Newbie questions: B-vent vs direct vent, used or new stove. etc...

[Idowa]

I bought a 1.5 story house last year in a small town here in Palouse, WA. it is approximately 1300sq ft, built in 1895, has blown-in insulation, double-pane windows, vinyl siding.

Downstairs is the master bedroom and upstairs are the two smaller bedrooms. The upstairs is being slowly remodeled by me and there is currently no heat source.

The main floor is about 800 sq ft and heated with a late 70's-era fuel oil furnace rated at 64k BTU and located in a central location. It is vented via a 4" B-vent pipe through the original chimney. I rarely used it last winter due to fuel costs and instead used an oil-filled electric radiator next to the furnace and a portable electric baseboard heater.

It was a relatively mild winter last year and keeping the house temp at around 58 degrees cost me around $230 a month in electric bills. On nights where it dropped to near zero, I had to turn on the oil furnace to get the house to warm up. Needless to say, I froze my rear off most of the time and am ready to upgrade.

I've saved up $2k and wanted to install a gas stove where the oil furnace is. I was hoping to use the existing B-vent/chimney to vent the stove. It is in a central location in the home and would be an ideal spot for a gas stove with or without a blower.

However, I've found several good used gas stoves on Craigslist from $300 to $700 that are all direct-vent. I have a spot in the living room against an exterior wall in which a direct-vent would work, if it had a blower.

But, in the research I've been doing, I've gotten conflicting information on B-vent vs direct vent. I know I will have to buy a direct vent system to go through the exterior wall, which will cost me around $250 for the kit. But, some sources say direct vent is worth the extra expense because it is more efficient.

To get heat upstairs, I'm simply installing vents in the two bedroom floors to allow heat from the downstairs to rise. These are guest rooms and do not need to be heated full-time.

So, my questions:

1. What are the issues when buying a used gas stove? The cheapest new ones I can find are $1600. I can get a very nice condition Vermont Castings or Quadrafire stove for $300 to $500. Plus the cost of the chimney I'd have to install.

2. All the used stoves I've found (and new ones for under $2k) are rated at 35k BTUs or less. Will this be enough to heat my fairly energy inefficient home?

3. How about a new B-vent stove? I can use the existing chimney and the location is ideal for a central heat source. Total cost would be the $1600 to $2k for the stove, plus having black pipe ran from the new gas meter to the unit (I'm having all gas line work done by a contractor). If I buy a new direct-vent stove, then I have the additional chimney cost. But would it be worth it in the long run to go direct-vent vs B-vent??

 

[Wisneaky]

I'll try to help answer your questions.

1. The issues with buying used. As long as the burner and stove is in good condition you should be okay. But also remember there is no warranty with a used one.
2. Direct vent are more efficient so I would go the highest btu you could afford because with your house being old and energy inefficient.
3. One thing about direct vent you can pretty much install it in any location.

 

[DAKSY]

BTUs are BTUs. You will not get a gas stove, B-Vent or Direct Vent, that will be rated at 64K.
The larger ones are in the 40K range.
If you froze your rear of with what you have, installing something smaller in it's place doesn't make any sense at all.
I'd keep the oil unit & supplement it with a DV gas unit, located in your main living area.

 

[Idowa]

BTUs are BTUs. You will not get a gas stove, B-Vent or Direct Vent, that will be rated at 64K.
The larger ones are in the 40K range.
If you froze your rear of with what you have, installing something smaller in it's place doesn't make any sense at all.
I'd keep the oil unit & supplement it with a DV gas unit, located in your main living area.

I think you misunderstood; I froze my rear off because I relied on an oil-filled electric radiator and a portable electric baseboard heater instead of my oil furnace. I was forced to turn on the oil furnace when it got around zero outside. When I did run it, I set the thermostat at 70 degrees and it took about 15 minutes to get the house warm. Then it would shut off and sit about 20-25 minutes before it would kick on again, run for a few minutes and shut off.

I actually ran it last night when it got down to 40 degrees outside because I'm trying to drain the tank in anticipation of the gas stove. Again, it took about 15 minutes to get the house up to 70 degrees, but it wouldn't turn on again for about another 45 minutes with the mild outside temps.

So, I'm hoping I'll be just fine with 26k to 30k BTUs.

 

[Idowa]

Well, the gas company came by today and told me they were going to have to set the meter on the outside wall of my living room, which is the ideal location for a direct-vent stove. So, I'm going with a direct vent... If not, then I'd have to run 30' of black pipe to the other location.

The guy also informed me that the gas line install from the street to my house should be free if I'm replacing the oil burner with a natural gas stove. If not, then it would be around $1000 to get gas to my house.

So now, I'm trying to find a good deal on a used stove. There are two I'm looking at. One is a Vermont Castings Jefferson model for $450 which comes with a blower and thermostat and some extra piping. The other is a Quadrafire Castile which is like new, no blower, but has the complete chimney system included for $325.

Any input on those two brands?

 

[begreen]

I think you misunderstood; I froze my rear off because I relied on an oil-filled electric radiator and a portable electric baseboard heater instead of my oil furnace. I was forced to turn on the oil furnace when it got around zero outside. When I did run it, I set the thermostat at 70 degrees and it took about 15 minutes to get the house warm. Then it would shut off and sit about 20-25 minutes before it would kick on again, run for a few minutes and shut off.

