NH Bans sale of non EPA used OWBs

[peakbagger]

NH already had banned the sale of new OWBs but they now are banning the sale and installation of used non EPA OWBs http://www.fosters.com/news/20170907/new-law-bans-older-uncertified-outdoor-wood-boilers.

There has been abuse of the prior state law which banned the sale of non certified new OWBs. Folks were buying effectively brand new OWBs usually from out of state being sold as "used" by various sellers. The buyer still has to meet some fairly restrictive rules to legally install them, but the state had elected not to prosecute buyers who may not have understood the rules.

I personally have had issues with a neighbor who installed a used OWB ignoring the rules in place for siting (a minimum of 200 feet from the nearest abutter with a stack discharge above the roof line of the nearest adjacent home within 300 feet). After several complaints to the town he improved the installation by installing a taller stack but it still was an issue. Heating oil was cheap the last couple of winters so he shifted away from using it during shoulder seasons which helped a lot. I expect his spouse and family probably appreciated it also as the low level acrid smoke is pretty unpleasant.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Iv seen OWB owners routinely burn wet wood and stumps in them ,so its no wonder they sit and smolder all day pissing off the neighbors. Even with an EPA certified stove ,wet wood will not help the smolder situation.

 

[Highbeam]

About time. We can't buy, sell, install, or even give away a non-certified stove. Some places are not even allowed to use their non-certified stove even if it was legally installed 30 years ago!

 

[Ashful]

About time. !

If we're talking about the installation or use of non-EPA burners, then I'd agree. These guys give all wood burners a bad name, and cause undesirable attention toward heating with wood.

However, I don't understand the interest in banning EPA approved installations. OWBs can be made to burn clean, with the right tech, maintenance, and burning practices... no?

 

[Highbeam]

If we're talking about the installation or use of non-EPA burners, then I'd agree. These guys give all wood burners a bad name, and cause undesirable attention toward heating with wood.

However, I don't understand the interest in banning EPA approved installations. OWBs can be made to burn clean, with the right tech, maintenance, and burning practices... no?

I was speaking to blocking up the loophole that allowed for the installation of non-EPA stuff. Hard to believe that you can install pre-EPA stuff anywhere whether it's stoves, boilers, furnaces, etc. when an EPA certified version exists. The only challenge is that the EPA hadn't figured out a testing protocol for all types of solid fuel burners.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

The big challenge is trying to educate people about dry wood. Just because you can burn just about anything in an OWB doesnt mean you should.

 

[Bad LP]

But what about "Live Free Or Die"?

 

[peakbagger]

I am all for" live free or die" as the person living free is the one deciding if he wants to die. In the case of OWBs the individual installing them in an inappropriate location with neighboring homes has the right to poison himself and his family including his children but when it starts impacting neighboring homes its stepped over the line and deserves regulations.

I have seen some atrocious installations in my travels where the OWB is cranking out low level smoke directly into the owners home but as long as they are in remote location with no neighbors I figure its the Darwin effect kicking in.

 

[Fred61]

Thanks for setting me straight. I always thought the motto was LIVE, FREEZE & DIE.

 

[Bad LP]

Thanks for setting me straight. I always thought the motto was LIVE, FREEZE & DIE.

I'll have to remember that one.
I have no use for those disgusting OWB. I can't imagine the stink getting into the house. Some people just suck and others are plain stupid but having the state step in with the EPA regs is a nanny state move IMO. Town level control could have been just as effective.

I went with an indoor unit for many reasons. One of them was the wind blows in many directions and having that smoke blowing in the direction of the house was a non-starter.

 

[peakbagger]

Until my neighbor put in a much higher stack (he had to put in phone pole to support it), my attic smoke alarm was going off on occasion as the smoke got sucked in via my soffit vents. I had some foam work done and ended up going with a "cold roof" concept on my rear roof closest to the boiler so I could seal off the soffits.

The bummer was he had a Tarm indoor wood boiler without storage previously and had so many chimney fires and plugged flues he cracked his tile and melted a flexible chimney liner. Had he put in storage he would have been far ahead compared to what he dumped on his OWB installation. He easily burns triple the amount of wood I do. (some of its related to square footage and bizarre design choices for northern NH).

 

[Bad LP]

Until my neighbor put in a much higher stack (he had to put in phone pole to support it), my attic smoke alarm was going off on occasion as the smoke got sucked in via my soffit vents. I had some foam work done and ended up going with a "cold roof" concept on my rear roof closest to the boiler so I could seal off the soffits.

The bummer was he had a Tarm indoor wood boiler without storage previously and had so many chimney fires and plugged flues he cracked his tile and melted a flexible chimney liner. Had he put in storage he would have been far ahead compared to what he dumped on his OWB installation. He easily burns triple the amount of wood I do. (some of its related to square footage and bizarre design choices for northern NH).

