My Wiseway Experience NH

[Andre0170]

Ok folks here it is, my Wiseway experience.

Situation: Long time wood burner tired of the hassle and mess. Concerned about interruptions in electricity. Wiseway seemed to meet the need. 1700 sq ft. Multi-level house. Interior chimney which exits at the highest point of the roof - excellent draft. 24ft chimney lined with 4" stainless pipe to the thimble, 3 ft 90 degree horizontal into the room, 2nd 18" 90 degee vertical to bring it down to the stove. House features tight construction that required opening of windows often during the winter when using my old VT Castings - too hot!

Dealer in OR was great to work with. Timely, informational, competent in providing info to get my Class A chimney set-up correct.

Fuel: 100% hardwood pellets, <1% ash. Also 80/20 blend, <1% ash. 100% Softwood not easily found.

Stove: After discussing with dealer my situation and fuel types available, opted for the GW2014 model with the window, and with a modified burn basket suitable for hardwood.

Performance: (Note: I REALLY wanted this stove to work. Watched online customer review vids and did plenty of reading. No pre-judging here). Your situation and setup will vary from mine, but for my situation, the stove, while good, is simply not quite suitable for this set up. On a clean, fresh start, stove will fire to 650-700 degrees as advertised, no problem. Stays cooking along at that temp (or lower as needed) for about 4 hours. At that time, ash begins to clog the primary burn basket and secondary burn plate with increasing frequency requiring manipulations of the burn basket with (tool of choice: wire coat hanger), and a quick open/close of the secondary burn plate to clear any collected ash. Some ash also collects in the bottom exhaust tube. Failing to manipulate the burn chambers as above will ultimately result in a clogged primary burn basket, secondary burn chamber, and a reducing temperature. While this is to be expected to some degree (the Wiseway after all IS a WOOD STOVE that burns pellets), in my setup, the longer the stove is in operation, the more frequent the manipulation must be to keep the temp constant. This, and the somewhat short (relatively speaking) duration of constant temperature, is a bit disappointing for my specific setup. Approaching 10 - 12 hours of operation, manipulation is frequent at every 40 minutes or so in order to maintain a constant temp.

Since the stove is so easy to start, I have helped alleviate this problem by simply shutting the stove down after 12 hours, and with a small shop vac, cleaning out the burn chambers and exhaust tube. Upon relight, the process starts over: 4'ish hours of trouble free heat with minimal supervision, followed by burn basket manipulation of increasing frequency until the 10 to 12 hour mark is reached.

While this is not particularly troubling to me considering that I work from home, the frequency in which I would have to manipulate my old VT Castings, and the pain-in-the-butt factor of dealing with cord wood, it does pose some timing challenges with regard to overnight burns, or burns when I am not in attendance. Starting from a "clean" stove too early in the afternoon or evening results in a situation where the stove simply will not perform hot enough, long enough, to sufficiently heat throughout the night.

Starting in the evening is better, but does require a couple of mid-night checks in order to have heat above 300 degrees by 6 AM.

Unfortunately in my situation, even with a clean start, the stove will not perform sufficiently without manipulation for longer than 4 hours. It WILL continue to burn, but at a steadily decreasing temp.

As for heating, I can say that my VT Castings Encore (the smaller unit) would put out more BTU's than we could handle. My house was easily 80 degrees all winter and hotter if we let it. On the coldest of days (-10 to -15 below), house was still 70-75 or better.

In comparison, Wiseway at full throttle on a -10 degree day kept the house at a comfortable 68, but only until the performance began to suffer. At that time, manipulations of increasing frequency (as noted above) did help.

