MagnuM Countryside 3500P - Should heat a 1300sq ft house?

[techguy]

Hello everyone,

I've purchased a Countryside 3500p about 2 months ago and am struggling to find a way to make this stove save me money and am hoping you guys can lend me a hand.

So here are the spec's of the environment. I live in a ranch house that was built in 2002 with a fully finished walkout basement where the pellet stove sits. The house has great insulation and no drafts. I've also double checked all doors/ windows and have replaced the seals where needed. Roughly 1300 sq ft with a shop on the east side of it and a few trees throughout the yard, not much of a wind break. I'm in central wisconsin and today we had 32 degrees for the high.

I've tried 2 different brands of pellets:
- American wood fiber premium pellets from Menards (good heat, but high ash and saw dust)
- Indeck Energy out of Ladysmith, WI (Currently using, not getting very good heat but low ash and saw dust)

My issue is the stove seems to be pellet hungry but yet producing less heat than I would expect no matter what I try. There are 5 heat settings and 5 stirrer settings. I've been setting the heat to 3 and adjusting the stirrer based upon the type of pellets i'm burning. Right now I'm going through roughly 30lbs of pellets every 12 hours and the LP furnace still has to kick in even on warm days like today to keep the house at 68 degrees and while it doesn't kick on as often with the pellet stove going it still does kick on more than I'm thinking it should. I shut the stove down once a week for cleaning and double checking all the gaskets which all are fine which I can determine by the the flame the fire gives with the draft control pushed all the way in.

At 60 lbs every 24 hours I'll make it roughly 33 days per ton $200 plus LP still needing to run I guess I don't see how I'm saving any money or staying any warmer with the pellet stove in place.

So I guess my question is should I expect my pellet stove to heat my 1300 sq ft house and does it seem like my pellet stove is operating as efficiently as it should?

Please let me know if there is any additional information I can provide. I would love to see this stove stay in the house.

 

[webbie]

In a general sense, there are not too many variables. That is, the heat is being produced and is going somewhere.

Let's take some conservative figures - the pellets contain about 8,000 BTU per pound and the stove is 70% efficient at putting the heat into the house....that means you get 5600 BTU per hour per pound. You are burning 2 1/2 lbs per hour, which would make for about 15,000 BTU into the house.

Your LP furnace is probably over 80,000 BTU into the house per hour.

There is no magic involved here. If you feel you are spending too much or not staying warmer, then the value is for you to decide. LP is more reasonable in the midwest than here. Using our fuel calculator at:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/

It would look like pellets cost less than most LP.

As to the heat produced per hour...one way to compare is this. Most electric plug-in heaters produce about 5500 BTU on full. Do you think the stove puts out about as much as 2 1/2 of them? If so, the stove is working correctly.

 

[DBCOOPER]

Is that 1300 sq ft per floor or 650 on each?

 

[Bioburner]

That stove should have no issue heating that much home. This stove was designed to burn corn. There is a different burn pot now for pellets and allows removal of the stirrer but then needs tending of pot. The stove is a pain to keep clean and needs a daily high burn to help clean out the exchanger behind the firewall. A weekly total cleaning is a must. LBT really is a great procedure for this stove. I tried using Indeck last year and was not at all impressed.

 

[St_Earl]

it may be useful to explore methods of distributing the heat from the stove.
is it plenty warm in the "stove room" but cooler is other areas?
this is a near universal condition with pellet stoves.

i won't launch into fan set up just yet, as i only have experience with my single story house.
the principles remain the same regardless. but tailoring them to your specific house layout and aesthetic sense is what's needed.

i also have no experience with the challenges of a basement set up. there are folks who have been successful with a stove in the basement. but many more suggest having the pellet stove in the space you want heated.

knowing if your stove room has lots of heat will indicate a need to distribute that heat.
if that is the case, there will be plenty of helpful suggestions forthcoming from many folks.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

If you haven't setup the damper/draft on that stove to the manufacturer's provided figures and according the the procedure they specify then it is also possible that a lot of heat is going up the flue.

