New Furnace Day: Drolet Heat Commander

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I bet we will see a Max Caddy version of the HC before long...

I was hoping so BUT @SBI_Nick didn't seem very positive on a bigger unit being needed or happening when he commented on it earlier in this thread. I would absolutely take advantage of the Tax Credit this year or next if PSG came out with a version that would work in my home. As it stands, PSG's website is still showing no products available so it must be taking them a while to get their new versions to market. If only Nick could give me a hint... ;)
 
As it stands, PSG's website is still showing no products available so it must be taking them a while to get their new versions to market.

It's just a wild guess, but I'm thinking they are using the HC as their "guinea pig" to see how things go in the real world for a new product. They will then make any needed changes/revisions/updates and apply them to the Caddy line. I don't think it's smart business practice to release a brand new product under numerous models before they get everything dialed in from real world feedback over time. This is where all you first to buy HC buyers come in. ==c
 
It's just a wild guess, but I'm thinking they are using the HC as their "guinea pig" to see how things go in the real world for a new product. They will then make any needed changes/revisions/updates and apply them to the Caddy line. I don't think it's smart business practice to release a brand new product under numerous models before they get everything dialed in from real world feedback over time. This is where all you first to buy HC buyers come in. ==c

I don't think so. They already have the Caddy Advanced and the Caddy Advanced CR on the EPA approval list. I'm guessing they wouldn't got through the trouble of getting it approved if the design wasn't finalized.

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Seems to me like leaving the 2500 sq ft and up homeowners just hanging in the wind for SBI wood furnace options would be shortsighted on their part...I dunno, maybe that market isn't as big as I think it is (no pun intended ;lol)
They already have the Caddy Advanced and the Caddy Advanced CR on the EPA approval list. I'm guessing they wouldn't got through the trouble of getting it approved if the design wasn't finalized.
This makes me wonder...how are there software updates being done to the Heat Commanders? It was my understanding that once a given model was tested/approved there could be NO changes made to it...?
 
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Seems to me like leaving the 2500 sq ft and up homeowners just hanging in the wind for SBI wood furnace options would be shortsighted on their part...I dunno, maybe that market isn't as big as I think it is (no pun intended ;lol)

This makes me wonder...how are there software updates being done to the Heat Commanders? It was my understanding that once a given model was tested/approved there could be NO changes made to it...?

Updates have been emailed, downloaded to flash drive, then installed via USB port on main circuit board at the rear of the HC.

I don't know if this is/will be the norm after a few minor tweaks have been made early on. I think I recall SBI saying that they couldn't adjust some of the programming algorithms due to EPA certification rules?

Eric
 
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Could the end user make changes? Sounds like an interesting idea. Folks tune automotive ECUs all the time.
 
It was my understanding that once a given model was tested/approved there could be NO changes made to it...?
Interesting question, It would be nice to hear the views of manufacturers of wood burning stoves/furnaces who have gone through the EPA certification testing.
 
Updates have been emailed, downloaded to flash drive, then installed via USB port on main circuit board at the rear of the HC.

I don't know if this is/will be the norm after a few minor tweaks have been made early on. I think I recall SBI saying that they couldn't adjust some of the programming algorithms due to EPA certification rules?

Eric
Right...but my understanding was there could be NO changes after certification, none, zero...not even on things that have nothing to do with how it burns (which I thought sounded ridiculous)
 
While I don't expect the average user to go tweaking programming code it would be nice to see a few user adjustable settings such as dip switches like a normal forced air furnace might have. This way we could select different fan speed presets, cut in/out temperatures, timers....

There are no 2 installs that are the same. The HC does a pretty good job, better than past SBI furnaces at adjusting or adapting.

Eric
 
I'd pass. These are devices that can burn my house down.
And many folks have modified their stoves. I think it would be hard to burn down the house with a properly installed chimney.
 