Bottom line, if you are in a similar setup as mine, and can be in attendance with the stove during its burn cycle (for my setup 10-12 hours at wide open - that is, damper shut and daisy wheel door going from closed to open to completely off toward the end of a cycle to keep the air flow up), and don't mind an increasing frequency of manipulation, you're good. If you need to set-it-and forget it while you go to work or go for an 8 hr sleep, make sure to really do your homework first. Chimney, fuel, location of stove in your home, burn basket, etc will have an effect. I have not tried with a 100% softwood blend yet, but did use the 80/20 which resulted in slightly lower temps and similar ash build up. Feel free to reach out - I love the potential of this stove, but it will not be suitable for all applications.

 

[Lake Girl]

Appreciate the review on the real-life residential use of the Wiseway.

 

[millerized]

If he's still using the perforated metal secondary, drill out half the holes a bit bigger. Gary has been good answering questions when he gets a chance to answer questions. He's answered that at least once on several other forums. The stove was designed for mostly softwoods of the PNW, and he originally had issues with his stoves being used on the east coast...since we mostly use hardwoods. The type of pellet plays a huge impact in the secondary burn chamber operation and how fast it 'drops' down into the ash chamber.

His design is one that played heavily into my thought process while building mine. My current design shares very little outside of the gravity concept, but my secondary burn plate needs 'tuned' for the type of pellet just like his does.
The crap pellets I'm using now clog up my secondary unless I run it at a very, very low temperature - hence a low feed rate. I get the exact same clogging with these O'Malley hardwood pellets....but absolutely none on my original 1/4" secondary with a bag of Equine Pine horse bedding.
I started out with my secondary perforations at 1/4". Right now it's up to 5/16 on all of mine, and my secondary design uses nearly a 50% open area perforated steel. Lots of places for the ash to fall through, but it doesn't. Poor pellet burn.
Here's the diagram of the steel: .

If you're liking the stove as a whole, drill out a few (like every 3rd) hole in the secondary plate. If it works, try every other. Or, try a different type of pellets. His design can be made to work, but it will require a bit of tinkering.

 

[millerized]

Oh, another thing....and right from his product site:
http://www.wisewaypelletstoves.com/wiseway-pellet-stoves-about-fuel-pellets.htm
"CLEARING YOUR SECONDARY BURN PLATE IS A MUST WHILE BURNING HARDWOOD PELLETS."

 

[xtremraptor]

I also just purchased a Wiseway this year. Same model, GW2014, without the window.

Like the original poster I too had high hopes, but have been struggling with the stove too.

I live in northern Vt near the lake

My set-up is a little different. I have 6" pipe directly off the top of the stove and straight out of the roof. 9' of metalbestos pipe into 6' of standard black pipe at top. I also put a T right off the top of the stove with a cap. This way I can get too the top of the stove for cleaning because you will get fly ash build up right at the top angle where the gauge is. I had to ad this piece after going out and giving the cap a tap cause I thought it was plugged. Stuff from inside the pipe fell down and clogged the top of the stove pouring smoke into the house cause it had no where else to go

I have fresh air feeding into the bottom 3" side port. Vent comes in from the ceiling through an outside eve and then drops too the stove port. Thought the drop would help add to the draft force, I may just go straight through the wall beside the stove and see if the shorter more direct run helps.
Before adding the fresh air I couldn't get the stove too stay over 400 for more than an hour or so. After adding the fresh air I could get it stay up for 4-6 hours.

Just like the OP I have issues getting really high end pellets. High ash content, <1+/-, and pretty dirty in the bag, a lot of dust ad small particles. I actually have too sift the pellets before running them though the stove. The excess small particles eventually build up and clog the burn chamber so air cant pass through the pellets and burn them properly. I did get all three blends though, 100% softwood (boreal pellets), 100% hardwood (curran pellets), and a 80/20% mix (curran pellets). It will burn all 3, but definitely performs better on the softwoods. However the blend only losses about 50-75 degrees and burn a little slower lasting a bit longer, not much though. blends were slightly cheaper so I guess all in all a better value since loss isn't that great.

