Lopi Hopper fire

[peterpski666]

2008 Lopi Leyden

Had the worst happen, my wife came home to a smoke filled house. I had about a dozen bags of the good Maine Woods left, figured we had only a week or so left to burn for heat since it was put in last September. I had just done my monthly cleanout of the whole system the night before, and installed the new back plates (cast vs brick) The pellets apparently stacked up in the burnpot, which they were prone to do with bad pellets previously, ala Bad Maine Woods pellets, and went up the drop tube, along the auger and into the hopper, where it smogged pellets for a number of hours. Fortunately, the top lid didnt melt down and catch the rest of the house on fire, it was pretty much contained to the stove other than the 5-10 grand in smoke damage. A word to the wise, have an extinguisher near as I had to douse the hopper with glasses of water, and had no way to ensure the screw and other components were out sufficiently. Not sure what caused it, there was a lot of tar everywhere, could have been the new back plates.

Lopi wants the stove back to see what happened, will update as I find out more.

 

[BrotherBart]

Ouch!!

 

[imacman]

House can be fixed, stove replaced, etc. Most important thing is that no one got hurt.

Beyond that, I hope you had all your ducks in a row, as far as the insurance policy for the house & the stove.

 

[flamegrabber]

Sorry to hear about your incident. Very scary.

Please keep us updated on your findings.

And also, KEEP A FIRE EXTINGUISHER NEAR BY! I have 2 within 15 feet of our stove.

Let us know.

FG.

2008 Lopi Leyden

Had the worst happen, my wife came home to a smoke filled house. I had about a dozen bags of the good Maine Woods left, figured we had only a week or so left to burn for heat since it was put in last September. I had just done my monthly cleanout of the whole system the night before, and installed the new back plates (cast vs brick) The pellets apparently stacked up in the burnpot, which they were prone to do with bad pellets previously, ala Bad Maine Woods pellets, and went up the drop tube, along the auger and into the hopper, where it smogged pellets for a number of hours. Fortunately, the top lid didnt melt down and catch the rest of the house on fire, it was pretty much contained to the stove other than the 5-10 grand in smoke damage. A word to the wise, have an extinguisher near as I had to douse the hopper with glasses of water, and had no way to ensure the screw and other components were out sufficiently. Not sure what caused it, there was a lot of tar everywhere, could have been the new back plates.

Lopi wants the stove back to see what happened, will update as I find out more.

 

[Dr_Drum]

So the hopper lid gasket didn't help to prevent the smoke from exiting the hopper? That makes me nervous. Please keep us posted. Seems like that could happen with just about all auger designs if the pellets smolder instead of burn. There's no sensors or anything to prevent this?
Mike -

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

there is usualy a high limit snap disk on the auger tube that shuts down the auger when this happens. But that alone cant prevent a back fire. Any and all pellet stoves are suceptable to this, expecially if the pellet changes size and shape between brands. The fuel/feed ratio is somewhat common, but a long skinny pellet burns differently then a short fat one. Stoves need to be tuned when a major fuel source changes. I have alwas said its best to keep with the same brand as long as possible. Unfortuantly quality control within the same brand can be lacking. I think the fact that the stove didnt burn the house down would be considered success. Hopper fires are rare, but when they happen in a poorly designed stove can cost you your home, and your life. The lopi obviously doenst meet this catagory.

 

[peterpski666]

I consider myself lucky, it scorched the inside of the hopper up to the lid, but didnt get to the electrical components or bypass the asbestos strip other than smoke, if it would have gotten more air somehow, even a wierd reverse draft from the auger/auger slide ash falling into the stove, or the air wash firing up, it could have lit right up. I have pictures, just cant figure out how to link em. My insurance people see no issues with installation, venting, etc...so its wait and see. The stove did smoke long enough throughout the day for it to kill every battery in every smoke detector/CO2 in the house. Fortunately the dogs were in the basement that day.
Hmm, will try a pic...

 

[stoveguy2esw]

freak thing , burnbacks, usually takes more than one thing happening at the same time. most commonly an air leak in the feed system along with an unplanned shutdown. if the stove loaded up in the chute and "went out" without completely extinguishing the smoulder could climb the chute into the auger and hopper, but for that to happen a steady (although not large) supply of moving air is needed to perpetuate the smoulder, otherwise it would die of anoxia before making it that far back through the system. my guess (not having the stove in front of me to look at) would be an unplanned shutdown , along with the air leak , negative pressure in the house can increase the potential for this as it will "suck" the air through the feed system leak i referred to earlier, this is why im a proponent of OAK installations to help cut down on the negative pressure buildup.

Lopi i see asked for the unit back to inspect it, i dont blame them i would as well in that position, are they replacing the unit? or bringing it back to inspect it repair it and send it back to you? just curious. im sure they will work to ensure that you wont have this issue again. from what i hear Lopi is a respectable company.