What is the source of your combustion air as it is possible that you really do not have a proper burn going on.and other things.

 

[chken]

My issue is the stove seems to be pellet hungry but yet producing less heat than I would expect no matter what I try. There are 5 heat settings and 5 stirrer settings. I've been setting the heat to 3 and adjusting the stirrer based upon the type of pellets i'm burning. Right now I'm going through roughly 30lbs of pellets every 12 hours and the LP furnace still has to kick in even on warm days like today to keep the house at 68 degrees and while it doesn't kick on as often with the pellet stove going it still does kick on more than I'm thinking it should. I shut the stove down once a week for cleaning and double checking all the gaskets which all are fine which I can determine by the the flame the fire gives with the draft control pushed all the way in.

At 60 lbs every 24 hours I'll make it roughly 33 days per ton $200 plus LP still needing to run I guess I don't see how I'm saving any money or staying any warmer with the pellet stove in place..

Assuming that a 3500P stands for a 35k btu stove, burning 30lbs in 12 hrs is only 2.5lbs/hr, or 20k btus. The stove can output far more. If the furnace is still kicking on, then that's a stove heat distribution issue. You don't know whether the stove can heat your house, since the heat is not getting up to the furnace thermostat enough to prevent it from coming on.

 

[Bioburner]

The 3500 pedestal is rated for 50,000btus. Draft is set by a slider in the exhaust path. Need to set it so the fire is fairly lazy. #5 fuel setting is for pellets only and a high fire daily to help clean the stoves exhaust paths.

 

[techguy]

Thanks for the responses everyone. 1300 sq ft includes both levels, so roughly 650sq ft. Air is currently being pulled from inside the house in the same room as the stove. I've heard of mixed results when piping the intake outside so I'm leaning away from that idea but if it'll help I'm totally game.

Heat distribution is by no means ideal so I have a fan in place to move the air up the stairs. The floors are warm up stairs which I would think would lead to some warmer air temps up stairs as well but I guess not. The room the stove resides is warm, roughly 78 degrees so not crazy hot.

I've gone through the manual a couple times to make sure I have the damper control set correctly and I think I've found the sweet spot, i don't end up with a black glass and the flame isn't crazy but active with a few little embers flying up. I'll back it off a bit further tonight to achieve a lazier flame.

While I'm back in town I'll grab some different brands of pellets as well for some heat output testing.

 

[Bioburner]

Maybe check out a elevator or farmer for some corn. Buying it bagged at a feed store now is almost criminal high.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

You are experiencing about .0.346 total house air exchanges per hour. Be my guest and find a good heat loss calculator and determine how much of an increase in heat loss that amounts to. I understand there is one at builditsolar.com . Then you can make up your own mind about where you draw your combustion air from.

Now what were those issues you heard about?

 

[chken]

Thanks to Bioburner, now I know that your stove is rated for 50k btus. As I wrote before, you're burning 2.5lbs/hr, and your stove is rated for about 6lbs/hr. So, you're not taxing your stove at all. It could put out a lot more heat if you want it to.

You need to burn more pellets if you want more heat.

Of course, before you do that, you need to make sure your combustion is correct. Obviously, I don't know your stove, but I've never heard a stove wanting a lazy flame. It's the opposite. You're correct, you don't want a black, sooty window. Embers flying is fine, as long as they're not pellets. Perhaps, you need more air. Get it nice and yellow.

 

[Madcodger]

You are experiencing about .0.346 total house air exchanges per hour.

Smokey, how did you calculate that from the info provided?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Now about the floor plan and getting heat to the upper level.

Most folks have to contend with about a 10 degree temperature difference between floors, this usually means someone in the house isn't happy.

One way to even this out is to make certain the upper floor isn't loosing as much heat as it is with the 10 degree temperature difference (yes I know this sounds strange, but things like windows and air sealing [yet another reason for considering where your combustion air is being drawn from]) )and that nothing is preventing decent air circulation.

This is a very building specific issue.