The struggle has come from consistency for sure. I also get the same kind of burn results as the OP. Burn basket eventually clogs and becomes a constant job fiddling with it. After a cleaning I can get a good day or two of good performance but then it will tend too start falling off. The best I have gotten out of it is about 4 days of consistently good temps. the first couple of days I actually had to open the draft too cool it down. It would peg at 700 and stay there (softwood pellets). When it burns this good the ash content at the burn basket doesn't seem to affect it as bad. This was a very cold week too, windy and single digits all week, so sub zero for the most part. I believe (just my opinion) that this helped a lot with the draft, cold coming in and heat rising fast cause of outside temps.

I really thought I had it figured out and kind of workable till this weekend. It pretty much fell on its face. No draft, horrible temps, crappy burning. It has been a fight for the past day and a half, and I've been up half the night tending it to keep it going, skipping work today to get it going. Trying everything I can throw at it, poking the burn chamber, wriggling the tray, disconnect the outside fresh air supply, everything short of throwing it out in the driveway, glad I quit smoking this year, grrrrrrr!! I even added to the top of the chimney run yesterday thinking maybe I needed to get the cap above the roof line (told ya trying everything)

Actually cleaning this thing thoroughly is kind of a pain too. The second elbow right behind the pellet feed area is almost impossible to get at. The bends make it hard to get a vac hose down there. If the other two spots I can see get build up I have to believe this spot does too. I'm gonna turn he whole thing into a vac hose today and see if that works. Stick the hose in the bottom, plug all other holes, and open the top. Turn the vac on, tap the sides, and hope for the best.

I really like this stove and love the no power part so I'm not giving up yet, but damn close.

I'm not convinced it is designed to be used tis far north with such fluctuating temps. When it works she's great, but its finicky about it

If I can't get it figured out then it's back too wood next year. I'll just put this in the garage and use it there when I'm in there. Perfect for that!

 

[xtremraptor]

If he's still using the perforated metal secondary, drill out half the holes a bit bigger.

new tray is slotted. mine is anyway

 

[millerized]

I also just purchased a Wiseway this year. Same model, GW2014, without the window.
If I can't get it figured out then it's back too wood next year. I'll just put this in the garage and use it there when I'm in there. Perfect for that!

I wish the manufacturer would step in here. I've seen him on several other forums, but I don't think he's 'here'. Gary? Are you out there? Worst case, give him a call or stop on over on the Facebook page and ask. (541) 946-8108

I'm basing this whole section below on my design, (not a trained professional, mileage might vary, objects in mirror just passed you) but....

....since there's no blower, it is mandatory that they have a good draft. Flow is everything on something that doesn't force air in on it's own. Outside air kit, chimney pipe nearly as straight a shot as you can get it....they gotta have their air, and they can't suck in more if it ain't going out fast enough.

That said, forcing a 3" feed into a 6" pipe might not be helping to get that draft required. Kinda like washing a car with a 6" diameter garden hose hooked to a normal 1/2" faucet. You'll get water, but you won't have enough velocity to move the dirt or suds off your car very fast. You'll still get it clean, but it's gonna take a looooong time. In this case, if I understand it, more is not better.

Again, I'm basing this on my current design. I know that running NO pipe, as well at testing it with 3 to 5' of 3" pipe does NOT work for mine...not enough draft. Tests didn't really start working until I got to about 8' of the 3". Running 10 feet worked perfectly on a straight shot out the living room ceiling...hot enough to roast you. I'm running 13' now to get it out of the basement because of the 45's and the 90 at the "T" outside. With it just below the peak of the roof, it turns into a blast furnace unless I throttle the outside air gate a bit. I'm kinda leery about adding the extra 2' to put it above the peak....might wake up to a puddle of steel in the basement. I've been told that running 4", because of both the length and the combined 180 degree worth of bends, would be the better solution. But, I've got the 3", and it currently works. The new burner I'm working on now may need the 4"...I'll find that out when I'm done building it. Definitely going to be a bit bigger stove.

