Newbie here with Vermont Castings Reliance 2220

[Bill A]

Hello
New to this forum and to wood pellet burners, but not to wood stoves and coal stokers.
I just acquired a VC Reliance 2220 from a local CL add.
The stove seems to be in fairly good shape, feeder works, exhaust blower works, and the two distribution blowers also work.

The problem right now is that the control board is non functional.
Now I know that these things are as rare as hen's teeth and that there are no spare parts and no documentation available for the board, so my plan is to build a new control system from a micro PLC.

My background is as a controls engineer and I previously built control systems for both my Harman Magnum and Harman VF3000 coal stoker, so I know this is a very doable task.

What I'm not sure about is the general operating parameters for this stove.

So if some of the VC pellet burners could chime in it would be a big help.

So here are the questions.

1. When running at a low firing rate, does the exhaust blower run full speed or did the controls vary the speed?
2. How often does the feed motor run at low fire and how high are the flames when running in low?
3. How often does the feed motor run at high fire and how high are the flames?
4. How high are the pellets in the burn pot at low and at high fire?
5. What kind of exhaust temperatures would you you expect to see at low and high fire?

Thanks much.
Bill A.

 

[Bill A]

The Reliance Lives again

The VC Reliance is once again a working pellet stove.

The main problem with the unit was the control board. The triac that controls the feeder motor was blown along with the inline fuse that protects it.
I replaced it with a new one from Mouser electronics and also found that a trace on the circuit board was broken that fed the local 12 volt supply.

The other problem with the stove was the exhaust temperature TC. All that was left of the original one was the wires. I bought a new one, a Tempco ungrounded type J from Ebay, problem solved.

After I had fired it up I noticed that smoke was coming from around the door frame. The cast iron frame and steel weldment were sealed with refractory cement which didn't take well to the bouncy ride in truck bringing it home. This required taking off the two side cast iron panels and sealing everything up with high temp silicone.

New gaskets and and a fresh coat of paint finished up the job.

This stove is pretty much all Harman on the inside, a Pellet Pro 2 control board, feeder and combustion blower.

It really is a pretty stove and it seems to put out good heat too.

Bill A.

 

[Ssyko]

Nice!! Welcome to the Hearth. Triac’s and optoisolaters seems to be an issue with alot of stoves. Nuthing like a good relay and rheostats. But society demands automation. Lol

 

[tbear853]

Just saw this ....
I have a Reliance 2220 that has burned between 3 -4 tons every year since 1992 when we bought new, last winter I was in hosp so no use then. It did get a new TC in about 1993 or so not long after purchase, otherwise it's been great. I will keep this thread in mind.

So if some of the VC pellet burners could chime in it would be a big help.

So here are the questions.

1. When running at a low firing rate, does the exhaust blower run full speed or did the controls vary the speed?
2. How often does the feed motor run at low fire and how high are the flames when running in low?
3. How often does the feed motor run at high fire and how high are the flames?
4. How high are the pellets in the burn pot at low and at high fire?
5. What kind of exhaust temperatures would you you expect to see at low and high fire?

Thanks much.
Bill A.

Guessing you don't need this now?

 

[Bill A]

The Reliance is up and running, has been burning for the last 5 days and so far so good.
The weather has been colder this weekend, dipping down into the teens at night and she has kept up keeping the living room at about 71 or so.
I have the stove dial set to about 8 or 9 o'clock which is low to medium low burn and it uses about 1 bag every 28 to 30 hours just like TBear said it would.

My initial impressions are its a bit noisier then when I tested it in the garage, probably didn't notice the noise out there. When the feeder runs it is quite a bit noisier, not excessive but definitely noticeable from across the room.

I ran the pellet vent into the original 6" double wall chimney and that seems to work very well. I intentionally pulled the plug and the chimney drafts well enough to keep all the smoke out.

Going to let it run 24/7 for now and will look for a local source of pellets in Sussex Co. NJ.

 

[tbear853]

Nice!

I think i'm gonna have to maybe regasket the door (s) this spring when I finish flue update, I'll likely pull it outside, go over fans, etc real good, check auger bearings, do a good low pressure dusting off of board. Maybe shop for a new thermocouple.

It started overfeeding pellets a few hours after clean & restart, but those pellets were 2+ years old at least, hopper was full last shut down late 2016. I've done a few scrapings since, seems to be doing OK now???

 

[tbear853]

The Reliance Lives again
… etc … All that was left of the original one was the wires. I bought a new one, a Tempco ungrounded type J from Ebay, problem solved.



Bill A.

Can you post a link to that?

Is this it? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tempco-The...h=item3641dd708a:g:u7AAAOSwnqpbtoTD:rk:3:pf:0

 

[Bill A]

This was the TC that I bought https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thermocoup...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

But the part # that you posted should work as well and it's cheaper.
What is important is that it is type J and the element is insulated from the outer metal sheath..