While I don't expect the average user to go tweaking programming code it would be nice to see a few user adjustable settings such as dip switches like a normal forced air furnace might have. This way we could select different fan speed presets, cut in/out temperatures, timers....
Oh, you can't set any of that on the HC ? Hmmmm, maybe I will stick with my old school Caddy. :p
 
Oh, you can't set any of that on the HC ? Hmmmm, maybe I will stick with my old school Caddy. :p
Yup , you can still tweak the heck outta those aftermarket controllers! ;) ::-) ;)
 
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And many folks have modified their stoves. I think it would be hard to burn down the house with a properly installed chimney.
Writing PLC code and making physical modifications, adding a speed controller or maybe a simple relay switch are two different things. Writing PLC code is a very specialized field. You just can't hook a off the shelf programmer to your HC and change the settings like you can a car. I write some code for a living and I wouldn't even know where to start at on how to program a PLC.
 
Back on topic.

I haven't spent a lot of time looking at the manual for the HC. Is it a black box / plug and play type unit that you can't change any settings on ?
 
It's amazing what can be done when the right folks start investigating the code. I'm a mod over on a Ford truck forum. One of our most popular threads is about a free program called Forscan. With it you can turn on an off all kinds of options in your truck. However, it's not like a tuner where you can blow up the motor if you're not careful by altering fueling parameters, etc. . It's more like the example above where you can flip the digital version of a dip switch. For example, for legal reasons, you can't have your high beams and fog lights on at the same time so Ford has this blocked. It can be unblocked with Forscan. Same goes with entering a destination into your navigation system while the vehicle is in motion. Blocked in the US for legal reasons but legal in other countries so you make the change with Forscan and you simply put the truck in UK mode where it's legal. Auto roll down windows are ok but auto roll up... yup, litigation waiting to happen so blocked from the factory but unblocked with Forscan. It's as simple as changing a single character in the HEX. The list goes on and on but you get the idea. I'm guessing there are things like this in a computerized furnace controller that can be changed without burning one's house down but who's going to get in there and figure it out?

PS: If anyone is curious about Forscan, be sure to spell it correctly when Googling... ;)
 
It's amazing what can be done when the right folks start investigating the code. I'm a mod over on a Ford truck forum. One of our most popular threads is about a free program called Forscan. With it you can turn on an off all kinds of options in your truck. However, it's not like a tuner where you can blow up the motor if you're not careful by altering fueling parameters, etc. . It's more like the example above where you can flip the digital version of a dip switch. For example, for legal reasons, you can't have your high beams and fog lights on at the same time so Ford has this blocked. It can be unblocked with Forscan. Same goes with entering a destination into your navigation system while the vehicle is in motion. Blocked in the US for legal reasons but legal in other countries so you make the change with Forscan and you simply put the truck in UK mode where it's legal. Auto roll down windows are ok but auto roll up... yup, litigation waiting to happen so blocked from the factory but unblocked with Forscan. It's as simple as changing a single character in the HEX. The list goes on and on but you get the idea. I'm guessing there are things like this in a computerized furnace controller that can be changed without burning one's house down but who's going to get in there and figure it out?

PS: If anyone is curious about Forscan, be sure to spell it correctly when Googling... ;)
I'm also on one of those Ford forums, I have Forscan and have tweaked numerous settings on my f150.

I'm sure someone could reverse engineer SBI's code and come up with a way to modify it, however, comparing Forscan and the number of Ford vehicles produced vs "programmable" wood stoves isn't exactly apples to apples in comparison!

I don't think your average wood burning fanatic is going to start tweaking wood furnace code any time soon. There are a few pretty smart individuals on this site for sure though!

Eric
 
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I'm sure someone could reverse engineer SBI's code and come up with a way to modify it, however, comparing Forscan and the number of Ford vehicles produced vs "programmable" wood stoves isn't exactly apples to apples in comparison!

I don't think your average wood burning fanatic is going to start tweaking wood furnace code any time soon. There are a few pretty smart individuals on this site for sure though!

Eric

That was exactly the point of my post Eric... It can be done but likely won't....
 
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Writing PLC code and making physical modifications, adding a speed controller or maybe a simple relay switch are two different things. Writing PLC code is a very specialized field. You just can't hook a off the shelf programmer to your HC and change the settings like you can a car. I write some code for a living and I wouldn't even know where to start at on how to program a PLC.