I also have no idea if current draft measurement (number I always see here is, what, .5in water?) and how that plays out on your install. I don't know, unless you get the 6" heated enough to keep a draft, if you're keeping it hot enough to flow that .5 (or whatever the number is). I'm guessing that you probably replaced a 'normal' stove with this, and that's the reason for the 6"? (it was there, didn't want to buy more/new?) Was this installed professionally, or a DIY job? (nothing wrong with DIY...I even rebuild my own CNC...I hate handing other people money...unless it's something I either don't have the time for, or it's WAY out of my league...WAY out). Did the draft get measured with this stove installed, or the previous one?

I hope you find the answers to your questions, as none of us can offer more than possible solutions. Good luck.

 

[millerized]

new tray is slotted. mine is anyway

Good to know. I'm guessing about a 5/16" width or maybe a shade bigger slot?

Remember, with hardwood pellets the ash will bridge the secondary burn tray. The pellets don't burn fast enough that it won't unless the slot/holes are big enough to dump it all in the ash tray. Of course, that kinda negates the need for a secondary,( and possibly reduces some of the heat generated). Softwood burns to ash much faster, and the hardwood pellets will bridge the slots/holes long before they break down fast enough to fall through.

One of my next attempts at a hardwood secondary will be either expanded metal grating or stainless mesh. Right now, mine works great just knocking the ash off the tray once in the morning, and once when I get home from work. It'll damn near fill to the bottom of the burn chamber (nearly 3"), but knocking it down takes care of any issues.

The Wiseway, as it is, it's definitely not a complete hands off stove on hardwood pellets. Based on his video's and narratives, I'm pretty sure it wasn't designed for them, but it can be made to run them with a bit of fiddling, and bit of daily maintenance.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

I don't think any of the stoves are without some form of fiddling being required.

We have to clear the fire pot on our little Whit every 6-8 hours as it will choke up with an ash biscuit.

There is always a caviat somewhere.

All part of the joys of heating with stoves other than NG, oil and electric.

A way of life.


Snowy

 

[xtremraptor]

So after an extensive cleaning she's up and running again. Maxed out the gauge in fifteen minutes, had to open the draft all the way up again. 1 hr later with the draft wide open i'm holding 650, burning the 80/20 blend pellets. see how long it lasts

The vacuum idea worked well. Blocked off all the bottom holes except the primary hole. Shoved the vac tube in there and blocked that off around hose and closed the draft. Turned the vac on and banged the hell out of the stove. Let the vac run for about fifteen minutes before turning it off. Definitely worked cause there was a pile of ash in the bottom of the stove after I was done that wasn't there before. Good size pile too and I must have caught some of it during the process so there must have been quite a bit in there. I haven't been able to figure out how to clean it otherwise. almost impossible to get anything down through there

I might have a welder/fabricator friend of mine hook me up with some kind of access door right above the pellet chamber so I can get to that area better

Right now it is performing great, I love that sound. I have had to shake the secondary and ash tray a couple times

 

[xtremraptor]

A look at my setup. Been two hours now and I still have it running wide open draft and holding 600-650
Sorry for the disaster, that area was under remodel till this came




This is the build up that happens at the top bend, it does the same thing at the bottom bend where the draft is. Kind of hard to see
I can only assume it does the same thing at every bend but can't see or get to the other two


my air intakes. the blocked off one comes down from the ceiling, the new one comes through the wall low and right too the port.
so far the lower port is working very well, I hope so I would prefer that one


burn chambers. I find keeping the vent open helps prolong the ash build up. Must be because it pulls in some air for the burn


still does eventually build up though. See the dark stuff in the basket not glowing

 

[xtremraptor]

That said, forcing a 3" feed into a 6" pipe might not be helping to get that draft required. Kinda like washing a car with a 6" diameter garden hose hooked to a normal 1/2" faucet. You'll get water, but you won't have enough velocity to move the dirt or suds off your car very fast. You'll still get it clean, but it's gonna take a looooong time. In this case, if I understand it, more is not better.

