New guy with a venting conundrum

[AppaVA]

Hello all. I have been browsing these boards for a couple of years. I have read "The Hearth Room" endlessly and driven my wife nuts perusing "The Pellet Mill". Finally--after endless debate--I have come to the relization that if I want to heat my home with some sort of stove it needs to be a pellet stove. This decision was made easier when my parents gifted me their Whitfield 20. Dont worry! They wont be out in the cold as the 20 was replaced by a 30 a few years back.

A little back ground. I grew up around wood stoves and coal stoves. As a youngun I toted a coal scuttle to stoke me grandparents Kenmore stove at night and carried out ash and clinkers the next morning after shaking the grates. I have css my share of firewood to feed the Virginian that was in the basement when I was growing up. It sounds crazy to some when I say I love the work but in my current situation I have no room and little time to keep a couple cords of seasoned wood and a couple cords of geen wood. A pellet stove is the obvious answer. This leads to my conundrum.

The Profile 20 is intended to heat my finished, insulated, basement. Any heat that makes it up the stairwell to the rest of the house is bonus. However, as many on these boards can attest, venting from a below grade (though it is a walk out) basement can be tough. The only place for me to vent the stove is through the rim joist in the part of the basement that is below grade. I would prefer to use Selkirk Direct Temp as I think it would provide for a cleaner install with an OAK. However, my exit from the rim joist is only going to give me ~12" of clearance from the ground. This means that I will have to add another 90 and go up at least another 12" before I terminate. My preference is to use a "snorkel kit" for this additional rise but from what I can tell there is not snorkel box available for Direct Temp. I have not been able to find a snorkel kit from another manufacturer were I to use a different brand of pipe. Maybe I am missing something? Maybe there is no such animal for pellet venting?

Thoughts? Comments? Jokes about the new guy? This is a geat place with a wealth of information and I drive my wife nuts with it!

On a side note, I live about 1.5 hours from Turman Hardwood Flooring and about 1.5 hours from Englander Stove Works. Next time I find myself in either place I'll try to remember to take a few pics and post them up!

 

[Lake Girl]

Snorkel kits only seem to be available on gas venting. Looks like your stuck with another 90 and 12" ... elevation on pipe means you'll have to go to 4"?

 

[becasunshine]

Welcome New Guy from western Virginia.

We are currently cooking Turman's in our stove.

Yes, please post pics of Turman's and of Englander.

Also, please post pics of dog in front of stove. We *know* you have a dog. If no dog, please post picture of cat in front of stove.

Contented animals attest to your stove keeping skills. <:3~ =:X

 

[gfreek]

Never seen a "snorkel" kit for Direct Temp or for pellet piping for that matter.. So you would have 4 elbows to get ground clearance ?? Don't think that is doable, so hope someone else advises on this..

 

[AppaVA]

Thanks for the replies!

Snorkel kits only seem to be available on gas venting. Looks like your stuck with another 90 and 12" ... elevation on pipe means you'll have to go to 4"?

Never seen a "snorkel" kit for Direct Temp or for pellet piping for that matter.. So you would have 4 elbows to get ground clearance ?? Don't think that is doable, so hope someone else advises on this..

This is what I have found as well. I am assuming that exhaust temps play a roll in the lack of a snorkel kit for pellet pipe? Seems logical as the boxes genenrally mount directly to the exterior wall leaving 0" clearance to combustables.

Here is my intended configuration. Tell me what you think. From the clean out T at the back of the stove (essentially elbow #1) I will have ~7' of rise to the second elbow and the wall thimble. The thimble exit will leave me with approximtately 12" of ground clearance. At this point I will need a third elbow to add additional pipe to give me the required 18" elevation from the ground. I can add however much pipe I need/want but would prefer to find a happy medium between good draft and good looks. This is where I was hoping to use a snorkel as I think they are less obtrusive. Oh well. No big deal!

Welcome New Guy from western Virginia.

We are currently cooking Turman's in our stove.

Yes, please post pics of Turman's and of Englander.

Also, please post pics of dog in front of stove. We *know* you have a dog. If no dog, please post picture of cat in front of stove.

Contented animals attest to your stove keeping skills. <:3~ =:X

Oh I see. Since I'm from the mountains that automatically means I have a dog. I actually I have a brown one that matches the black one in your avatar. She's a bit neurotic and has anxiety issues but we love her! Is that pick taken on SML or Buggs Island?
If VA goes under tomorrow at least we can say "well, at least we make a good pellet and good stoves to burn them in".