Would you look at that! An old PLC 5 controlling my damper based on a thermocouple... complete with push buttons to initiate cold and hot start sequences. Sad thats really all this thing is doing right now! Plenty of built-in failsafes also. I have the analog cards to put the fan on a VFD also, but haven’t gotten around to it. I’ve also thought about a continuously variable damper control, but haven’t gotten to that either. I really want to put an HMI on here and start logging some data... burn times, temperatures, house temps, propane furnace run times, etc. endless possibilities really. Could network it to an SQL database.... ok I’m done. My inner geek almost came out. And yeah this stuff is all off the shelf, but the software/licensing alone might cost you $5k.

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I just don't see why it would be such a big deal to modify the code. You wouldn't have to rewrite the whole thing. It also wouldn't be hard to install an interface between the processor and the peripherals and make changes downstream rather than tweak the code. Perhaps to some of the forum members it's a big task that nobody would ever attempt, but I see all kinds of normal people of all ages writing code for arduinos, Rasberry Pi, entire programs, etc. Maybe it's not often that programmers own wood stoves, but nobody expected a pandemic to come either. Plenty of smart people have plenty of free time now. I'm also not sure why it is off topic to discuss the hardware and software this computer controlled wood burning furnace uses.
 
Hi everyone,

There are some points that we would like to address.

The specifications between the Heat Commander and its predecessor the Tundra/Heatmax:

The main reason the specs are pretty much the same is because we wanted to have a similar product. The size of the firebox is the same, but in fact if you measure each one you will find that Heat Commander one is a bit larger to incorporate a better brick pattern and improve production. So why is it the same? Because the two were not measured in the same way, some areas were considered to be part of the combustion chamber volume which were rejected at this time because we felt that the user should not be put wood there (Ex: the steel lip between the glass and the brick was considered part of the volume of the Heat Max, but we don't think it is a good idea to do this). Regarding the heating area, it has always been a debate here. How do you determine the right size of the heating area for a product? You can have the same house in a different climate zone which required a different heating input. The only way to properly size the furnace is to determine the heat input required for your home. Knowing the maximum heat output of the furnace (42,234 BTU / h delivered to the plenum and 47,052 BTU / h overall) and the heat input required to heat your home, you will be able to determine if the furnace is large enough or not. The maximum heat output is determined during a test where the thermostat is always calling for heat, therefore we do not recommend using this value. The furnace can achieve it but isn't designed to run at is maximum capacity all the time.

*** Important *** To select the correct size unit, you must use a value of approximately 30,000 to 35,000 btu at a baseline. Why do we recommend this? Because the furnace is not designed to burn at full capacity all day and if needed, you will have enough power for the colder days.

We are convinced that the Heat Commander can heat a larger home than its predecessor. If you are willing to load the furnace more frequently, it could probably heat up even more. The biggest gain over the Tundra / Heatmax is the smoother heat distribution throughout a burn. Automation makes it user-friendly and ensures better overall comfort and less babysitting. Another difference is that the Heat Commander uses a larger blower than the Tundra / Heatmax, which should help with a longer plenum in a larger house.

Software update

To be clear, we are not allowed to make any changes that will affect the emissions. Whether it's software or physical changes. After approval, all documentation and algorithm are forwarded to the EPA. We are also inspected at the factory to confirm that our products are still compliant. If we make any changes that could affect emissions performance, they must be submitted, approved or retested.

What’s coming next

There is always stress when you launch new technology in the field. We did extensive testing before bringing the HC to market, but it's still difficult to represent actual use. We are still heating units here and are in touch with users for their feedback.

Now that we have a few months of heating, we can say that we are quite happy with the performance of the Heat Commander. As some know, the Caddy range will be complemented by the Caddy Advanced. The new family member is expected to be in production during the summer. The Caddy Advanced will be an upgraded version of the Heat Commander for HVAC instead of DIY users.

COMING SOON
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Nicolas