Need Help with venting of My P68

[Funnydirt14]

Been watching the forum for a while and just signed up. First post. I just got a Harman P68 and want to hook up my venting to an existing chimney in my family room. The chimney has never been used and has had insulation stuffed in the crock coming out of the wall. The top of the flue has had a chimney cap on to keep out the rain and critter. I would like to run 4" vent pipe up and out the crock. First, does someone make a kit of 4" vent to do the two 90* bends and the rest of the straight pipe? I know I will have to get an adaptor from the stove which is 3" to go to 4". Second, My crock is 10" outside and 8" inside. What do I use to cover the opening and put the 4" venting thru? I would like this piece to be as one so I can take it off as one when I clean it. If I have to buy the pieces individually I will. I thought someone else has done this install and knows the parts that where involved. Thanks.

 

[Lake Girl]

Welcome to the forum - surprised no one has answered you yet. My venting is horizontal so I'm not much help... Good luck!

 

[Funnydirt14]

Welcome to the forum - surprised no one has answered you yet. My venting is horizontal so I'm not much help... Good luck!

Thanks. Maybe I should ask in another way. What do the you guys think is the best way of using my chimney for venting?

 

[Bkins]

I would read the manual and do what it shows or tells you. You will never go wrong by following it.

My Harman is a insert and I have a 5' piece of 4" stainless flex running up through the damper with insulation, fire resistant filled in around it. It's what's shown in my manual but the stove is older and my guess is that things have changed since then. The down side of doing it this way is cleaning and the potential for for a mess with fly ash possibly going out the end of the flex and floating back down onto the chimney shelf and damper area.

Actually I have my Quad running into a chimney the same way other then I'm using double walled pellet pipe rather then flex. Both have worked just fine and the pipe, where it goes through the damper area, with the Quad is just slightly warm to the touch. Very slightly.

You might to a look at EBay for pipe kits and ideas of what is out there. A few of our members are also dealers in all things pellets. One is Eric Kinsman, of Kinsmans Stoves. I believe he is located in Ohio and everybody that has asked for help has been very satisfied with what they received. Do a search and give him a call but keep in mind that this is his busy time. Probably any pellet stove parts supplier would be able to help you but you really want someone who is in the business, and burns pellets to help you out.

Sorry I don't have a direct suggestion for you.

 

[Funnydirt14]

Maybe a few pictures would help.

 

[bogieb]

I don't have a chimney, so no help, but will give you a bump.

 

[rickwai]

You can get a adapter to go from 3 or 4 inch pellet pipe to 8 -10 inch pipe. If you come off the back of the stove with a 6" then a tee, up to breach height, tee, into breach w/ a adapter sealed in. With the tees it gives you ability to clean everything w/out disassemby. You have very little chance of making a 90 in that chimney w/ liner. There is really no need to anyway. Use what you have. If it was me I would use 4 inch from stove to breach adapter

 

[rickwai]

google pellet vent pro. select the catalog and scroll down to the chimney adapter

 

[Lake Girl]

Funnydirt, you're missing a few other things! Hearth pad, surge protector... If you are building a raised hearth, you will want to figure out that height before your exhaust piping. Are you going to install an OAK (outside air kit)? Hope you have fire and CO detectors in place and a fire extinguisher in the same room but away from the stove ... Keep you and the family safe

Used unit? Did you get a chance to fire it up outside? Usually a good idea to do an initial big clean outside - internal exhaust pathways, combustion and convection fans, exchanger area, fines box, etc. with the aid of compressed air. Might want to start with fresh gaskets too...

 

[bags]

X 2 with Lake Girl on the surge and carpet cover. Need to figure out if you are doing and OAK. This is obviously a lower level install but what's behind the drywall and wood wainscot? Do you have a concrete or block knee wall there then framing above where the drywall is? What kind of shape is your existing chimney in? You also need to maintain positive draft. How high is your existing chimney? Outside pics?

K.I.S.S. I agree with Rick on using what you have but we need more construction details. Being able to easily clean and maintain is KEY. More important is the most feasible set up that will work well economically and safely.

 

[Funnydirt14]

The stove is just sitting in place for me to get an idea of some of the measurements I might need. I haven't fired it up yet, but if I do it will be outside. The stove is used, but was used for entertainment rather than for a heating source. The previous owner cleaned the stove before I got it and I went over everything when I got it home, so it is clean. Didn't check the door gaskets yet, but will get to it. Since the P-series stoves require no R value floor protectors under the stove, I was going to make a floor protector out of Hardie board and ceramic tile. 36" X 48". I thought about venting from the stove up thru the crock and out to the end of the crock and stopping, but I have read lots of posts on this forum suggesting against it. Though this is one of the options Harman shows in the install manual. I was afraid that set-up would not pull a draft if power went out. My chimney is 20' high and has an 8" X 13" flue that is in good shape and never used. I would like to have an OAK installed but didn't like having to punch another hole in the wall just for that. I was thinking of the Selkirk DT-M venting system with 4" flex pipe, but don't know if it will work. The block from the outside wall goes as high as the wainscoting. The drywall would be the framing on the foundation. My main concern is safety. I want something that will be fine if power goes out and not fill the house with smoke. Second I want it to be as efficient as possible. I'm willing to spend the money up front if these things can be meet.