 

[Lake Girl]

The snorkel kits I have looked at are actually a "power vent" meaning an electrically operated fan to assist is clearance of flue gases. Pellet exhaust temp and corrosion would not be healthy for those components.

When you first said snorkel kit, my mind went to my sister's wood fired hot tub with a "snorkel" from the submersed wood stove box

 

[gfreek]

Owners manual? Look up and see what the EVL ( Equivalent Vertical Length) for the vent piping is. There is a formula for this and I don't have it now but if you do a search I'm sure it will come up..

 

[becasunshine]

Oh I see. Since I'm from the mountains that automatically means I have a dog. I actually I have a brown one that matches the black one in your avatar. She's a bit neurotic and has anxiety issues but we love her! Is that pick taken on SML or Buggs Island?
If VA goes under tomorrow at least we can say "well, at least we make a good pellet and good stoves to burn them in".

No, since you have a wood burning appliance, you must have a house pet of some sort. Contented animals are the barometer of comfort in the home. We are low-landers and we have both a dog and a cat. I am something of an over-achiever.

That picture was taken on the Rappahannock River, just below Moraticco. Bonus points if you can correctly identify Morattico!

I've spoken with a couple of people who have had Labs with anxiety issues. It's not typical of the Lab personality but it does happen. Nevertheless, Labs are supremely lovable, anxiety issues and all. We have been so lucky with Sam- he's rock solid. This is hands down the best experience we've ever had with a dog. I love all kinds of dogs and animals but I think that I'm a Lab owner for life now. I cannot remember Life Before a Labbie.

 

[Lake Girl]

A bit of the trail but we had a lab with anxiety eating and afraid of the dark. When he was in trouble, like the time he helped himself to raw ground beef off the counter, he would hide in the closet. But, our Sam was a faith companion to my boy and several times was on hand to run off bears that were coming to close to the house. Bet he would have loved the pellet stove. It's a toss-up now of who gets the best spot by the stove - one of the three cats or the german shepherd

 

[becasunshine]

This is totally anecdotal, unofficial, uneducated and just a guess- but my impression of the Labs of whom I've known with anxiety issues was that they really cared too much. They actually seemed to realize that they couldn't control the horizontal and the vertical, that they couldn't protect their families from all of the harm in the big, bad world, and it made them anxious. It was almost as if they were too smart and too self-aware- like they woke up one morning and realized that they didn't have thumbs, that they don't have a cell phone or a driver's license, and that they really couldn't drive you to the hospital in case of emergency.

Labs are smart, smart dogs.

 

[Lake Girl]

You may be on to something about the sensitivity ... they use them as service dogs for those with epilepsy. Some can detect a seizure before it occurs allowing their human time to get situated a little safer before the seizure hits.

 

[AppaVA]

I have figured the EVL allowing for:

• 4 90 Elbows,
• 2' of horizontal (stove to clean out Tee)
• 10' of vertical rise (clean out Tee to thimble and thimble to exhaust)

These lengths equal an EVL of 27' which is right on the threshold of 3" or 4" pipe at my altitude. I think it is probably best to use 4" pipe. This brings me back to Direct Temp which is what I want to use anyway.

Next question. This is to be a corner installation and I would like to build a chase to cover the indoor pipe and face the chase with dry stack stone veneer. I realize that this chase could cause an issue with cleaning and maintenance of the pipe. My idea is to use the vacuum port on the bottom of the clean out Tee. I would like to extend the vacuum pipe to the outside of the chase. I have not been able to determine whether or not the vacuum pipe needs 1" clearance to combustibles or not. If it does I am sure that I can come up with something. Thoughts? Opinions?

 

[AppaVA]

This is totally anecdotal, unofficial, uneducated and just a guess- but my impression of the Labs of whom I've known with anxiety issues was that they really cared too much. They actually seemed to realize that they couldn't control the horizontal and the vertical, that they couldn't protect their families from all of the harm in the big, bad world, and it made them anxious. It was almost as if they were too smart and too self-aware- like they woke up one morning and realized that they didn't have thumbs, that they don't have a cell phone or a driver's license, and that they really couldn't drive you to the hospital in case of emergency.

Labs are smart, smart dogs.

That's Maddie to a T. She is extremely intelligent. To smart for her on good sometimes. She came from a breeder of field trial dogs. Her mother was a champion field dog and her father was a DEA dog. Apparently there are some good lines there. She is a family pet for us but even at 4 years old she has limitless energy and is eager to please. I have found birds and rabbits on our back deck on a few occasions. I was quite impressed that she managed to catch a rabbit. She is great with a tennis ball and can catch a Frisbee with no problems. She is extremely protective of my wife and daughter when I am not home. She knows her roll.