 

[Bill A]

So after living with the stove for a few weeks I had come to the conclusion that the exhaust blower was the source of most of the noise.
I took it out and ran it on the bench and noticed that besides the slightly unbalanced impeller, that the motor bearings were shot. It would hit a resonance point and really start a racket.

Looking around I saw that a replacement blower was north of $200, almost as much as I paid for the stove.
I also didn't like all the hardware that needed to be removed in order to clean the blower and the plenum beneath it.
Looking around I found a general replacement blower sold by Pellethead on Ebay that seemed to fit the bill, best of all it was only $99.

It had the same 4.75" impeller, a 3000 rpm motor, and it drew about the same current. It was also ball bearing and made by Fasco so that was the deal clincher.
I ordered the unit and installed it last Friday, much quieter.
I had to drill out the set screw on the old impeller, it was long since rusted tight.
After removing the old motor I used the supplied gasket to cut a 5" hole on the top of the blower housing to mount the new assembly. I made sure to paint the bottom of the mounting plate and impeller with high temperature stove paint and coat the motor shaft and set screw with never seize so future repairs would be easier.

Now when I want to remove the blower, it is only 6 small screws and the whole unit will lift off making cleaning much easier.
Its a lot quieter too when it runs.

 

[tbear853]

Well, still here, checking in. How is it holding up?

 

[tbear853]

Was going to reweld the burn pot on mine today, got to looking closer, the floor of the burn pot with the holes in it that gets scraped is cracked all the way across too, warped badly too, all that besides the opened seam, it's like 28 years old, so I just ordered a new burn pot. I have the gasket.

 

[Bill A]

Was going to reweld the burn pot on mine today, got to looking closer, the floor of the burn pot with the holes in it that gets scraped is cracked all the way across too, warped badly too, all that besides the opened seam, it's like 28 years old, so I just ordered a new burn pot. I have the gasket.

Sorry to hear that the burn pot is beyond repair.
Which burn pot did your order to replace it?
My Reliance is still chugging along fine, although I don't put a lot of pellets through it.
Good luck !

 

[tbear853]

Sorry to hear that the burn pot is beyond repair.Which burn pot did your order to replace it?My Reliance is still chugging along fine, although I don't put a lot of pellets through it.Good luck !

Well, it's likely repairable being as it's plain steel … but that plate with them little holes is warped pretty good besides the opened up weld seam at the forward edge, there is a crack from there that extends to the deeper part of the burn pot that creates a ledge right across the face where one scrapes.

I know I could make a new plate of like 1/4" steel, drill all the holes again, it would last forever then. Not sure how thick that OEM plate is, I might burn a hole through it trying to mend it? After I get the new one (should be here Saturday) I'll take a stab at weld & crack repairing the OEM one. I measured the bolts that secure it, 5" center to center across, 3.5" center to center up the sides, 1/2" wrench fits the nuts perfectly and a slight nudge tells me they are not rust frozen. I know the bolt pattern is the same on the part ordered too as I found the part listed on ebay … with tape measure in the pics.

Harman Accentra FS Burn Pot Weldment, # 1-10-08736 is what I ordered from https://pellet-stove-parts-4less.com/products/harman-accentra-fs-burn-pot-weldment-1-10-08736?

A few months ago I had ordered the gasket , it too matches. The set also included a gasket that goes in from behind after pulling the feed unit, but I doubt I'll pull it. The round part of the feed unit that the auger turns in actually extends into the burn pot side.

I will pull the rear cover and gently blow clean the control board of dust, oil bearings, maybe put that new feed motor/gearbox I bought a few years ago … and check auger bearings too. That burn pot looks exactly like mine except it has a long oval front door that leads in under the burn pot to allow replacement of any ignitor which mine does not have, but it will allow easy cleaning of the space. Mine is "pre-ignitor" era, had no such "easy access" provision and after a first season I found that the area was filling with ash and all I could get into it was my pinky, with no way to clean it good, so I took a 1-1/2" hole-saw and cut a hole in it under the front lip, used the plug cut piece to weld to a larger rectangle and drilled two 1/4" holes and threaded the burn pot part 1/4-20 … two short bolts … and it made it so much easier to clean out than that little tab & hole underneath.

My question is now "what goes bad" in a thermocouple? I have the OEM one that I thought was bad the first season, company sent me a new one. Looking back, it was a time I was trying different brands of pellets and I've had some that did not burn good since, but I just switched brands until I found Hamer's Hot One's, and now I wonder if that OEM installed TC was really "bad" after all?

Soon to be 30 years old, it doesn't owe me anything.

 

[Bill A]

Thermocouples burn out due to the temperature cycling and corrosion. The one Harmon uses must be electrically isolated from ground or damage to the circuit board will occur.