That thought did cross my mind and I still haven't ruled it out. However the stove (GW2014) calls for Class A 6" pipe. Salesman told me this and its on the website.

I'm guessing that you probably replaced a 'normal' stove with this, and that's the reason for the 6"? (it was there, didn't want to buy more/new?) Was this installed professionally, or a DIY job? (nothing wrong with DIY...I even rebuild my own CNC...I hate handing other people money...unless it's something I either don't have the time for, or it's WAY out of my league...WAY out). Did the draft get measured with this stove installed, or the previous one?

Well it hasn't "replaced" the standard stove yet. That is still set-up in the hot room (another story) to help heat on really cold nights and days. This is supposed to do the job but hasn't been reliable enough yet.
Reason for he 6" pipe is like I said above, but yeah, I did already have it.
The install was a DIY. Of course. brought up country, I screw it, nail it, bend it, plug it, erect it, poke it, and stroke it around here. occasionally I bang it too
If I don't know how to do it ... I research it (including the poking it part ... friggin' internet)

Besides, I enjoy a good challenge, if the wife had her way this would have went back already. I see the potential but just gotta figure out the puzzle. Obviously it works but the consistency is a bear

 

[millerized]

That thought did cross my mind and I still haven't ruled it out. However the stove (GW2014) calls for Class A 6" pipe. Salesman told me this and its on the website.

Another note to put in my 'file'. Didn't figure that stove would pull that much, but if they say use it...then continue to use it.

I'm the same way with challenges. I couldn't stomach the cost of either one...so I decided to build my own.

Good luck figuring it out. Keep the fingers off the hot parts, and you'll do well!

 

[TonyVideo]

It would seem to me the hard straight edge bends definitely would make it hard to clean. Why not curve them or have bends such that you could stick a flue Bush through the entire length. It would currently never make those bends. I am sure the design is such to keep as much heat in the unit to disapate it. I thought about getting one for a garage that is not connected to the house.

 

[xtremraptor]

So I know I'm kinda hijacking this thread. apologies to the OP but as long as the info gets out there it's all good I think.
Hopefully some of his can help him too, if he hasn't given in already.
My location is close enough to his that the results should be similar for the region.

Anyway, I would like to give an update on how the stove has been running...... AMAZINGLY!!
I have not had one serious issue all week. Apparently it's making me eat my words.
No shutting it down mid week to clean it.
No smoldering cold temps.
No back drafts of smoke into the house.

I think what cleared it up was a combination of intake and chimney length change.

By shortening the intake from the long drop through the ceiling to a straight shot in from the outside wall there is a much stronger intake pull. When sliding the secondary tray out for clearing you can see some sparks from the tray get pulled back into the stove. When pulling the ash tray out to empty it you can feel the air pull through the vent.
I did make a modification to the intake though. On the port itself there is a piece of metal welded over about 1/3rd of the hole, I REMOVED THIS, allowing more air in and up through the secondary and primary burn chambers. It's only tack welded in 2 or 3 spots so I used a hack saw to cut it off. This metal plate I'm assuming is to catch burning pellets from falling on the floor when you pull the secondary tray out to clear it if you do not have a fresh air duct hooked to it. An occasional pellet will fall down into there from time to time. Since I used aluminum ducting for the intake there I have no worry of the embers falling to the floor. I also have a fire proof pad under the stove to keep anything hot from landing on the floor.