 

[peterpski666]

Update on my Lopi. My dealer collected the scrap Lopi , shipped it to Washington, and about a month later was told by the dealer that a store credit was being issued to me for a stove of my choice, which was my desired outcome. No data or further cause and effect to date. My new stove is a Harmon XXV, my only issue now is that I have to relocate my new stove pipe. If you need a stove, Dave at Woodmans in East Wakefield is your man.

 

[crausch]

I am glad that things worked out for you in the end. Its also nice to hear that you didn't immediately jump ship with pellets stoves, but instead elected to get another. Is your house back to normal (I mean from the smoke damage and all)?

Let us know this coming season how you feel about the bottom feed system with the Harman stove compared to the Lopi? I almost bought a Lopi (Pioneer) but when the prices went up, I ended up with the Harman brand.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

freak thing , burnbacks, usually takes more than one thing happening at the same time. most commonly an air leak in the feed system along with an unplanned shutdown. if the stove loaded up in the chute and "went out" without completely extinguishing the smoulder could climb the chute into the auger and hopper, but for that to happen a steady (although not large) supply of moving air is needed to perpetuate the smoulder, otherwise it would die of anoxia before making it that far back through the system. my guess (not having the stove in front of me to look at) would be an unplanned shutdown , along with the air leak , negative pressure in the house can increase the potential for this as it will "suck" the air through the feed system leak i referred to earlier, this is why im a proponent of OAK installations to help cut down on the negative pressure buildup.

Lopi i see asked for the unit back to inspect it, i dont blame them i would as well in that position, are they replacing the unit? or bringing it back to inspect it repair it and send it back to you? just curious. im sure they will work to ensure that you wont have this issue again. from what i hear Lopi is a respectable company.

ever had such happen with 2auger system?

yes, as stated earlier any pellet stove can have a burnback if the right (or wrong in this case) things happen. usually it takes more than one thing happening at the same time , one of the things that in most cases has to happen is airflow back through the feed syatem and or hopper , in a burnback situation pellets which require air t burn are allowed to continue to burn if an airflow situation is there. this is why we and im sure other manufacturers stress good gasket maintenance the seal around the top of the hopper is for all intents "the cork in the bottle" its not there to make the lid shut quieter. a dirty neglected unit also is far more likely to have this type of failure that a well maintained one also. ash buildup restricts airflow , in top feeders this can cause pellets to "mound up" and block the chute combine that with less airflow through the normal exhaust pathway due to ash buildup and a leak in the feed system to allow heat to flow back through the dropchute full of pellets and there ya go. bottom feeders the same way , remember bottom feeders push fuel straight into the fire, in the case of these stoves a feed interruption like a bottom auger motor failure , combined with a plugged intake or exhaust and a leaky hopper will bring about the same result.

to our initial poster, in ragards to the hopper lid "melting" or drooping down and releasing the fire, a burnback ,even a very bad one, will not create nearly enough heat to bring this into play. when it comes to burnbacks , ive probably seen worse than any homeowner ever will (obviously created deliberately in our lab, kinda like ford or chevy crashing a new car to study what happens) nothing we ever did came remotely close to deforming a hopper or lid the fire just cannot get that hot with that limited a supply of air. what you went through was obviously not pleasant and though very rare industry wide, is not completely unheard of and its likely the worst thing you can experience with a pellet stove. its good to hear that the dealer and manufacturer are stepping up on getting your stove replaced i think you will be very happy with the XXV, its a great stove!

 

[peterpski666]

Yep, our house is back to normal, Servpro knows how to clean a house. We are still out our insurance deductable, probably forever. I will know how well I like the new stove as soon as I run it for a couple of weeks, the cleaning on the Lopi burning Maine Woods pellets was extreme.

 

[imacman]

....... the cleaning on the Lopi burning Maine Woods pellets was extreme.

I think it would be extreme burning those pellets in ANY stove.

 

[sparkydog00]

....... the cleaning on the Lopi burning Maine Woods pellets was extreme.

I think it would be extreme burning those pellets in ANY stove.

I can second that one.
Can't imagine any top loaders burning those pellets. The ash was far too great for that!

 

[watrskir]

freak thing , burnbacks, usually takes more than one thing happening at the same time. most commonly an air leak in the feed system along with an unplanned shutdown. if the stove loaded up in the chute and "went out" without completely extinguishing the smoulder could climb the chute into the auger and hopper, but for that to happen a steady (although not large) supply of moving air is needed to perpetuate the smoulder, otherwise it would die of anoxia before making it that far back through the system. my guess (not having the stove in front of me to look at) would be an unplanned shutdown , along with the air leak , negative pressure in the house can increase the potential for this as it will "suck" the air through the feed system leak i referred to earlier, this is why im a proponent of OAK installations to help cut down on the negative pressure buildup.

