Napolean NPS45 ..is it dead?

[celticpiping]

Moved into this house earlier this year, & the prior owner bought the stove new, and told me the stove is in it's third season this year.
Started using it in the fall this year, bought good pellets, it noticed seemed to need
...coaxing: meaning, it would shut off after developing a fire, and burning down the pellets in the burn pot.
I would need to unplug/re-plug to get it going again...It also would show a flashing light, either #2 or #3
It seemed to be quite finicky as to when it would maintain a fire.
I took off the exhaust blower, cleaned things up & replaced the gasket.
I gave it a good general cleaning..but didn't seem to help.
It almost seems to have gradually gone downhill: needing more & more 'restarts' to get it going.
Over the past few weeks, it will not maintain a fire at all: We'll start it, it will feed pellets, light them, burn a bright fire, blower fires up...then flashing lights begin & it's dead until we unplug/re-plug.

Today, I tested the vacuum switch with the blow-method.
It tested fine(click check)
I took the intake blower off, and blew it out real good: also checked the exhaust flue for obstruction,
Also made sure the over-temp wasn't tripped.
Re-connected wires going to vacuum switch, blowers, board...to ensure connection.
I was going to test for the 5VDC +\- to the vacuum switch, so put meter leads on it, plugged stove in, and the GREEN light came on for about 2 seconds, then the stove shut off completely...no lights, no button operation..
Unplugging - re-plugging would only serve to reset & it would do it again.
I thought perhaps either the vacuum switch needed to be screwed onto the body for grounding...maybe? and/or the door needs to be on the unit for some reason...Soooo, put switch back in place, removed meter leads, put left door back on, and the stove did the SAME thing I just described: and that's the state it's in.
I tried letting it sit for a good 45 minutes, but no help.
I am beginning to suspect the control board might be toast...

Thoughts fellas?

Rich

 

[celticpiping]

Update: I just chatted with the prior owner..he said he thought they had to use 'Manual' mode vs Automatic...
I walked over, put it in Manual, hit the On switch, and it's running with #2 light flashing...
hmmmm

update#2 - unplugged, let sit for 15 seconds or so.. plugged in, and powered up: indications are normal with green light flashing & setting #1 light on, pellets dropping.
We'll see...

 

[celticpiping]

ok, pellets came down(about 1/4 full) it lit em up..
Pellets began burning gradually more..
Heater blower has kicked in, and at the moment, it's working fine...
ok, took this pic of the burn-pot, and also just looked at the panel lights...
#2 is flashing... I'm thinking it's not supposed to..

 

[celticpiping]

Yeah, it looks like it's right back to the way it was..

The burn pot is burning down, with no pellets dropping
the #2 light is flashing, and air is getting cooler..
;(
Also, the auger feed and temp buttons do nothing.
It's like it's locked up..

man..so frustrating

 

[johneh]

First off do you have a manual ?
If not here is one
(broken link removed to http://www.woodlanddirect.com/site/info-links/manual/355_NPS45_NPI45.pdf)
If #2 flashing has something to do with vacuum
If # 3 flashing it is low limit switch
Good luck

 

[celticpiping]

First off do you have a manual ?
If not here is one
(broken link removed to http://www.woodlanddirect.com/site/info-links/manual/355_NPS45_NPI45.pdf)
If #2 flashing has something to do with vacuum
If # 3 flashing it is low limit switch
Good luck

I sure do..
Q. My heater stopped and the #2 red light (feed light) is flashing?
A. The flashing red light indicates a vacuum switch alarm. There are several issues that may cause this alarm.
1. The main door is open.
2. The ash drawer is open.
3. The vacuum switch is defective.
4. The combustion fan is not running.
5. The vent system is plugged.

 

[smwilliamson]

#2 has too do with the vac switch try disconnecting the wires that go to the switch and connecting them together with something conductive like a paper clip. It should run okay. If it does you have to figure out what the issue is. Did you remove the two back panels inside the stove? I bet you the left side is full. If everything is clean and the vent is clean the pressure switch may have a leak in the diaphragm and is cutting out as heat builds in the stove (positive pressure). Lastly, inspect the wires going to the vac switch and make sure one hasn't got cooked being too close to the exhaust, it will reduce continuity and cause the controller to kick out. When the vac switch rolls out the power to the stove is killed if the low limit switch is still open. If the stove is warm, the stove will run until the low limit opens again then power will be killed. Unplug and plug in is the only way to reset the board. I doubt the vac hose is clogged as the #2 would kick in before the pellets dropped, so it's either a dead wire or leaking diaphragm.