 

[johninwi]

I have a simillare setup, basement install into existing chimney. When i did the planning it was cheaper to use the vent pipe in the chimney than is was to use flex, the installers thought it odd but went along with my request. My stove has 2 90's and a T then 23' up, unpluged it once the test a power outage condition and it continued to draft fine.
If i was doing it again i'd use the pipe with the built in oak, selkirk i think makes it. The one question i have about the added rise of an oak in the chimney is, can the fan overcome the heated outside air inside the pipe? i may be over thinking it but it's still a question i have.

One suggestion, figure out what pipe your going to run and the lengths it's available in, then work back down to the stove to see what the height of the exhaust outlet needs to be at, then build a riser for the hearth pad. I added a riser under my pad because the basement floor is very crooked, it allowed me a way to level the pad. Added bennifit is when cleaning it it's a bit further off the floor.

The tile liner sticking into the room could be cut clean with a diamond wheel and a grinder, but it'll be a huge mess. Others may know ways of cutting it cleanly, it may possibly break off clean with a chissel.

 

[Lake Girl]

The tile liner sticking into the room could be cut clean with a diamond wheel and a grinder, but it'll be a huge mess.

Better to use the grinder and diamond wheel than a chisel - the inclusion of moisture might keep the dust down better (like concrete and tile cutters).

 

[Funnydirt14]

The chimney crock sticks out that far I believe to provide distance away from the shelf above the wainscot. This was originally set-up for a wood stove I believe. I have no problem with it being out like that. It would give me room to work on the back of the stove if need be. Selkirk DT-M with the OAK is what I was looking at, but can't picture how a single flex pipe connected at top and bottom will bring in outside air. Wish I had a diagram of exactly how this system works. Pictures are worth a thousand words.

 

[johninwi]

I have access into my chimney, a cleanout door opposite the pipe coming in. Unless you have access into the chimney connecting the joints at the 90 will be almost imposible.
Is venting into the chimney an acceptable option to you? If it's never been used it should be sound. There has been mention of other members having this setup but i don't recall if there were issue's with cleaning or poor drafting involved. It would also mean getting your oak from elsewhere which will make for an unsightly additional pipe in a finished room.

The Selkirk PL series has a massonary connector, PL4MC.

 

[Lake Girl]

Selkirk DT-M page. (broken link removed to http://www.selkirkcorp.com/Selkirk/Product.aspx?id=7390)
You can download the catalog and installation info...

 

[Funnydirt14]

Selkirk DT-M page. (broken link removed to http://www.selkirkcorp.com/Selkirk/Product.aspx?id=7390)
You can download the catalog and installation info...

Lake Girl, I have looked at the catalog and illustrations and none of the installs are thru existing masonry chimney. I know they have a masonry kit , but no one can explain to me how it works. Surely you don't run double wall pipe in the crock, 90* bend and up to top of chimney. I need to know what the venting pipe is from the crock to the top of chimney. How are they running an OAK? From what I gathered from another member you run flex pipe from crock to top of chimney. Flex pipe is a single wall pipe. How is the combustion air returned to the stove from the top of the chimney if the single wall pipe is for the exhaust gasses?

 

[Lake Girl]

The DT is not normally used inside a chimney but as a stand alone. For a chimney install like an insert, this means two flex pipes running up the chimney - one 4" for exhaust and a separate line for the outside air that terminates lower than the exhaust by ?? inches. Yours is a slightly different beast as it was set-up for a wood stove that, in the past, didn't have outside air sources.

For your situation, the exhaust liner can run up the chimney from a stove pipe adapter with rigid pipe from the stove to that point. You'll have to figure out another option for separate OAK. Have you contacted a local installer or building official?

 

[mykye44]

Rickawi comments above...he is correct.