 

[Bioburner]

This stove was designed for corn and that's why the recommendation of a lazyer flame. Corn is more dense then pellets and btus are according. To much air through corn and can flameout and not give the not so great exchanger time to pull the heat off.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Smokey, how did you calculate that from the info provided?

It was calculated using a best guesstimate of the CFM of the combustion blower on the stove and figuring that the ceilings were on average 8 feet high and the total floor area was 1300 square feet.

This figure is specific to his house and I figure fairly close (close enough to open some eyes), btw the recommended minimum air exchange rate is also somewhere in that range before a heat recovery air to air exchanger would be needed for proper ventilation. Likely under pressure via a pressure door his exchange rate is a lot higher and under normal pressure differences it is also higher depending upon how well his house is air sealed. The better the seal the lower the air leak rate and also the more important where the combustion air comes from.

 

[St_Earl]

try blowing air down into the basement at floor level or down through any vents you may possibly have.
said air will displace the warm air and it will escape upwards (if a path not interfered with by the blowing fan is available)
tried and true method.
if you have only a stairwell as a path, then a directed fan like a vornado blowing down as close to the steps as possible will displace the air up the upper part of the well.
if you by chance have an open vent or open cold air return grate (not ducted into a furnace) then just place a box fan on that blowing down.
it *will* force the warm air up if you leave the basement door open.

that's the idea. exactly the best path is something you can determine.

this will work far better than trying to blow or suck the warm air up.

feeding the cooler air into the space will leave no option other than for the warm air in the space to be displaced. (upward if there is a path)

i have a fan blowing into my stove room from the cooler part of the house, and the warm air rushes back out under the lintel.

 

[Madcodger]

It sounds like multiple issues are at play here...

First, using inside air for combustion means that you are, to a large degree, helping to turn your well-insulated, non-drafty house into the exact opposite. My question above to Smokey was to see if we were thinking the same thing, and I think we are. In effect, by not having a source of outside air for combustion you are using the stove to pull in cold, outside air at a rate that almost equals the amount of air one would want to see exchanged for use by household occupants (not the stove) when a stiff breeze is blowing outside (about 20 mph, as I recall, on all sides). Energy auditors use a blower door to achieve this, and you're doing it with your stove! Not good, because that lost air must be re-heated for the house to feel comfortable and this is in addition to any normal air exchanges (heat losses). I've no idea where you heard "mixed results" on using outside air for combustion, but it's really the only great way to supply combustion air for a pellet stove. Anything else is pulling in excess cold air that must itself be heated, decreasing the stove's ability to heat your home. It's not as if that air pulled in is going straight to the stove - it's actually just displacing the warm, moister air you just used for combustion and pumped outside - a vicious, expensive cycle that is prevented by an OAK (outside air kit).

Next, I think St Earl is onto something. If your basement is 78 you have excess heat there, and need to increase convective flow to distribute it. As a first step, why not try the small fan at top of basement stairs idea, blowing down the stairs at tread level? Also if you have supplies and returns in the basement where the 78' air is, you can try running the blower (only) of the LP furnace. However, that can produce mixed results depending on several factors, including how well your ducts are sealed and insulated. But it's worth a try.

Finally, if the stove is designed for corn it may not be burning as efficiently as possible. But as Webbie's note highlighted, you are producing heat and it's going somewhere! Either out the vent, or into the room. I doubt your efficiency is any less than he noted in his post, so my guess is that the big culprits are as noted in first two paragraphs above: You are having to re-heat much more air than is necessary (an efficiency problem), and you are not effectively distributing the heat you do produce (a problem with most basement installs, but you may be able to improve it).

 

[techguy]

I'll get an OAK installed when the weather warms up a bit. -31 here tonight with a high of -18 tomorrow.

Also, corn is cheaper than pellets are around here so I'm going to grab a few bags of corn from the feedmill and give that a test and if all goes well I'll talk to a few large farmers in the area for corn.

Thanks for the tips everyone!

 

[Bioburner]

If I had remembered that this thread was going I could have taken some pictures of what the flame should look like burning corn. Serviced a stove yesterday that has been in service since 2003. Only thing not having been replaced is the auger motor by some miracle.