Lopi i see asked for the unit back to inspect it, i dont blame them i would as well in that position, are they replacing the unit? or bringing it back to inspect it repair it and send it back to you? just curious. im sure they will work to ensure that you wont have this issue again. from what i hear Lopi is a respectable company.

ever had such happen with 2auger system?

yes, as stated earlier any pellet stove can have a burnback if the right (or wrong in this case) things happen. usually it takes more than one thing happening at the same time , one of the things that in most cases has to happen is airflow back through the feed syatem and or hopper , in a burnback situation pellets which require air t burn are allowed to continue to burn if an airflow situation is there. this is why we and im sure other manufacturers stress good gasket maintenance the seal around the top of the hopper is for all intents "the cork in the bottle" its not there to make the lid shut quieter. a dirty neglected unit also is far more likely to have this type of failure that a well maintained one also. ash buildup restricts airflow , in top feeders this can cause pellets to "mound up" and block the chute combine that with less airflow through the normal exhaust pathway due to ash buildup and a leak in the feed system to allow heat to flow back through the dropchute full of pellets and there ya go. bottom feeders the same way , remember bottom feeders push fuel straight into the fire, in the case of these stoves a feed interruption like a bottom auger motor failure , combined with a plugged intake or exhaust and a leaky hopper will bring about the same result.

to our initial poster, in ragards to the hopper lid "melting" or drooping down and releasing the fire, a burnback ,even a very bad one, will not create nearly enough heat to bring this into play. when it comes to burnbacks , ive probably seen worse than any homeowner ever will (obviously created deliberately in our lab, kinda like ford or chevy crashing a new car to study what happens) nothing we ever did came remotely close to deforming a hopper or lid the fire just cannot get that hot with that limited a supply of air. what you went through was obviously not pleasant and though very rare industry wide, is not completely unheard of and its likely the worst thing you can experience with a pellet stove. its good to hear that the dealer and manufacturer are stepping up on getting your stove replaced i think you will be very happy with the XXV, its a great stove!

my classic bay insert does not have a seal on the pellet bin...im screwed if i get a hopper fire

 

[hossthehermit]

Wow, dragged this one outta the mothballs. Blow the dust off, she'll be just like a new one

 

[kenzmadie]

I have had my pellets pile up in the burn pot twice in my Lopi. Both times it occured right after a brief power interruption....and luckily I was home both times when it happened. The auger ran periodically and dumped pellets, without them burning, until there was a large pile of pellets in the stove. I unplugged the stove (because it just kept on dumpin') and manually cleaned the pellets out of the burn pot (they were smoldering at the bottom of the pile). I am glad I was there to see it happen and this does give me pause about running it when I am not home. Personally, I think my savings broke even last year as I used both oil hot water heat and the stove....what I saved in fuel oil, I bought in pellets. I love the heat and think I'll use the stove mainly in the evenings and weekends this year.

 

[curtthegreat]

I had a very small hopper fire last evening, I just had my original stove re-enstalled by the dealer, the house was cold so I turned it up to full bore. After about 20 minutes the wife noticed some smoke coming out behind the top of the hopper. I shut it down before anything had a chance to happen. After inspection I noticed the draft was pulled all the way out. Would this create too much air and force it up into the hopper? I know the dealer was running it for about a month to make sure it was working alright, and they don't burn the same pellets I do. The dealer was working on a whole other issue with the stove.

 

[humpin iron]

How was this stove vented? D/V-flat vent, goose neck (up and out), or full vertical vent???

 

[curtthegreat]

Full vertical 4" pipe about 14' up

 

[curtthegreat]

I should add that I burned 5 ton in this stove last year without any problems like this.

 

[imacman]

.....I just had my original stove re-enstalled by the dealer........I know the dealer was running it for about a month to make sure it was working alright, and they don't burn the same pellets I do. The dealer was working on a whole other issue with the stove.

Still somewhat interesting that you ran 5 tons through it last year w/ no problems, yet after getting it back from the dealer, and with the same vent system as before, you suddenly have a hopper fire.

Hmmm

 

[peterpski666]

Where was smoke coming from? the hopper lid or the physical back of the stove? Back panel of the stove sound like someone didnt close it up good elsewhere. A pre-hopper fire you could detect if you look inside and the ash is running up the pellet chute, usually it doesnt do that. Or burnt pellets at the hopper entry into the auger. I do not miss the Lopi so far, Harmon XXV now. Even burning last years old pellets is 80% less ash, my glass isnt dirty yet either after 3 weeks run time.

 

[curtthegreat]

Smoke was coming out behind the back side of the hopper lid. I thought I really liked this stove until lately, I love the looks of it but as they say, beauty is only skin deep.