I actually ran it last night when it got down to 40 degrees outside because I'm trying to drain the tank in anticipation of the gas stove. Again, it took about 15 minutes to get the house up to 70 degrees, but it wouldn't turn on again for about another 45 minutes with the mild outside temps.

So, I'm hoping I'll be just fine with 26k to 30k BTUs.

What are the input and output btus for the furnace? I would guess it closer to 85,000 btus. It can get very cold and windy in Palouse. Don't underestimate the need for heat when it's 10 degrees out and blowing 40mph. Also, be mindful that in very cold weather your furnace is protecting pipes from freezing. With no heat in the basement this may be an issue.

 

[Wisneaky]

That oil furnace actually sounds pretty good if it only runs for a few minutes every 20-25 minutes. You ever actually ran it long term to see how much oil it uses per day? Might be cheaper to run it at 70 degrees all the time than to use a gas stove or electric heater.

 

[Idowa]

That oil furnace actually sounds pretty good if it only runs for a few minutes every 20-25 minutes. You ever actually ran it long term to see how much oil it uses per day? Might be cheaper to run it at 70 degrees all the time than to use a gas stove or electric heater.

The problem with the gas furnace is it sits right in the main room of my house, is old and brown, and is about 75 decibels when running...

I'm picking up the Quadrafire tomorrow for $325 and it includes the complete chimney and vent system. I may add an additional stove for the upstairs once it's done.

 

[Tech Guru]

well the Jefferson model did come with the (gulp!) Honeywell Millivolt valve, but it can be retrofit if necessary using one of the kits (20010810 for NG, if my memory serves). Good little units otherwise. Fan kit has a value of about 340 list for a new kit, so if that's working it could be enough value added to make a difference. Cannot speak for the Quad...

 

[Heatsource]

i have the same quad in my house, love it!
highly recommend

 

[Idowa]

i have the same quad in my house, love it!
highly recommend

That's great to hear! Is it your main source of heat or a supplemental? How many square feet? Cost in gas during the winter?

The stove I bought was installed in the master bedroom and never used. It seriously looks brand new! The guy I bought it from bought the house this Summer and didn't want a stove in the bedroom, so he took it out. He gave me all of the chimney, the outside vent cap, the owner's manual, original bill of sale, etc. I paid him $325 and gave my dad a $50 bottle of scotch for picking it up for me.

The gas company said that because the gas line on my street was paved over when the city widened it, I have to pay for patching the asphalt. So, getting the meter set, line run to the house, and patching the street will cost me $292. I'm pretty happy with that. The contractor who is running the black pipe from the meter to the stove will be here Thursday. He has to run about 4' of pipe.

So, now I have more questions...

Since the stove didn't come with a blower, and I need to get the warm air from the stove to the rest of the house, how much better is a blower than a simple fan? I found an OEM blower kit for my stove for $263 online. Is it worth it?

Second, the stove has a rudimentary thermostat on it in the form of a dial that simply goes from higher to lower. I'd like something more sophisticated since this is my main source of heat. How much would that cost and how difficult is it to install?

Thanks!

 

[DAKSY]

I would try a fan to see how the heat moves throughout the house first.
It may be able to do what the blower would, & it'll be less costly & will
also be more quiet.
Generally speaking, a thermostat is simply a switch which opens & closes due to temperature.
You can sustitute ANY thermostat, as long as it is rated the same as the one you currently have.
It is probably a milivolt t-stat, so look around at what's available. Skytech remote thermostats are
very popular & can be used with gas stoves. I use them for BOTH of my gas units.

 

[Heatsource]

it only needs to heat about 600sqft, well insulated, modern. Never turned the furnace on!

shared gas meter so i'm not exactly sure about cost. (they have fuel cost comparisons on some websites you can crunch numbers if you want...)

the blower helps, and is pretty quiet on a low to medium setting. depending on your floor plan i recommend the fan.

uses Nova Sit valve, so t-stat or remote is easy to add

 

[Idowa]

Thanks for the great info, guys!

 

[Idowa]

UPDATE:

Installed the QuadaFire Castile and have been running it for a couple of months. I ended up paying $398 to have the gas line ran from the meter to the stove by a local contractor who did all of the permitting for the install and said my install was perfect.

The utility company ended up charging me $292 to install the meter since they had to dig up part of the street to get to the main line.

The stove doesn't have a blower or thermostat so I have been using a cheap all metal electric fan that sits on top of it and blows the warm air into the house. It works OK...

With the burner on the lowest setting and outside temps in the 20's, 30's and 40's, it keeps the living room at about 72 degrees and the bedroom and kitchen at around 65 degrees, which I find to be perfect. When it gets colder, that drops about 6-7 degrees and I have to turn the flame up.

Tonight, it is -2 degrees outside and I've had the stove going almost full blast for most of the day and the little fan cranked way up. It's 68 degrees in my living room and a chilly 58 degrees in my bedroom.

My first month's bill for November was $85 for gas and electric. December was a cold one and it was $158. That's still half what I was paying to heat with electric last winter and it wasn't nearly as warm in the house.

So, I'm happy. Will probably add a thermostat in a month or so to try and save a little on gas usage when I'm not home, but, so far the gas is so cheap that I'm not too concerned with letting it run all day while I'm at work.