 

[Lake Girl]

Possible that door gaskets are bad which would interfere with vacuum created in the firebox. Dollar bill test? Bill or paper closed in door. If it can be removed easily, need to replace the gaskets...

 

[celticpiping]

#2 has too do with the vac switch try disconnecting the wires that go to the switch and connecting them together with something conductive like a paper clip. It should run okay. If it does you have to figure out what the issue is. Did you remove the two back panels inside the stove? I bet you the left side is full. If everything is clean and the vent is clean the pressure switch may have a leak in the diaphragm and is cutting out as heat builds in the stove (positive pressure). Lastly, inspect the wires going to the vac switch and make sure one hasn't got cooked being too close to the exhaust, it will reduce continuity and cause the controller to kick out. When the vac switch rolls out the power to the stove is killed if the low limit switch is still open. If the stove is warm, the stove will run until the low limit opens again then power will be killed. Unplug and plug in is the only way to reset the board. I doubt the vac hose is clogged as the #2 would kick in before the pellets dropped, so it's either a dead wire or leaking diaphragm.

Ok Scott, great stuff there: many thanks!
I'll get back to work checking all of this out.
Rich

 

[celticpiping]

Possible that door gaskets are bad which would interfere with vacuum created in the firebox. Dollar bill test? Bill or paper closed in door. If it can be removed easily, need to replace the gaskets...

funny, I know that's a basic test to do, but I haven't done it, only cuz the gasket 'looks' fine...
I need to do this as well..!
Thanks much,
Rich

 

[celticpiping]

well, bypassed the vacuum switch, and it seemed to stay on longer than it's been on in a long time.
However, all of a sudden, smoke started billowing out the INPUT pipe...
So, I abandoned that setup..
It must mean something though..

 

[celticpiping]

#2 has too do with the vac switch try disconnecting the wires that go to the switch and connecting them together with something conductive like a paper clip. It should run okay. If it does you have to figure out what the issue is. Did you remove the two back panels inside the stove? I bet you the left side is full. If everything is clean and the vent is clean the pressure switch may have a leak in the diaphragm and is cutting out as heat builds in the stove (positive pressure). Lastly, inspect the wires going to the vac switch and make sure one hasn't got cooked being too close to the exhaust, it will reduce continuity and cause the controller to kick out. When the vac switch rolls out the power to the stove is killed if the low limit switch is still open. If the stove is warm, the stove will run until the low limit opens again then power will be killed. Unplug and plug in is the only way to reset the board. I doubt the vac hose is clogged as the #2 would kick in before the pellets dropped, so it's either a dead wire or leaking diaphragm.

BTW, I have NOT taken doors off inside..
didn;t know they existed till now..

 

[heat seeker]

Your experience tells me that you do not have enough exhaust flow. Either the fan is bad, or passages/vent are blocked. A thorough cleaning - very thorough - is indicated.

 

[celticpiping]

Your experience tells me that you do not have enough exhaust flow. Either the fan is bad, or passages/vent are blocked. A thorough cleaning - very thorough - is indicated.

interesting..
Well, I can tell you that the exhaust fan works fine, and the outlet pipe is clear.
I guess I need to look into that business of taking those two internal doors off, in the firebox and vacuuming them out..
thanks!
Rich

 

[heat seeker]

While you're in there, try to figure out the airflow paths, to make sure you get them all. As an example, lots of people don't know about all of the ash traps on a St Croix, so don't clean them. You might also want to do the Leaf Blower Trick after you clean inside the stove. It gets crud that you inevitable miss inside the stove. Make SURE you use the SUCTION side of the blower...

