one ton may do it? I guess another advantage of pellets is you can always run to the store if you get low...and not have to 'season' them first. There's a place right over the boarder in NH selling premium pellets for $258 a ton...tax free and free delivery.

Right now, I'm thinking Quadrafire Santa Fe or Castile. The Castile is a bit pricier, but we were originally looking at the Jotul Castine because we liked the looks of the cast stove over the steel; just personal preference.

 

[imacman]

Skier,

the pellet stove is the way to go, IMO. As long as you have a place to store the pellets out of the weather, the 1 ton should do you OK as long as you just do the weekend/long weekend thing.

And the generator does make sense for you since it would run the well pump, outlets, stove, etc. Just make sure to get one that has all the wattage you need, plus some extra. Pellet stoves (if they have an ignitor for auto start) typically pull around 400 watts during start-up, then go down to about 180-200 during normal running. I've seen some great deals on generators lately.

Oh, and don't forget the tax credits you'll get if you buy between now and the end of 2010.....I just am about to post a link to it on the forum, but here it is anyway:

(broken link removed to http://www.northlineexpress.com/consumer-tax-incentives.asp)

OH, and BTW, please post the place that you mentioned that's selling the pellets for $258/ton w/ free delivery...that's a REAL good deal these days! What brand pellets are they?

 

[Skier76]

Thanks macman!

Storeage is a bit of an issue. We don't have a shed as of yet, so I'm assuming I'll have to keep the pellets in the lower living area of the house. I could always stash a few under the daybeds down there.

I agree with the deals on generators; seems like there are many out there. What's it typically cost to have an electrician wire up an outlet for one? I guess if push comes to shove, I could wire up a dedicated outlet (one that's just hooked up to the generator and not the breaker box) specifically for the pellet stove. I'd at least have heat that way.

The tax incentive came at a great time! We'll be taking advantage of that.

Perkins Home Center: (broken link removed to http://www.perkinshomecenter.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=44)

We just found it last week, but it was closed when we were on our way back from Keene. I saw the ad for pellets in the local newspaper suppliment mailed to us every week in VT. There's no brand in the add, it just says "premium wood pellets".

 

[imacman]

If I were you, I'd contact a local electrician and have him wire a manual transfer switch for the generator...easiest way to go. Plug the genny in, start it, and flip the switch. Plus that way, you have as many outlets, stove, lights, etc. wired as your generator can handle under normal "running" load. Like I said before, figure out the wattage needed to run what you want in the house, and then add some more generator capacity....better too much than not enough. Tell the electrician what you want to run, and they'll probably know how big a genny to get to safely handle it.

As for the pellets, beware the "premium wood pellets" that don't have a name. Best thing would be to call and ask what brand they are, and are they soft or hardwood. If you don't know anything about them, post another thread on here and ask, or use the search feature. All pellets are not the same, but if their a decent pellet, that is a really good price!

 

[Skier76]

That's good to know that some pellets are better than others. I'll give the store a call and see what brand they are. I'll then post up and see if they're worth getting and/or if they have other brands available. I appreciate the advice.

I was thinking of that as well. We just had an electrician up there to to put in a new breaker box, clean up some wiring and add some electric baseboard heaters to head the downstais when we're gone during the week. I wonder what it would cost to have him do what you suggested?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

macman has posted some great info , im going to add just a few tidbits;

as for pellets , premium grade with no "name label" is a risk , to learn more on them visit www.pelletheat.org the homesite of the pellet fuels institute.

as for the genny , i strongly urge you to ensure you have good surge suppression on the circuit for the pellet stove (as well as any other sensitive items) generator power sometimes can be uneven and provide surges, a good system to smooth this power out is definately worth the investment , most control boards for these stoves arent available in bubble gum machines.

as for usage , look at the expected square footage of coverage and think on a ratio based on 1 to 2 bags a day of use, this will depend on the sq ft coverage of the unit , be advised (im using a simple example to make math easier) if you have a 1K sq ft space and a 1500 sq ft stove you will heat it easily if insulated a 2k sq ft space with a 2200 sq ft stove you will not heat quite as easily but will cover it. reason is its a "point source" heater and the larger the space the more work from a single spot to heat it.

location is a key point as well, if you have a way to somewhat centrally locate the unit rather than at one end of the structure, you will do better , also if the unit can be in the largest volume room of the structure its best to more readily heat the largest volume of air the fastest. by the expectation above you are looking at best case 50 days per ton , worst case 25 days per ton , i'd expect average of 40 days per ton is middle of the road for your climate , also bear in mind a pellet stove will have to run fairly hard to bring up the temp but can be then turned down to cruise and maintaini heat levels. so if its a weekend retreat and unheated during the week you could burn more than expected due to the "sprint" to get warmed up, add a half bag per cycle to your thinking if this is the case.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Not a pellet user, but I thought I would jump in.
We bought a generator over the last ice storm, and I am having an electrician put in a 6 panel switch onto our 120 panel. Cost is about 650 and we can plug the generator right into the panal, and use the stuff we need when the power goes out.
Good luck...I have been following your thread, and although I love burning wood, the pellet stove seems to make the most sense in your position...possible some electric baseboards in the rooms where you have some plumbing, etc.
Post some pics when you are complete. Good luck

 

[LewLasher]

The tax incentive came at a great time! We'll be taking advantage of that.