Another note, I found that by having a good fresh air intake through the port there is a lot less need for fiddling with the pellets in the burn chamber itself. The pellets still crust up on the side that faces the primary opening, but air comes up through the bottom and burns the pellets. Instead of having to poke at the pellets every hour or so it can go most of the day with no attention. However you do still have to poke at it eventually because the crust will carry farther back through the basket with time. Two or three times a day is a lot better than every hour or less

For the chimney I added another two foot section to the top. Where as I thought the chimney was run long enough to get above the main roof line, apparently I was wrong. Most of my wind comes from the other side of the house, over the peak, and to the front of the house. Pipe must have been short enough it was still in that air swirl you get on the backside of the peak. This will cause draft problems by actually trying to push air down the pipe. I'm sure there is lots of talk about this in this forum because it doesn't just pertain to this stove but all stoves working on natural draft in general.
A pic of air current


I do also sift my pellets. This is something that I think caused me a problem at one point. There's dust and small pieces in the bag that were clogging up the pellets in the burn chamber not allowing air to get through the pellets. It's not constant, but every 2 or 3 days it seemed like it built up in the bottom of the hoper enough that it started working it's way down into the chamber and affecting the burning process.
This is probably due just to the pellets I'm getting. I'm sure not every brand is the same. As a matter of fact I got a couple bags of pellets from Lowes just to see quality difference and they were a lot worse as far as particles. The pellets were also broke up a lot more most likely causing the particles.
This is the sifter I made


This is the stuff I'm getting out of every bag. About a handful each time. Doesn't seem like much but it builds up


I'm finally becoming happy with the stove. It's been a pain but i'm getting it figured out.

TIPS: (wont be the same for everyone)
-don't wait till the last moment to install the stove. it will most likely need some tweeking to get it to burn well. it also needs to be burnt off outside to get rid of any paint curing fumes that might happen
-pellet quality I think is gonna be important with this stove. although it will burn 100% softwood, 100% hardwood, or any blend I don't think you'll ever have good luck with anything from a Lowes, Home Depot, or Tractor Supply (my area only probably). try to keep your ash content as low as possible. it will help extend cleaning times
-be prepared to have to bring in cool fresh air. may not need it, could run just fine for you without. my situation needed it and made it perform much better. short, straight, and low seemed to be the best set up for me.
-put a "T" at the top of the stove for cleaning purposes. this will allow you to get the ash build up at the top easier.
-clean at least once a week. a good thorough cleaning will keep it running smooth and hot. make sure you get that second and third angle somehow. it's hard but not impossible

I have to clean it today so I'll take pics and put that up here later.

Hope this helps

 

[JKC]

Andre0170 and xtremraptor now that you have had the Wiseway for almost a year, what do you think of the stoves?

 

[Spupilup]

JKC,
I've been using my Wiseway for about a month and am very pleased. Fortunately, right after my stove was delivered back in May I was able to purchase enough Okanagan Doug Fir and Platinum (spruce) for the season. Never the less, during the month of November I've experimented with hardwood pellets just to confirm my decision to go with softwoods. I've burned hardwood pellets from Home Depot, Tractor Supple, Still River, New England and Barefoot. None of them came close to the Okanagans.

With the hardwood pellets I ran into the same issues as the other two owners. Hardwood pellets just take too long to go to ash for these stoves. As a result, you get buildup in the primary burn basket and the secondary burn tray. This can be managed with regular fiddling with those two parts of the stove but when left alone, overnight, temps drop to 300 or below and creosote builds like mad. That further complicates matters.

Burn softwood pellets and the stove just runs. Left alone overnight, my stove, with the Okanagan Platinums, in the morning is still cooking at 400 degrees. A couple of minutes with a nail puller to help the pellets descend into the primary, a 12" drill bit to poke the pellets in the primary and clearing the secondary burn tray and you're back in business with temps well in excess of 500 degrees.

 

[JKC]

Has anyone made this stove work with hardwood pellets like Somersets? Are there a softwood pelllets in the Illinois area.
Thanks.

 

[Spupilup]

On the Wiseway Google Groups forum there are those that have had success. I just posted here because, from my experience, if you can get them, softwood pellets will make it a whole lot easier to live with this stove.

I heat with wood, exclusively so I guess I should count my blessings that there are two dealers who carry Okanagan in my area. The Barefoots were by far the best hardwood pellet I tried but there was more tending to the stove and more clean up to be done than with the Okanagans.