 

[celticpiping]

well, I got into those side door areas, and they were very packed with ash..
vacuumed them out in good order, and also ran the vacuum over all other areas I could get to(shop vac)
Fired it up, and I see no change whatsoever.
1) Power button
2) pellets feed
3) pellets light
4) a nice fire is going
5) pellets stop, light starts flashing
6) fire dwindles & dies
7) I sigh and miss the simplicity of my woodstove...

I suppose if nothing else, we know that this pattern of events repeats almost exectly every time, if I
start from scratch.

hmm

 

[celticpiping]

forgot about doing the dollar bill test, but it just passed with flying colors..

 

[heat seeker]

Did you get all the hidden passages clean? Just using a shop vac generally won't do it. Often you need small, long, brushes, and tubing attached to the vac to get the small, hidden, passages. Compressed air can help, but can make a real mess in the house. Perhaps the Leaf Blower Trick would help...

 

[celticpiping]

I confess I didn;t get any further with the shop vac than I could with the default hose..
Maybe I can rig up something...
Are you saying I should go further into both of those passages behind the plates I removed?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[heat seeker]

Yes, you need to go into whatever narrow spots and crevices your stove has. That's exactly where the ash collects and blocks the airflow. I'm not familiar with your stove, so can't be more specific.
Even a bent coat hanger may help loosen clogs so the vac can get them. Some kind of small flexible snake might help.

 

[celticpiping]

roger that.
I'll tackle that next...

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Lake Girl]

celtic, I use a dryer lint brush to clean the exhaust passages but then mine run vertical from the clean outs. Some folks use a bottle brush depending on the exhaust chanel configuration. I also got the micro tool attachment so I have a reducer from the shop vac so that I can attach tubing to run it up the clean outs too.

Get yourself an exhaust gasket and follow manual directions to clean the blower. page 35 of the manual It will also give you a better ideal of how the exhaust channels run.

Keep us posted...

 

[Mt Bob]

Hi.If your chimney/flue/exhaust is good/clean,and this is a used stove,you may still have a blockage.Jumper the vacuum switch,and run stove,report results.The exhaust blower is on one side,and the crossover in the back of the stove could be partially plugged.Everything you describe is a partially blocked stove exhaust.There are other possible problems,but lets just start out basic.Check that crossover channel.

 

[celticpiping]

Hi.If your chimney/flue/exhaust is good/clean,and this is a used stove,you may still have a blockage.Jumper the vacuum switch,and run stove,report results.The exhaust blower is on one side,and the crossover in the back of the stove could be partially plugged.Everything you describe is a partially blocked stove exhaust.There are other possible problems,but lets just start out basic.Check that crossover channel.

Ok, so I snaked out the two ports(running vertically)...got some stuff to drop down & vacuumed it up.
I also thought I'd try the jumping of the vacuum switch again.(See pic for jumped switch)
I did so, and fired it up.
I set the flame to #4, and off it went.
It went very well for 15 minutes or so(the longest by far it's run in a while)..
Nice hot air..pellets dropping in...
Then, as I saw the flame start dying down, I thought I'd do that manual feed tip, & dumped
a handful of pellets in the pot. It kinda smothered out what fire there was...
I closed the door, and watched as the smoke built up in the firebox...
As I wondered if it would catch soon, all of a sudden, POOF...a big puff out the intake pipe,
and a few sparks hit the wall(which was both kinda cool, and a little scary)
It flamed back up, and approx 5 minutes later, out the back comes smoke, billowing out the intake pipe.
I shut it down & double checked that there's nothing burning where it shouldn't be.

Started back up, and set the stove to #2
It went along nicely...then as I'm downstairs (10 minutes later or so), my wife yells down, "it started billowing smoke again!"
and she shut it off.

So: when I bypass the vacuum switch, it seems to run much better, BUT it also at some point, starts billowing
smoke out the intake pipe, which is pointing out the rear, near the wall.
What causes smoke to flow out the intake, AFTER some time passes?

Rich

 

[johneh]

The combustion fan must be stopping
There is no natural draft so the smoke finds the exit of least resistance
I presume there is no OAC installed
The amount of smoke also indicates that there is no draft
To me after 15 min and it shuts down that the proof of fire
switch is not working also . You have more than one problem