I just joined so please excuse but this is how I did mine...I installed this Cab 50 three years ago into an existing chimney and have absolutly no issues at all...the hole diameter in the wall was 8" for the old wood stove...I discussed the venting with the company I bought the stove from & they told me I would be waisting my $$ money running a 3" flex out and to the top of my 18' chimney...where I live my code does not require it..so what I did is get 2 pieces of sheet metal stock from HDepot and cut them to 8" round to fit in the existing hole...I then cut a 3" +1/8 hole in the center of them so the double walled dura vent 3" stove pipe would slide through and keep it in place....assembly...connected the piping to the stove up to the elbow...center of the elbow has to be aligned to center of existing 8" hole in wall.....next measure the total length of the 8" hole and join some sections of duravent to that length..if it's slightly longer or shorter thats ok...put the first 8" round sheet metal stock deep in the wall hole...next I put the straight section of double walled 3" dura vent into the opening of the sheet metal stock and slightly beyond so I could pull it back later and connect to the elbow...now to insulate you can purchase at an industrial supply house a piece of 2 foot fiberglass pipe insulation 8" round with 3" center hole...I cut a 10" slice off & slide it in the chimney hole back against the deep sheet stock...next I used the other half of the insulation and slid that in just enough that I could put in the other 8" round sheet metal stock in....added the decorative trim plate and pulled the duravent pipe back onto the elbow...twist & lock...some might think not a good idea..for me it's the ticket...and after all said and done...the 8" fiberglass pipe insulation fit so good I wouldnt have even needed the sheet metal stock...live & learn.

 

[Lake Girl]

From discussion on another thread NFPA 211 for US (CSA 365-10 for Canada) requires OAK hook-up.

 

[Funnydirt14]

How did you guys determine the lengths of pipe you needed for the Selkirk DT-M pipe 4 x 7? I was on the Selkirk website and there measurement are somewhat confusing. For example a 24" pipe is really 21.88" if I'm reading it right. I need a measurement of 52" from center stove outlet to center of chimney outlet. At the bottom I will be using the Selkirk T/with cleanout. Next the burn air intake, then straight pipe to the 90* into the chimney. I am thinking I will need there 24" and 12" straight pipe to connect everything together. But I want to be sure, because this stuff is expensive and I don't want extra pieces. Also I haven't figured out which stove adaptor to use with this install. Or can I just hook the T straight to the stove outlet?

 

[johninwi]

I don't think the 90* elbow will fit into the crock, it measures greater than 7.75" tall, (dim D looks to be the end to the internal exhaust pipe) and is 7" across, the crock is 8", right? You might be able to get it into the hole by laying it at a 45 and sliding it into the hole, then you need to put screws into both ends it, don't really see how that's going to happen. Sorry, but i've looked at changing my setup and can't answer this question.

I believe the dimension "C" from the catalog is the effective length, the install manual states a 1" overlap.

The cleanout T doesn't even give you it's most important dimension,
The 90* is 6.8"
Air intake is 10"
12" piece 9.88"
6" piece 3.88"
adjustable, 12.5" to19.5"
gets you between 43" and 50"

cleanout, 4.5"?

 

[Funnydirt14]

I don't think the 90* elbow will fit into the crock, it measures greater than 7.75" tall, (dim D looks to be the end to the internal exhaust pipe) and is 7" across, the crock is 8", right? You might be able to get it into the hole by laying it at a 45 and sliding it into the hole, then you need to put screws into both ends it, don't really see how that's going to happen. Sorry, but i've looked at changing my setup and can't answer this question.

I believe the dimension "C" from the catalog is the effective length, the install manual states a 1" overlap.

The cleanout T doesn't even give you it's most important dimension,
The 90* is 6.8"
Air intake is 10"
12" piece 9.88"
6" piece 3.88"
adjustable, 12.5" to19.5"
gets you between 43" and 50"

cleanout, 4.5"?

Sorry, I forgot to mention the masonry conversion kit. That will be in the crock and connect to the 90*. So that will be centered in the crock. I figured the T at about 5.5 looking at the picture. How about air intake 10", adjustable 19.5", 12"= 9.88", 90*= 6.8". That comes out to 51.76". Is that close enough? And what does the T connect to the stove with?

 

[johninwi]

Sorry, I forgot

Not an issue, know it well.

I put a 5" riser under my hearth pad, thought the extra height would make service easier, seems to help. This might be an option for you if it fits with your design, maybe an inch or 2 to let you make more use of the adjustable section. Or if the 1/4" bothers you a shim between the stove and hearth pad would take that up.

I AM NOT AN EXPERT.
but it's the web so i can pretend. adapters listed are the 9364 and the 9301mod, still seems odd that dim "A" is the same for both.

So what comes in the masonary conversion kit? And does it work with the outside air.

 

[Funnydirt14]

It doesn't show it in the old pictures, but I put in a backer board and ceramic tile hearth on top of the concrete floor underneath. It only has me about a 1/2" or so rise. The masonry kit 4DT-MCK has the inlet for the crock, the outlet for the top of chimney where the cap fits on and a piece of flashing for the top of the masonry chimney. But now that I look at it I'm not sure I'm using the right 90* pipe for the connection to the chimney inlet. I'm getting more confused the more I study this set-up. How about 9464 for the stove adaptor?