I don't think you can get the tax credit for a second home.

 

[imacman]

The tax incentive came at a great time! We'll be taking advantage of that.

I don't think you can get the tax credit for a second home.

OOOOOPS...sorry Skier. Lewlasher is right....vacation homes aren't covered:

"Q. Are biomass stoves installed in new homes, or vacation homes, covered by this tax credit?
A. No. The IRS is very clear that this credit applies only to existing principal residences, thus new homes and vacation homes would not qualify, nor would homes owned as rental units."

Sorry! :red:

 

[Skier76]

Eek! I didn't even think of that! Darn tax rules!

We've got the baseboard heaters installed downstairs (electric) and will use those to keep the lower level and utility room around 50-55F when we're away.

The stove will be located in the lower level, which is the largest "room" in the house. Since the house is an a frame, the lower level is more traditional with straight walls and a ceiling. We have two 8"x8" (maybe a bit larger...I never measured) grates located in the ceiling of the lower level which will allow the warm air to rise to the main level. Also, the stove will be near the spiral staircase, so that will allow for a good deal of heat transfer.

I was all excited to burn wood again. We burned wood growing up, so I was looking forward to getting back into it. I had brought up a bunch of free pallets I scored in CT in order to start making some wood piles. No biggie though; I'll just use the wood I have as wood for our fire pit. And based on our needs, it looks like the pellet stove will probably be easier to manage.

I appreciate all the insite about pellets and how much we may potentiall use. I'll keep everyone posted regarding the stove. I don't think the stove store has been to the house yet. I haven't heard from them this week. The generator info is great as well.

I'm going to run to that home center and see what they have for pellets. I'm not going to pull the trigger until we're firm on the stove. After all, I almost bought two cords of wood a few weeks back. Glad I didn't do that.

 

[Skier76]

The guy from the stove store came out to the house last week. He said he can use the existing hole in the wall (for the current chimney piping) to vent the pellet stove. We decided to go with the 4" pipe/vent; the one that acts as the exhaust and intake all in one. That will allow us to vent straight out of the wall without a vertical run of pipe.

I'm just waiting on an estimate. We're probably going to go with the Castile...and my wife liked the log kit....

 

[imacman]

......We're probably going to go with the Castile...and my wife liked the log kit....

Glad to hear things are moving along. From what you mentioned, I guess your going with Selkirk Direct vent exhaust/air intake system.....nice! Don't know if they quoted you a price on the piping, but this should give you an idea.....maybe buy all the pipe yourself, and have them install it?? This kit has everything for a horizontal install except the length of straight pipe you need to go through the wall:

(broken link removed to http://www.elitedeals.com/cpf-77406.html?productid=cpf-77406&channelid=FROOG)

Oh, and about the log kit......the consensus on here is that they are a pain in the a** when you are burning and have to clean the stove....they just get in the way and are just one more thing to have to remove and clean. Their nice to look at when you don't use the stove (like in the summer), but is that worth the extra $$?

IMO, I'd rather spend the $ toward the power back-up system, or pellets.

Keep us posted on your progress.

EDIT: Skier, forgot to ask....how many sq. ft are you trying to heat? Make sure the Castile has enough capacity to heat your place w/o having to run it on high all the time....better to get something that has a little extra heating capacity and run it on 1/2 or 3/4.

 

[Skier76]

I'm not quite sure what brand exactly. The one he showed us at the store appeared to be black and the t-fitting near the stove was a box, rather than a round one like the link you posted. I'm interested in seeing everything written out in the estimate. Hopefully, I'll have that this week. Worse case, we'll just drop by there this weekend.

*Edit:
Forgot about the log kit. The Mrs. was pretty excited about the log kit. Given how she's been cool about this whole process, I really don't have much of an issue with that. : )

 

[imacman]

I'm not quite sure what brand exactly. The one he showed us at the store appeared to be black and the t-fitting near the stove was a box, rather than a round one like the link you posted. I'm interested in seeing everything written out in the estimate. Hopefully, I'll have that this week. Worse case, we'll just drop by there this weekend.

*Edit:
Forgot about the log kit. The Mrs. was pretty excited about the log kit. Given how she's been cool about this whole process, I really don't have much of an issue with that. : )

Make sure the piping is a name brand (Selkirk, Duravent, etc.) Post some info about it here when you find out more.