 

[mikkeeh]

I thought that under 3000 ft, the EVL threshold was closer to 15....from 3" to 4".

 

[AppaVA]

Whitfields table (below) shows EVL threshold of about 25' all the way down to sea level. I am in a valley and my elevation is 900' give or take. Maybe I am missing something?

 

[AppaVA]

That picture was taken on the Rappahannock River, just below Moraticco. Bonus points if you can correctly identify Morattico!

I am a history buff and consider myself well versed in the history and geography of Virginia. That being said I have no clue where Morattico is so I had to look it up. I am a bit dissapointed in myself.

 

[ChandlerR]

That's Maddie to a T. She is extremely intelligent. To smart for her on good sometimes. She came from a breeder of field trial dogs. Her mother was a champion field dog and her father was a DEA dog. Apparently there are some good lines there. She is a family pet for us but even at 4 years old she has limitless energy and is eager to please. I have found birds and rabbits on our back deck on a few occasions. I was quite impressed that she managed to catch a rabbit. She is great with a tennis ball and can catch a Frisbee with no problems. She is extremely protective of my wife and daughter when I am not home. She knows her roll.

I'm with you but I'm a golden guy. Been involved with golden rescue since 1985. I always say that goldens are much like labs but with long fur. My two are incredible dogs. Both are Therapy dogs and they are calm, loving, intelligent companions.

 

[becasunshine]

That's Maddie to a T. She is extremely intelligent. To smart for her on good sometimes. She came from a breeder of field trial dogs. Her mother was a champion field dog and her father was a DEA dog. Apparently there are some good lines there. She is a family pet for us but even at 4 years old she has limitless energy and is eager to please. I have found birds and rabbits on our back deck on a few occasions. I was quite impressed that she managed to catch a rabbit. She is great with a tennis ball and can catch a Frisbee with no problems. She is extremely protective of my wife and daughter when I am not home. She knows her roll.

AppaVa, it sounds like our Labbies came from the same litter. Literally. Except Sam is three years old. But yeah, everything else is pretty much the same. Sam's a family pet too. Fortunately we have access to places where he can burn off the energy.

And ditto, Sam is the most amicable dog you'll ever meet, but he is protective of me as well. He has my back when Mr. Sunshine's not around.

 

[Don2222]

Hello and welcome

You do not need a snorkel kit just a 90 deg DT elbow on the outsite and 1 foot DT pipe to another 90 Deg DT elbow and then just put the termination on that. Simple.

 

[AppaVA]

Thanks for the insight Don. That's what I have in mind. What size hole is required for the DT thimble? I haven't been able to find the deminsions. Maybe I overlooked it.

 

[Don2222]

Good question! I have a DT setup to answer your question, hold on I will check.......

... It is approx 9 inches, since the DT has a cooler outer wall there only needs to be a 1 inch air gap around the pipe instead of 2 inches like the regular pellet pipe.
I stuff the 1 inch gap with 100% fire proof roxul insulation to stop the cold air from coming in!

 

[AppaVA]

Just so I understand, I need to cut my hole ~ 9"? In other words, the outside diameter of the thimble is 9". And, you stuff Roxul between the pipe and the thimble or the thimble and the cut hole? Just want to be sure I have my measurements correct so I don't order a bunch of material I can't use.

 

[Don2222]

Just so I understand, I need to cut my hole ~ 9"? In other words, the outside diameter of the thimble is 9". And, you stuff Roxul between the pipe and the thimble or the thimble and the cut hole? Just want to be sure I have my measurements correct so I don't order a bunch of material I can't use.

Yes, Thimble is almost 9" in diameter and yes, I add Roxul between the pipe and the thimble. You can use fiberglass around the outside of the thimble inside the wall.

 

[becasunshine]

I am a history buff and consider myself well versed in the history and geography of Virginia. That being said I have no clue where Morattico is so I had to look it up. I am a bit dissapointed in myself.

NO! Don't be disappointed in yourself, AppaVA! Morattico is a small and somewhat remote place. Be not disappointed- be happy that you bumped into someone who introduced you to Morattico! The Morattico Fisherman's Museum is truly a special place to visit. We love Morattico. <:3~

 

[AppaVA]

Yes, Thimble is almost 9" in diameter and yes, I add Roxul between the pipe and the thimble. You can use fiberglass around the outside of the thimble inside the wall.

Gotcha! Thinks for the input and direction. Assuming I have time, I plan to order my material on Monday and should have it on hand by the end of the week. I don't think I will be able to do the install until after the holidays due to a busy schedule. The wife is looking forward to it.