Newer Kuuma Vapor-Fire 100 Owners Installation Process

[lampmfg]

I'm continually looking to improve our company processes. For owners who have gone through installation in the past year or so, what kind of information would help it go even smoother? With wood furnace sales increasing and us doing everything factory-direct, I want to be as efficient and effective as possible. I know videos have really helped, and Dale is great with people on the phone, but what topics would you like more detail on when installing? One video we plan on doing soon is attaching the blower to the furnace. We also plan on updating the manual in the future as well.

Here are our current videos https://www.youtube.com/user/Lampmfg/videos

Thanks,

Garrett Lamppa

 

[twilli91]

My VF100 shipped out today! I can report back once I start the install process. Dale has been great at taking calls and answering my questions as they come.

 

[mainer10]

Having just installed mine, you guys have done a phenomenal job laying out the installation process. Between the user guide, notes written on components, Dale being available by phone, and the videos, the average person can certainly install a Vapor Fire with relative ease. In fact, I would be inclined to add this forum as a source of information. Not only did I get turned onto the Vapor fire here, users assisted me troubleshooting my unique issue.

If I could offer one recommendation it would be taking the Youtube videos and arranging them in installation order. Take off the pallet move, move to location, hot air plenum etc.

I think what people need to really concentrate on is the duct work, which is not your responsibility, but renovating existing duct work takes a ton of planning.

 

[lampmfg]

Having just installed mine, you guys have done a phenomenal job laying out the installation process. Between the user guide, notes written on components, Dale being available by phone, and the videos, the average person can certainly install a Vapor Fire with relative ease. In fact, I would be inclined to add this forum as a source of information. Not only did I get turned onto the Vapor fire here, users assisted me troubleshooting my unique issue.

If I could offer one recommendation it would be taking the Youtube videos and arranging them in installation order. Take off the pallet move, move to location, hot air plenum etc.

I think what people need to really concentrate on is the duct work, which is not your responsibility, but renovating existing duct work takes a ton of planning.

Thanks for the feedback. It's greatly appreciated! We plan to update the manual at some point next year as well. I include links to this forum in my general e-mail for website inquiries. We appreciate all of the owners or anyone on here that helps others. Dale is a rock star...

 

[lampmfg]

I do have a furnace install playlist and updated the order. Thanks

 

[MooseBucks]

I paid my HVAC guy for the install but I’ve watched all the videos. They installed absolutely no issues from the manual.

 

[mikieb]

I just got done installing mine a week ago.... I have the return air hooked up and every thing.... it's all buttoned up for the next 20 years....

I have to say... I like the little notes taped to every thing.... every time I read one I could hear Dale's voice in my head as I read it.... kinda cheesy... but I have to say, I really liked having the notes taped to everything.

One thing to stress a little more was when you fire up the stove for the first time.... expect the whole house to be full of smoke... I did it on a warm 65 dergee day.... with all the windows open and I was just fine with it..... but, I am a single man.... If I had a women in the house.... there would have been a whole lot of squeaking.

The other thing is, the 120v part of the electric fan control has to be wired right... I cut a plug and wire off of an old washing machine to use as the plug in to the 120v wall outlet, and got the hot and neutral wires crossed and smoked the thing in the first two minutes.... I bought another one off of E-Bay for $50 and in three days had it wired right and it worked fine. (my goof)

I work in an office.... not very handy, But, I can get stuff done if I need to... I watched all the videos... read all the comments on the Hearth Form... And I got it all assembled and hooked up...

So, as far as I can say... The information and your company staff support, have the the installation for the average guy covered just perfect.

Good work men !

 

[Corzlot]

One thing I came across was that I had a reputable company do the whole install, and they put a backdraft damper in, but it was only 6 inches up the plenum from the furnace. I currently have it open permanently. But I did get a lot of over temp warnings the first year, and I thought it was the wood. I have since then found my problem. Having a little more guidance in the air space on top of the plenum would be helpful. I didn't know it could be a problem, but it was.

 

[JRHAWK9]

One thing I came across was that I had a reputable company do the whole install, and they put a backdraft damper in, but it was only 6 inches up the plenum from the furnace. I currently have it open permanently. But I did get a lot of over temp warnings the first year, and I thought it was the wood. I have since then found my problem. Having a little more guidance in the air space on top of the plenum would be helpful. I didn't know it could be a problem, but it was.