Yep, gotta keep the better half happy with this kind of thing, especially if she was on the fence about even getting it....LOL
A log kit is a small price to pay.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

I'm not quite sure what brand exactly. The one he showed us at the store appeared to be black and the t-fitting near the stove was a box, rather than a round one like the link you posted. I'm interested in seeing everything written out in the estimate. Hopefully, I'll have that this week. Worse case, we'll just drop by there this weekend.

*Edit:
Forgot about the log kit. The Mrs. was pretty excited about the log kit. Given how she's been cool about this whole process, I really don't have much of an issue with that. : )

Make sure the piping is a name brand (Selkirk, Duravent, etc.) Post some info about it here when you find out more.

Yep, gotta keep the better half happy with this kind of thing, especially if she was on the fence about even getting it....LOL
A log kit is a small price to pay.

looks like he is looking at the set with the intake surrounding the exhaust if so its selkirk, pretty neat idea less obtrusive than having to cut a second hole for the intake. i saw it at the atlanta show a couple years back looks like a good system.

 

[Skier76]

I'll definately keep you all posted once I get the details.

I liked the idea of the exhaust/intake all in one. They said they may have to run more of a "chimney" if we did a regular exhaust/vent. With the dual pipe, it'll exit right out the wall, just like a dryer vent. Another reason was the air intake. Being that the stove in on the lower level, he was concerned about how much air the stove had to pull in when burning. When drawing air from the outside, that's no longer a concern.

 

[JustWood]

Multifuel stove.
This way you are not tied to buying just wood pellets.

 

[jtakeman]

Multifuel stove.
This way you are not tied to buying just wood pellets.

I agree 100%.

The Quadrafire Mt. Vernon AE is a multifuel unit.

jay

 

[Steve_in_NH]

Just to give you something to go by. I just had a 7200 watt generator installed in my garage (attached) and vented outside for $1400. I know that's a good price mainly because we had a friends dad install it. The gen itself was only $750 plus delivery.

 

[Skier76]

Thanks Steve! That seems like a really good price!

 

[Skier76]

Wow! Sticker shock here today. The estimate came in.......$4490.50 :bug: It's not itemized, so I can't tell what's what. But the stove was about $2700-$2800. I can't figure out where that extra $1700 is coming from. The run of pipe is going to be really short...back of the stove, up a few feet to the existing hole in the wall...then outside. How much is this dual vent stuff? I can't see us needing more than 10' with all the beds.

The estimate did include removal and disposal of the old chimney. Which I think I'll be doing myself.

I'll be calling them today to try to figure out why it's so darn high. $4500 is a lot of money for a weekend house. At that price, I could heat the place to 80 all winter with the electic baseboards and still come out way ahead.

 

[Wet1]

LOL, wait until you start getting bent over for pellets too! :cheese: Don't forget to add in the cost of back up power to run the pellet stove either...

I'd think hard about a coal or wood stove before doing pellets, and I'm not talking the $4k models either. And if this place isn't going to get used all the time, maybe just sticking with the electrical isn't such a bad idea. I would not pay $4k for a pellet stove (plus BU power and fuel) to heat a weekend ski cottage. Since this is a weekend get away place that's only going to be used a few weeks (or months at best) out of the year, I'd be looking for the best bang for the $. That includes low and mid level products, discounted items, or possibly used. I would also be looking for something that did not require power to operate.

 

[Skier76]

We were going to go wood....chimney wasn't up to snuff. The cost of redoing the chimney would probably eclipse this pellet estimate. See the link I posted in the first post of this thread.

 

[Wet1]

This isn't the Trump Plaza we're talking about here. Personally, I'd sweep the existing chimney, replace the single wall pipe inside the house, and pick up a nice used wood stove. I'm sure that existing system worked fine for many years, and I'd bet it would work perfectly fine for many more burning weekends. If you're really concerned about that chimney (it's SS so I wouldn't worry about it if it's structurally sound), go buy 15' of class A and replace what's already there, it would take a couple hours and not break the bank... very easy to install.

If you want to go pellet, pick up a cheap used pellet stove, pop a 3" hole in the wall and you're done. It's really easy to get carried away and upside down in these weekend get away cottages. IMO, keep it simple, cheap, and functional.

 

[Skier76]

Yep, I agree with what you're saying Wet1. Maybe a used woodstove would work just fine? I know that chimney isn't up to snuff (following the 10/2 rule)...but maybe it's worth a shot.

I guess a DIY pellet may be another option as well. The hole is already there for the existing chimney.

Yep, it easy to get upside down. I just can't justify the cost of this thing right now. I was thinking "maybe" we'd get a pellet for about $3k. Yes, pricey...but still semi doable. $4500 is just too much to justify.