New Harmon P68 leaking smoke from ash pan door during power outage.

[Wildbil26]

Hello all!
I am a new member, but read posts on here for over a year to help me make a decision on what to buy. I have learned a lot so thank you to everyone so much! The information on this site alone is amazing. Onto my issue;
I bought a new Harmon P68 two weeks ago. I have been testing every pellet I can find, 5 bags at a time to see what I like best, again thanks to this site! We had a power outage a few nights ago and I immediately went to check on the stove. I had smoke coming out of the ash pan door, quite a bit of it, enough that I could see it in the basement clearly with a flashlight and it burned my eyes some after a few minutes. Not enough to set of the smoke detectors though. Upon inspection I found it was coming out of a few places around the door and the two small seams that run on the left and right side of the small space in the center outer part of the door (the space a fancy picture would normally go, picture attached.) Also you can see in the picture what looks like some of the gasket debris on the bottom of that space from a possible leak. That door was not too hot so I simply put some electrical tape over those spots then took some damp paper towels and tucked them around the door seam, this stopped the smoke from coming in.

What I need to know is this; is this normal? I called the company I bought it from and of course they said they would look at it but it is totally normal. I do not really trust them because we all know they just do not want to do free work on the stove.

The stove is in an unfinished basement, pipe goes up about 6 feet the makes a 90 out a basement window, about a foot out then another 90 and three or so feet up. It pulls fresh air from the house, not outside. The home is only twelve years old and very well sealed, too well in my opinion. Last, it was a pretty windy evening. I feel there could be an issue because the glass door seal never leaked, only the ash pan, even after I sealed the ash pan door.

I keep the stove very clean, mainly because every time I change pellet brands I want to see how they are effecting the stove. The dollar bill test seemed snug but still easily pulled out of both doors. A lighter test showed a few spots on the ash pan door that slightly pulled the flame in but none on the glass door. I am going to get an UPS to prevent this in the future but I have read pellet stoves need to be tightly sealed or they can get very finicky. The stove seems to be operating well, efficient and fairly clean burning but I am very new to this and wouldnt really know if it is great or terrible. I just see a decent fire and feel heat and it looks good to me! 🤷🏻‍♂️

Any advice is greatly appreciated and thank you again to everyone on this site for being such a huge help!

 

[johneh]

totally normal that's why most people with Harmans have a
battery back up to shut their stoves down during a power outage
Never had that problem with my Enviro and we have a lot of outages

 

[Wildbil26]

totally normal that's why most people with Harmans have a
battery back up to shut their stoves down during a power outage
Never had that problem with my Enviro and we have a lot of outages

Johneh,
Thanks for the reply! I have read so many posts on this and have seen some Harmon owners say its normal and some say its not. The internet is a great thing but can be crazy overwhelming sometimes! Do you think it is effecting the stoves efficiency? I guess what I should ask is would it be worth the few dollars to replace the seal on the ash door anyways? Ive seen some people say they replaced the 3/8 with a 1/2 seal and it worked great, stopped the leaks they had.

 

[Mt Bob]

Well, a few things. Rope/woven gaskets are not air tight, so this can happen. I usually seen it worse if the stove has been running high(tall flames) and there is more unburned pellet chunks in ash pan, and more in burn pot. It happens. You had 3 things going against you, basement install, no outside air and wind.It happens. A cheap UPS unit may have prevented it.
Now,as far as the ash door,that is the new style,I have never seen or been around one, and that would bother me, leaking at the indentation seams. Should not happen. Call your dealer about this, show him your pictures. He may want to just put some sealer on it, or get a new door, or both. Also,I think the ash door gasket is different than the old ones, might not be installed properly. If he is a good dealer, he will make a decision without even coming out there first.

 

[Wildbil26]

Mt Bob,
Thanks for the reply, great info. The rep is coming out to look at it this week. He has already told me that it is normal. He didnt seem like he wanted to be bothered with looking at it but is coming out to simply keep me happy so I am pretty sure he will say in a round about way “its normal deal with it.” I will update after they come out. Just doesnt seem normal for what is know as a top of the line stove and their biggest, best model.

 

[Mt Bob]

Smoke from gaskets can happen,yes. But ash and smoke from a unsealed joint is not.
Have a hair dryer handy, to blow around that joint, in case he brings no equipment.

 

[Wildbil26]

Havent had any ash come out of it yet but I keep the stove very clean. It dooes look like a tiny bit of the rope gasket (normal breakdown for a new gasket I assume) may have come from it though. It could have come from someplace else though, just odd it is only in that one spot.

I will keep the hair dryer with me, Maybe Ill just shut the lights off and cut the power to the unit so he can see for himself.

Thanks again, great info!

 

[mtnbiker727]

I think an outside air kit should be your next purchase/install.

 

[Wildbil26]

I think an outside air kit should be your next purchase/install.

Thanks for the reply. I am looking into that. I am going to speak to the rep when he comes out and ask why he didn't offer it at the time of install. I will be doing a lot more research on putting one in myself and the benefits.
Thank you!