You have a gravity damper in the plenum of the Kuuma, meaning when the Kuuma's blower is off, it was closed? That's a no-no....if the power ever went out with a fire you would have no gravity flow. That damper should be in the plenum of the LP/NG furnace to keep the Kuuma's blower from back feeding into it.

 

[Corzlot]

Even in the installation manual, it shows it in the plenum for the vapor fire. It does say it needs to open in a power failure, but they did install it too close. And I didn't say it was a gravity damper, but I won't get into that. But it is useful to know not to put it too close to the top of the firebox.

 

[JRHAWK9]

Even in the installation manual, it shows it in the plenum for the vapor fire.

The area circled in cyan is the plenum. The part circled in red is in a duct connecting the Kuuma plenum to the plenum of the LP/NG furnace. So, no, the manual did not instruct you to put it in the plenum of the Kuuma.

And I didn't say it was a gravity damper

OK, good. It should be a power close, spring open damper.

 

[Corzlot]

So, you are correct, but what I guess I am saying is that DON'T put it in the plenum, and make it clear. I do not know why they did.

 

[JRHAWK9]

So, you are correct, but what I guess I am saying is that DON'T put it in the plenum, and make it clear. I do not know why they did.

Personally, I would call their a$$es back and tell them you want it installed correctly according to the instructions.

 

[brenndatomu]

The area circled in cyan is the plenum. The part circled in red is in a duct connecting the Kuuma plenum to the plenum of the LP/NG furnace. So, no, the manual did not instruct you to put it in the plenum of the Kuuma.


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OK, good. It should be a power close, spring open damper.

I don't care for the way that damper is shown in the duct there either...power goes out at the wrong time, things gonna get toasty!
I have one gravity damper on my system, but it is on the oil furnace, the damper on the Kuuma is a power closed/spring open...power goes out, lil miss Kuuma can gravity flow some heat off, no problem.

 

[JRHAWK9]

I don't care for the way that damper is shown in the duct there either...power goes out at the wrong time, things gonna get toasty!
I have one gravity damper on my system, but it is on the oil furnace, the damper on the Kuuma is a power closed/spring open...power goes out, lil miss Kuuma can gravity flow some heat off, no problem.

Mines setup the same as you.

The only damper that would work in their diagram, IMO, would be a power close/spring open one. Otherwise, like you said, it's a hazard.

 

[Micdrew]

I have one gravity damper on my system, but it is on the oil furnace, the damper on the Kuuma is a power closed/spring open...power goes out, lil miss Kuuma can gravity flow some heat off, no problem.

I have a power close spring open damper on mine, got me out of a pinch last year when the power went out 45min into a load, i took the front panel off and filters out, plenum got up to 180 then flatlined there. This year I cut in a 4”x10” Manuel damper that I keep half open all the time just to add some added protection being I have 0 gravity flow, I found it boosted the return air in the basement up 5 degrees, makes a big difference in the supply temp.

 

[JRHAWK9]

I found it boosted the return air in the basement up 5 degrees, makes a big difference in the supply temp.

yep!! Any increase in return air will make a difference in supply temp.

 

[Birdsell36]

Hopefully this is an okay place to put a general Kuuma question. I am in my first winter with the VF and still going through the learning curve. Tonight I loaded the firebox on a very healthy amount of coals, within a few minutes I had smoke coming out of the adjustable elbow connected directly to the VF collar. Magnehelic needle was shaking and draft was -0.06. Made the wrong decision and opened the door for a moment which caused the fire to roar. Draft spiked to -.10 and smoke now came out one of the joints on my connector pipe. I turned the dial down to low which closed the air intake to “1” and got the fire under control and the draft with the help of the BD. So was my issue loading on too many coals? Why did i have smoke out the joints with a -.1 draft? Was this something like rapid offgassing? Thanks!

 

[brenndatomu]

That makes no sense at all...how can smoke be coming out of the pipe/joints with draft that high?
You sure you aren't burning off some creosote ooze from an earlier time?
Loading on a ton of coals will certainly get things rockin n rolling in a hurry...sometimes sets the over temp alarm off too...if you have to load on a ton of coals due to a timing issue, try to load larger splits, that will help calm things a little...and no larger load than you have to...a huge load of smaller splits on a big pile of coals will get things cooking right now!
You can move the weight out on the baro door to help calm things down too (get the draft down closer to -0.04") just future FYI...

