New guy with indoor boiler questions.

[2broke2ride]

Hi there, kinda new here looking for advice.
I am looking to install a used indoor wood boiler in conjunction with my oil boiler.
I have researched up and down but need someone to dumb it down for me lol as well as maybe provide some links to parts. Also, I have not yet purchased a used boiler yet so any advice there's appreciated. I need this to be as inexpensive as possible while still being safe.
I understand the boiler needs to plumb in with my current boiler in parallel using "closely spaced tees" I assume that means the out and return from the wood boiler plumb into the main loop basically side by side????
I also understand i need a "heat dump" that can dissipate the full btu of the boiler in case of power outage or radiators not calling for heat. What would this look like? What parts are needed here?
Diagrams of how to plumb this would be super helpful. I am no dummy and I'm not scared to do this, just want to make sure I do it right.
Thanks.

 

[VirginiaIron]

Subscribed.

Once you determine what manufacture, the best thing is to follow the installation instructions. I’m sure you have also come across the DIY boiler and installation information in your searching.

Here is a thread specifically on your thermal dump question.

Thread 'Dump Zone design'

Nov 15, 2012

Finally getting around to adding a thremalsyphone dump zone to my set up for a failsafe incase my back up power has an issue or if the circ on the boiler dies. Looking at baseboard output, looks like 3/4" will get me 680 btu/ft @ 200*. I seem to remember reading somewhere on a post that the dump zone should handle 10% of boiler output, I have an EKO 25 so 10% is 10,000 btu's or about 15 ft of base board, I have plenty of base board so I will probably do 20 or 25 depending on space. Does this all seem reasonable, also is it worth adding some pitch to the dump zone to aid in the flow? If so...

• timberr
• Replies: 23
• Forum: The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces

There is also a lot of free manuals, and online pictures, from manufacturers on the plumbing setup regarding power failures, most include a NO valve (opens on failure/power failure) along with a prescribed loop length.

 

[brenndatomu]

I'd highly recommend installing storage...and that takes care of your heat dump issue too.

 

[salecker]

My backup oil boiler is hooked up with close spaced tee's after my heat ex changer from storage. Storage is water. Underground lines, house and backup boiler are on glycol

 

[2broke2ride]

I downloaded an owners manual for a Kerr 101T that I am considering and it instructs to plumb in series???? Is that appropriate? Everything I've been reading says it should be plumbed in parallel.
Also, my system is a monoflow system with one main loop, is there a reason that big loop and all the baseboards wouldn't function as a "heat dump"
Sorry for all the questions, just trying to understand this.

 

[hobbyheater]

Storage with boiler protection is a must with this boiler.Plus dry wood 14/15 % moisture content. I had the forced air version of this boiler many years ago like 50 years !
Plumbing in series allows you to use the oil boilers controls but a t a big hit in wasted BTU's can be as high as 350,000 per day .

 

[hobbyheater]

The Kerr Titan will not require a heat dump it puts water on the fire if things get to hot!

 

[2broke2ride]

Are you joking??? Or does it really do that? Sorry, I'm super new to this boiler stuff, I've had wood stoves and wood furnaces for 40 years but never a boiler so some things go over my head lol.

 

[hobbyheater]

Are you joking??? Or does it really do that? Sorry, I'm super new to this boiler stuff, I've had wood stoves and wood furnaces for 40 years but never a boiler so some things go over my head

Several of the boilers from the 70's did that and the Kerr Titan did !

The gasifcation boilers of today require storage or a dump zone.
The Kerr Titan still may be available new from from Kerr Contols Turo Novia Scotia !

 

[hyfire]

You need storage, even though the boiler will shut down, it still smoulders, you need that heat somewhere to go or else your in big trouble. It still can be a problem once the storage is hot and you have no load on the system, depends how full you loaded the boiler. You need to design to heat your space and load the tanks to temp in about an 8 hr burn works well.

 

[salecker]

On a normal winter day -20C around 4 below F with my 1000 gallons of storage i fire from 5 PM to 11 PM when i go to bed i shut the boiler off.
According to the gauges the highest temp i have achieved at a regular burn is 186F, so there is still some room for BTU's

 

[hyfire]

On a normal winter day -20C around 4 below F with my 1000 gallons of storage i fire from 5 PM to 11 PM when i go to bed i shut the boiler off.
According to the gauges the highest temp i have achieved at a regular burn is 186F, so there is still some room for BTU's

Storage is nice to have , but it is not cheap to do.