 

[tbear853]

Thermocouples burn out due to the temperature cycling and corrosion. The one Harmon uses must be electrically isolated from ground or damage to the circuit board will occur.

Thank You Sir!

Do NOT need "damage to CB" stuff. I have the Type J you linked to saved in my ebay, it's still available too ... but I have no real reason to think mine is gonna fail soon.

Must be like 3 of us on here with these VC stoves. :D If "or when" she dies, I'll likely go with new Harmon of some description.

Just curious, you don't ride a Gold Wing too do you?

 

[Bill A]

Thank You Sir!

Do NOT need "damage to CB" stuff. I have the Type J you linked to saved in my ebay, it's still available too ... but I have no real reason to think mine is gonna fail soon.

Must be like 3 of us on here with these VC stoves. :D If "or when" she dies, I'll likely go with new Harmon of some description.

Just curious, you don't ride a Gold Wing too do you?

I had a Goldwing for a while, a 1984 Aspencade 1200. It was too big for me so I now have a 2002 Silverwing scooter which is something Imy 64 year old legs can more easily handle.

 

[tbear853]

Wow, coincidences abound. I bought a '85 GL1200A in 1995, just sold it in Summer 2019. Also had a '97 GL1500SE that was converted to Lehman GTL trike in 1998, just sold it back to the original owner's son this past August. After swelling it, I put some parts up for sale, supplies, etc ... sent two 1500 saddle bags to a fellow in your town/city is why I asked. "Bike-less" @ 66 now, my balance is fubar after some surgery, but getting better, very very slowly so let the 2 and 3 wheelers go.

I wanted to tell you that Harmon burn pot weldment arrived, it is a better unit than my OEM in some respects I think, has a bigger longer access (I didn't measure, but guessing at least 1.5" high x 3" long window with a cover with slotted holes on each end tp slip down on the 1/4-20 wing type bolts) for the igniter which I don't have, but it'll make for easy cleaning in there. The welds are superb, likely robot done, and of robust steel plate. The floor of the burn pot area itself is a gentle "S" shape from the auger entry to top front ledge, where OEM was in one plane. Steel is 3/16 thick, and appears to be punched or plazma cut, almost polished edges. It is a nice piece.

Gonna work on it this week for sure, I'll just tap and put a screw in each of the two ignitor mount holes.

Gonna do a cleaning behind, oiling, put this weldment in ... then let her rip.

 

[Don2222]

Hi
I have a few manuals in my database.
Do you have these?
Vermont Castings Reliance Model # 2220 Owners Manual for use in North America
And
Vermont Castings Reliance Model # 2340 Owners Manual for use in North America

What is the difference?
Both manuals state
Model # 2220 - approx 6.5K to 35K BTUs?
Model # 2340 - approx 6.5K to 35K BTUs?

 

[tbear853]

Well, if you are asking me, the 2220 isn't listed for mobile home use.

I see no such disclaimer in the 2340 sheet you posted.

Now I will look to see if I can find any info or pics of a 2340?

Do they even make cardboard pellets?

I do have my 2220's papers in a file cabinet and in pdf. I did my install. "Heavy" comes to mind. Used oak boards as ramps to wheel it up onto the foot tall hearth I built in place using heavy HM welding tank cart/hand truck. Used a chain saw to cut a 12x12 square in the log wall to build my pass through with air gaps for flue exit and cold air intake ... after making sure there were NO 3/8" steel spikes in the cut area by probing between logs with hack saw blade.

I see (edit) now, 2340 looks like same stove as 2220, but offered in colors other than stove black? I don't know if 2220 came in colors now, I might could look deep in the cabinet for sales lit from 1992?

 

[Bill A]

The 2220 Reliance, the one that I have uses a welded steel heat exchanger with cast iron bolt on side panels and door. The 2340 was all cast iron.
The 2220 weighs in at 375#, the 2340 at 425#. The 2220 goes from 8K to 40K BTU, the 2340 from 6K to 35K BTU.

 

[Don2222]

Well, if you are asking me, the 2220 isn't listed for mobile home use.

I see no such disclaimer in the 2340 sheet you posted.

Now I will look to see if I can find any info or pics of a 2340?

Do they even make cardboard pellets?

I do have my 2220's papers in a file cabinet and in pdf. I did my install. "Heavy" comes to mind. Used oak boards as ramps to wheel it up onto the foot tall hearth I built in place using heavy HM welding tank cart/hand truck. Used a chain saw to cut a 12x12 square in the log wall to build my pass through with air gaps for flue exit and cold air intake ... after making sure there were NO 3/8" steel spikes in the cut area by probing between logs with hack saw blade.