 

[Birdsell36]

Yep, I turned the dial to low and temporarily adjusted the BD to calm things down. But, that’s what I would like to figure out. Just wanted to throw this out there in case someone had a similar experience loading on alot of coals. Magnehelic reading is taken about 18” from the collar. Needle was vibrating rapidly during this time until things got under control. The leak occurred right off the collar and in the joint of the first 48” stove pipe section.

 

[JRHAWK9]

Yep, I turned the dial to low and temporarily adjusted the BD to calm things down. But, that’s what I would like to figure out. Just wanted to throw this out there in case someone had a similar experience loading on alot of coals. Magnehelic reading is taken about 18” from the collar. Needle was vibrating rapidly during this time until things got under control. The leak occurred right off the collar and in the joint of the first 48” stove pipe section.

I second what Bren is saying. This is a strange one. Do you have a photo of your stove pipe setup? I don't understand how that's even possible when the whole flue system is under negative pressure (excessive).

I've loaded on a pile of coals before and never had an issue. I do it a lot, every time outside temps get around or below 0°. Like Bren said, it can set of the firebox HT alarm, but that's really not even a big deal. It's there mainly to alert you just in case you left the ashpan door open or have excessive high draft or something.

Does your computer go to pilot (small 'c') at all during the burn cycle? The reason I ask is I want to make sure your TC is wired correctly, meaning the polarity is correct. If it's not, it can cause the furnace to run like crap and very dirty. Ask me how I know. LOL You can do a quick check to see if the furnace is running correctly by removing the heat exchanger cleanout door and taking a peak inside. If it's just white/brown flyash, you are good to go. If it's black shiny creosote, your TC is probably wired backwards.

 

[Birdsell36]

Yes, on reload it steps down from 3 to small c fairly quickly and stays on small c during the early part of the burn. I was just in the HX clean out the other day for a check and see the white fly ash that you mention so all is well there. Here are a few pictures… 2 adjustable elbows, 8 feet of stove pipe at a 20 degree angle, and a BD mounted horizontally.

 

[JRHAWK9]

I don't really see anything that jumps out at me. First thought was the BD is placed too far away from the furnace, but your draft sample point is right near the collar, and you say you are seeing sufficient draft at that point; I'm not sure if moving the BD closer to the furnace collar will help you or not.

Any loss of flue gasses out the stove pipe though would typically indicate bad or reverse draft. I would probably try moving your BD closer to the furnace. I'd put it soon after the bend coming out of the collar. As the BD may be keeping your draft in check at that point near the wall, but who knows what it may be for a split second at the furnace collar. There has to be some draft issue causing things to down draft like that.

Also, I have both a Dwyer and a Magnehelic and the Dwyer is MUCH more responsive to draft changes. The Magnehelic may not be picking up on everything that is going on with your draft at times. My guage on my Magnehelic barely moves at all when it's windy out, but my Dwyer will.

 

[Birdsell36]

I don't really see anything that jumps out at me. First thought was the BD is placed too far away from the furnace, but your draft sample point is right near the collar, and you say you are seeing sufficient draft at that point; I'm not sure if moving the BD closer to the furnace collar will help you or not.

Any loss of flue gasses out the stove pipe though would typically indicate bad or reverse draft. I would probably try moving your BD closer to the furnace. I'd put it soon after the bend coming out of the collar. As the BD may be keeping your draft in check at that point near the wall, but who knows what it may be for a split second at the furnace collar. There has to be some draft issue causing things to down draft like that.

Also, I have both a Dwyer and a Magnehelic and the Dwyer is MUCH more responsive to draft changes. The Magnehelic may not be picking up on everything that is going on with your draft at times. My guage on my Magnehelic barely moves at all when it's windy out, but my Dwyer will.

Thanks for your thoughts. I will just continue to burn and if the scenario is replicated make a note of weather, coal bed size, draft, etc. I do plan to reconfigure the stove pipe in the spring. When this is completely the BD will end up a good distance closer to the VF and back in a vertical position.