 

[Tonty]

I think thermal storage is the best way to go, but for different reasons some may decide or not be able to put it in. There are a few units that are advertised to work without thermal storage, such as Polar and Woodgun, and they both make indoor units. But the high efficient units that can get by without thermal storage are mostly newer models, I believe, so you may have a difficult time finding a suitable, efficient unit that will work well without storage. If you don't care about the efficiency, then you will have an easier time finding a unit. Personally, I like the thermal storage from a couple of standpoints, efficiency being one, but another is safety. With my Switzer, my burns take in the 2 hour time frame, and usually I do those at a time when I am at home. Outside that, there is no fire in the unit.

 

[salecker]

Storage is nice to have , but it is not cheap to do.

All mine cost me was my time and spray foam
Tanks were free, had salvage steel for the mounts. I made a steel frame that held both tanks upright and together. Spray foamed then and slid the tank assembly into the corner of the boiler building.
Every time i go to the junk yard i see numerous tanks for storage. I took 5 pressure tanks to the dump here before that started charging tipping fees

 

[cumminstinkerer]

The Polars will work good without storage but they get even better with it. Mine is the G2+ and I have 1500 gallon of nonpressurized storage, my folks have a G3 with no storage, my burns are still cleaner and even accounting for load differences mine uses less wood per day than theirs. I run mine like a conventional i guess you would say, or as if it didn't have storage, the boiler still controls itself and my homemade control board runs the circs, it also has an overheat protection built in so that if the boiler goes above 187 the boiler to storage circ kicks on to dump that heat to the storage, have never had any issues with getting way to hot, even in a power failure situation because the air manifolds close with no power and the draft fan dies. It will once in a while shoot a bit high to where the protect circuit comes in if the storage is satisfied before the boiler gets there, but that protect circuit kicks in and cools the boiler down and only raises storage maybe 2 degrees above setpoint so not a big deal.

 

[DSSA]

Storage is nice to have , but it is not cheap to do.

I missed out on an Eko 60 setup with 1000 gallons of pressurized storage a while back, but it was just not the right timing (I had just bought an Eko 40, and was still learning the basics of setting up a system). Talking to the guy, he was telling me how expensive the tanks were (pressurized storage), and how I wouldn't find one for under $10K used (his was a bare tank as well--no insulation), so I thought I was screwed on the storage aspect....

A couple of weeks later, I happened upon a 1040 gallon, certified tank for $900, unused from an industrial heating project that got cancelled, about an hour away from me, so I picked that up and am working on it. The tank goes new for around $18K. I also just came across another tank local to me that's 2400 gallons, for $600, but the certs are questionable (mine was certified to 125psi @ 200F which covers both pressure and temp for my system quite readily, the 2400 gallon was something like 100psi @ 150F, and I didn't know how that affected higher temps at lower pressures..).

Certainly ways to do it *cheaper* (I still have money/work needed to be spent on setting the tank up and insulating it) but it takes some time searching for the deals and putting in the work on something that's not just 'turn-key'.

I get what *YOU* area saying, and you're absolutely right, but if OP is willing to put the time into to searching for solutions and can make it work (I'm semi-handy and can weld), storage can absolutely be achieved for a reasonable price and quickly pay for itself.

 

[hobbyheater]

GREAT FIND

 

[airlina]

storage doesnt have to be crazy expensive . while i only have 500 gallons it works well for my 1700 sq ft home. Found a used propane tank for $200 , cleaned it ,then trailered it to the Econoburn factory (my boiler manuf.) and had the necessary ports welded on and 6" insulated for $600. This was in 2014 , and in todays inflationary world prices would certainly be higher , but not 10K!

 

[cumminstinkerer]

my storage tank is an anhydrous ammonia tank that got decommissioned because one of the brackets that mount to the axle cracked off for some reason, I bought it for 150 bucks, I installed my own plumbing fitting and pipes, its 1500 gallons

 

[salecker]

The tanks i used were old propane tanks, i still have a couple that may get used for my new shop if i go that route.
There is an Econoburn 300 sitting plugged solid and unused for the last 5 years i am hoping to get close to the free price.

 

[mark cline]

This is my storage, 3 500 gallon hot water tanks from a school for $2k , 200 gallon expansion tank for $100 . I have not been on here in quite a while , how ya’ll been doing? Mark

 

[airlina]

Mark , the fact that you haven't been on here usually means all is well in your boiler world . With energy prices the way they are , I suspect we're all glad we took the wood burning plunge and stick with it, i know I am after all these years with no regrets. Bruce