I see (edit) now, 2340 looks like same stove as 2220, but offered in colors other than stove black? I don't know if 2220 came in colors now, I might could look deep in the cabinet for sales lit from 1992?

If you have any Sales Brochure please post it, that would be cool.

 

[tbear853]

Well today I removed the OEM burn pot from the VC 2220, it was worse than I thought. There is a long crack from front edge back into burn pot almost to the feed from the auger tube, and the 4th row of holes back is cracked all the way across the row of holes, the floor is buckled 1/4" out of "plane, so that was bad for proper air distribution through the flaming pellets, then the floor where welded to front plate was popped loose for a couple inches. Only proper way to fix that is cut and drill holes in a new plate, cut old out and weld new in.

Otherwise, the new replacement is just a little shorter right to left, not much though. I did notice excess weld that intruded into the round hole where the auger tube extends past the gasket into the weldment back, I removed it with my Dremel tool and a wheel. I filled in two igniter mount holes that I have no need for, threaded 1/4-20, started a screw in, spot welded the screw shank, then cut the excess off & ground smooth. The round hole is 2-3/8" diameter.

I used my 1/2" distributor wrencfh to loosen the 4 nuts, they were just "snug", then tapped the OEM weldment and it just slipped off. I slid the new one with the relieved round opening into place and I just snugged up those 4 nuts. Fit like it was made for it. No joke, those 4 nuts came off the studs and went back on like TSC store new nuts on bolts in the hardware section, no resistance.

I'm gonna try fixing the OEM one, replace the warped / cracked piece with about 1/4" steel, enlarge my front access for cleaning fines under the burn pot out, keep it with my new gasket. Yeah, I left OEM gasket in place, it was not torn, was not stuck, it was about perfect. It really only seals around the rectangle cool air intake as air is drawn in under vacuum anyway, the auger tube extends into the weldment through the gasket but the gasket does not see flame anywhere.

I still need to look up that sales lit. Today after sitting down on my hearth, turning to work inside the stove, my back is bugging me. All in all, glad I bought the new one, now I am free to make OEM better than it was.

 

[tbear853]

Something I forgot to address, the OEM burn pot weldment does have a sort of "hood" or deflector that might serve to push the flame closer towards the door, maybe to better mingle with the three faux logs, but I don't have a middle log that isn't broken in half, so the flame has more room between the back log bolted in place and the door mounted log. I thought on it and decided to add one as it'll help shield that bolted on back wall faux log and still allow pot cleans. I just took the 4 nuts off with a 1/2" universal on an extension, welded a 3/16" thick hood across it, sanded the edges, done..

Below is an after or NEW pic and a before or OEM pic side by side in one to illustrate the "hood" of which I refer. I might yet just rebuild the OEM one anyway. I suspect maybe the slightly narrower burn pot might lower heat BTUs, but I can accept some if it happens. We'll see soon.

 

[Bill A]

Great job Bear, so much detail especially in the pictures.
Would love to see pictures of the fire when you burn it.
I looks like there are more holes for airflow in the Accentra pot then in the original one.

BTW, from the two operations manuals, I found out that the 2220's were made from 1991 to 1992, the 2234 was only made in 1993.
Given that Harman stoves were mostly welded steel and VC only did cast iron, my guess was that Harman helped to design the heat exchanger as well as provided the mechanicals on the 2220. Not sure why the redesign eliminating the weldment, perhaps to help in cleaning the flyash which is difficult on the 2220.

 

[tbear853]

I counted in pictures, about 56 holes in the new Harmon before I added 4 (read on), so say 60 now , but there is about 82 holes in the OEM one but the ones in the OEM are smaller holes (I'll use up a couple-few bits if I make a new thicker burn pot floor plate for the OEM B-P, likely I'll measure holes OEM and "add ought & ought, multiply, etc", then drill the holes in my new floor to slightly larger size, just drill fewer of them to get to the same "exposure area" as OEM)? The OEM is "wider left to right". I too am anxious to finish maintenance items, oiling fans, flue cleaning, etc ... & to fire it up, but it's too warm here yet for fire.

The shortest row in the Harmon was missing some holes on what would be your right as you look in the stove, or on the stove's left. I suspect this was to get more air moving over on the other side through the pellets as that is where the igniter was mounted in the Harmon. After plugging igniter mount holes, I drilled 4 small holes to finish out the row.

Also of note, the Harmon floor plate is curved, front to rear, like a gentle "S", the OEM is flat. The very longest rom of holes are along the edge near the weld seam where it cracked. On the Harmon, the very first or longest row is on the forward edge of that "S".

Picture is from before I added the "hood" or "shelf" I mentioned earlier to the Harmon weldment. You can see how the OEM burn pot is a little wider and you can see that gentle "S" of the Harmon floor in profile. You can also see the access I added for getting fines out from under the OEM burn pot those years ago.