 

[Tonyray]

Hello all!
I am a new member, but read posts on here for over a year to help me make a decision on what to buy. I have learned a lot so thank you to everyone so much! The information on this site alone is amazing. Onto my issue;
I bought a new Harmon P68 two weeks ago. I have been testing every pellet I can find, 5 bags at a time to see what I like best, again thanks to this site! We had a power outage a few nights ago and I immediately went to check on the stove. I had smoke coming out of the ash pan door, quite a bit of it, enough that I could see it in the basement clearly with a flashlight and it burned my eyes some after a few minutes. Not enough to set of the smoke detectors though. Upon inspection I found it was coming out of a few places around the door and the two small seams that run on the left and right side of the small space in the center outer part of the door (the space a fancy picture would normally go, picture attached.) Also you can see in the picture what looks like some of the gasket debris on the bottom of that space from a possible leak. That door was not too hot so I simply put some electrical tape over those spots then took some damp paper towels and tucked them around the door seam, this stopped the smoke from coming in.View attachment 293244 What I need to know is this; is this normal? I called the company I bought it from and of course they said they would look at it but it is totally normal. I do not really trust them because we all know they just do not want to do free work on the stove.

The stove is in an unfinished basement, pipe goes up about 6 feet the makes a 90 out a basement window, about a foot out then another 90 and three or so feet up. It pulls fresh air from the house, not outside. The home is only twelve years old and very well sealed, too well in my opinion. Last, it was a pretty windy evening. I feel there could be an issue because the glass door seal never leaked, only the ash pan, even after I sealed the ash pan door.

I keep the stove very clean, mainly because every time I change pellet brands I want to see how they are effecting the stove. The dollar bill test seemed snug but still easily pulled out of both doors. A lighter test showed a few spots on the ash pan door that slightly pulled the flame in but none on the glass door. I am going to get an UPS to prevent this in the future but I have read pellet stoves need to be tightly sealed or they can get very finicky. The stove seems to be operating well, efficient and fairly clean burning but I am very new to this and wouldnt really know if it is great or terrible. I just see a decent fire and feel heat and it looks good to me! 🤷🏻‍♂️

Any advice is greatly appreciated and thank you again to everyone on this site for being such a huge help!

We have a P61A. Have gone thru at least 5 power outages in past 7 yrs. Never any smoke escapes the stove. Reason?? We have an OAK installed. Any smoldering smoke slowly goes out the exhaust and air inlet to the outside. Install an outside air kit or at the least a battery back up. In your situation the smoke had lots of choices to escape out of the stove and into your house.

 

[Wildbil26]

We have a P61A. Have gone thru at least 5 power outages in past 7 yrs. Never any smoke escapes the stove. Reason?? We have an OAK installed. Any smoldering smoke slowly goes out the exhaust and air inlet to the outside. Install an outside air kit or at the least a battery back up. In your situation the smoke had lots of choices to escape out of the stove and into your house.

Thanks for the reply. I will be getting an ups for the stove next week for sure. The bigger concern I had was more where the smoke was coming from. A bit from the gasket but more from the spot I circled in the picture. I noticed today when cleaning the stove if I shine a light at the inside of the ash door where this seam is I can see light. Looks to me like something that should have been factory sealed because this is on the inner part of the door seal so even if the seal is good this would still leak, which means I am likely pulling air in through it on both sides which could effect the stoves efficiency.

Thanks for the info!

 

[gfreek]

Thanks for the reply. I am looking into that. I am going to speak to the rep when he comes out and ask why he didn't offer it at the time of install. I will be doing a lot more research on putting one in myself and the benefits.
Thank you!

Noticed here that many stove dealers say an outside air kit is not needed.. it only makes sense to have one..
As for the "gap" in the door, you would think that the pressure differential switch would cause the stove not to feed pellets..due to leakage...

 

[Tonyray]

Thanks for the reply. I will be getting an ups for the stove next week for sure. The bigger concern I had was more where the smoke was coming from. A bit from the gasket but more from the spot I circled in the picture. I noticed today when cleaning the stove if I shine a light at the inside of the ash door where this seam is I can see light. Looks to me like something that should have been factory sealed because this is on the inner part of the door seal so even if the seal is good this would still leak, which means I am likely pulling air in through it on both sides which could effect the stoves efficiency.

Thanks for the info!

The specs call for a 3/8 rope seal around the door but have read many times where they have removed it and put 1/2 " instead. They sell both sizes for our big harmans at pellet parts web sites. Could be the fix for the door.

 

[Wildbil26]

Noticed here that many stove dealers say an outside air kit is not needed.. it only makes sense to have one..
As for the "gap" in the door, you would think that the pressure differential switch would cause the stove not to feed pellets..due to leakage...

I am assuming it is because the leak is too minor for the sensor to recognize. It is a pretty small open gap but for the price of a harman youd think they would be built a little better than to have a seam like that.
That is exactly what the dealer said, OAK was not required. So I figured why spend the extra money? Now I wish I had 🤷🏻‍♂️ Live and learn…

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Wildbil26]

The specs call for a 3/8 rope seal around the door but have read many times where they have removed it and put 1/2 " instead. They sell both sizes for our big harmans at pellet parts web sites. Could be the fix for the door.

I am going to see about adjusting both doors a bit tighter first, if that doesnt help Ill just get the 1/2 one and go for it, couldnt hurt.

 

[johneh]

Brand new stove under warranty let the dealer fix it or replace it
I would be livid after spending that kind of money on a Harman
and see that their quality has gone the way of the dodo
just my nickels worth

 

[Tonyray]

I am assuming it is because the leak is too minor for the sensor to recognize. It is a pretty small open gap but for the price of a harman youd think they would be built a little better than to have a seam like that.
That is exactly what the dealer said, OAK was not required. So I figured why spend the extra money? Now I wish I had 🤷🏻‍♂️ Live and learn…

Thanks for the reply!

I bought my harman from a dealer who installs the OAK as part of installing the exhaust. Unless u decline. I didnt know what it was but it deff came in handy when power went out.

 

[gfreek]

Page 18 of Harman install manual:
Outside Air: Hearth & Home Technologies recommend attaching outside air in all installations, especially lower level and main floor locations.

 

[Mt Bob]

Noticed here that many stove dealers say an outside air kit is not needed.. it only makes sense to have one..
As for the "gap" in the door, you would think that the pressure differential switch would cause the stove not to feed pellets..due to leakage...

Nah, Harmans generally have great suction from the exhaust motor, especially the P series. Tey will generally still continue to run, with hopper lid open, as long as there are a few inches of pellets. Which is why they went to adding a hose for vacuum sensing to the hopper.But now I think all are now an electric switch.

 

[Wildbil26]

Brand new stove under warranty let the dealer fix it or replace it
I would be livid after spending that kind of money on a Harman
and see that their quality has gone the way of the dodo
just my nickels worth

Agreed. I am waiting on seeing the rep this weekend to see why the OAK wasnt offered and what he says about the ash pan door. Ill post after I talk to him.

 

[Wildbil26]

Page 18 of Harman install manual:
Outside Air: Hearth & Home Technologies recommend attaching outside air in all installations, especially lower level and main floor locations.

Yup, I read that after the install. Curious why the dealer that installed it hasnt read that? 🤦🏻‍♂️😂

 

[Mt Bob]

Because he is a poor dealer, or has poor employees.

 

[mtnbiker727]

Yup, I read that after the install. Curious why the dealer that installed it hasnt read that? 🤦🏻‍♂️😂

That's a really good question. When I questioned my dealer about it, he said if the house is older it's not tight enough to need one. I believed him. The next closest dealer said the same thing.

I still don't have one, but after reading the comments here, I will have one in my future house.

Without an OAK, the stove is pulling cold air through cracks in the house and into the stove. Theoretically, the harder the stove works, the more cold air it pulls through the house. With an OAK, the cold air is pulled into the stove directly, not through the house. This should translate to a warmer/less drafty house when it's super cold outside.

Also, with an OAK supplying ample air, combustion is better, so the glass should stay cleaner longer.

If your house is tight, you might have an issue when the stove is lit, if the hot water heater (if it's gas), the clothes dryer, and the bathroom fan are on all at the same time. The stove might not get enough air and have poor combustion.

 

[Tonyray]

That's a really good question. When I questioned my dealer about it, he said if the house is older it's not tight enough to need one. I believed him. The next closest dealer said the same thing.

I still don't have one, but after reading the comments here, I will have one in my future house.

Without an OAK, the stove is pulling cold air through cracks in the house and into the stove. Theoretically, the harder the stove works, the more cold air it pulls through the house. With an OAK, the cold air is pulled into the stove directly, not through the house. This should translate to a warmer/less drafty house when it's super cold outside.

Also, with an OAK supplying ample air, combustion is better, so the glass should stay cleaner longer.

If your house is tight, you might have an issue when the stove is lit, if the hot water heater (if it's gas), the clothes dryer, and the bathroom fan are on all at the same time. The stove might not get enough air and have poor combustion.

Also you are pulling in air you paid to heat as opposed to free outside air. Dealer sez you dont need an oak if house is not tight or leaky. Theoretically that is true but, air has to travel back to the stove for combustion. so many times you will have a cold draft running along your floors back to the stove. Has to travel somwhere to return for combustion.

 

[Wildbil26]

Install team

That's a really good question. When I questioned my dealer about it, he said if the house is older it's not tight enough to need one. I believed him. The next closest dealer said the same thing.

I still don't have one, but after reading the comments here, I will have one in my future house.

Without an OAK, the stove is pulling cold air through cracks in the house and into the stove. Theoretically, the harder the stove works, the more cold air it pulls through the house. With an OAK, the cold air is pulled into the stove directly, not through the house. This should translate to a warmer/less drafty house when it's super cold outside.

Also, with an OAK supplying ample air, combustion is better, so the glass should stay cleaner longer.

If your house is tight, you might have an issue when the stove is lit, if the hot water heater (if it's gas), the clothes dryer, and the bathroom fan are on all at the same time. The stove might not get enough air and have poor combustion.

Thanks for the great explanation. I never thought about all of that thank you. I will be installing one before next season for sure.