Ya can't fix stupid.

 

[Ashful]

Ya can't fix stupid.

Yes you can, but most of the solutions are... unpalatable.

 

[LocustPocust]

EPA or Non EPA, if you burn wet wood in it you'll have smoke. A few miles down the road from me there's someone who has an OWB and it's going 24-7/365. Belching out smoke no matter if it's 100 degrees or below 0, sometimes so much smoke they've had the Fire Department called a few times. They get wood log length, cut it up and throw it in. What a waste of wood why not just buy an electric hot water heater for the warmer months and save the wood? Between buying and working up the wood and burning cords upon cords just for hot water electric wouldn't cost that much more.

 

[maple1]

EPA or Non EPA, if you burn wet wood in it you'll have smoke. A few miles down the road from me there's someone who has an OWB and it's going 24-7/365. Belching out smoke no matter if it's 100 degrees or below 0, sometimes so much smoke they've had the Fire Department called a few times. They get wood log length, cut it up and throw it in. What a waste of wood why not just buy an electric hot water heater for the warmer months and save the wood? Between buying and working up the wood and burning cords upon cords just for hot water electric wouldn't cost that much more.

It should actually cost significantly less.

 

[Highbeam]

EPA or Non EPA, if you burn wet wood in it you'll have smoke. A few miles down the road from me there's someone who has an OWB and it's going 24-7/365. Belching out smoke no matter if it's 100 degrees or below 0, sometimes so much smoke they've had the Fire Department called a few times. They get wood log length, cut it up and throw it in. What a waste of wood why not just buy an electric hot water heater for the warmer months and save the wood? Between buying and working up the wood and burning cords upon cords just for hot water electric wouldn't cost that much more.

People probably say the same thing about me and my wood stacks, burning 24/7 for 9 months of the year. I burn cleanly but people still think it's crazy to burn wood instead of just turning up the thermostat. Why would anybody work so hard to keep a fire going all the time? It's what I do.

So I say let them burn that thing 24/7/365 but not if it you can't do it without damaging your neighbor.

 

[Fred61]

I'm not sure what the boiler manufacturers have done to make them EPA compliant but if they did it by converting to gasification those operators will get the surprise of their live when the house goes cold. All the wet wood in the world will not heat the boiler to the temps needed to heat their home.

Also, I believe it would take a cord of wood to heat my DHW over the summer (non heating months). Assuming the average cord of wood is valued at $185 to $225 the average household would spend significantly less with an electric water heater

 

[maple1]

I'm not sure what the boiler manufacturers have done to make them EPA compliant but if they did it by converting to gasification those operators will get the surprise of their live when the house goes cold. All the wet wood in the world will not heat the boiler to the temps needed to heat their home.

Also, I believe it would take a cord of wood to heat my DHW over the summer (non heating months). Assuming the average cord of wood is valued at $185 to $225 the average household would spend significantly less with an electric water heater

Agreed 100%. I estimated I would burn 1-1.5 cords over a summer just for DHW - vs. $30/mo. doing with with an electric water heater. So unless I have junky (but dry) stuff to get rid of, I quit burning when the house doesn't need the heat. Factor in my indoor setup also contributing stand by and lost heat to my house (not a lot, but still, it's some) during the summer when there is already too much heat in there - uh, no. That wouldn't apply a lot to an OWB setup - but then you'd need to factor in the extreme amounts of time the OWB would spend smoldering. And smoking. Not a $$ factor, but still a factor.

 

[LocustPocust]

I burn cleanly

Keyword: Cleanly

 

[Highbeam]

Keyword: Cleanly

Absolutely. I didn't write it for fun and it is key to all of us that burn stuff instead of using electricity for energy. If we can't do the burning without polluting out environment then we won't be doing it long.

 

[peakbagger]

Lot to be said for a couple of PV panels and heat pump hot water heater for summer plus shoulder season hot water plus free dehumidification in the basement. I have a solar hot water system that I installed a long time ago that works fine but given the major drop in PV prices and the ease of small PV installations using microinverters its hard to justify the steep upfront cost for a dedicated solar hot water system. Even if you dont install PV its still cheap way to heat hot water, the PV just makes it "greener".

One of the members on Hearth sells add on heat pump hot water heaters for cheap on Ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Heat-Pu...004504?hash=item41cf8d1758:g:RMQAAOSwj0NUa3~6.

 

[StihlKicking]

I burn 365 and save a lot of money, but
1. I have no neighbors
2. My heater is installed in a location that doesn't affect my home
3. Wood is free and so plentiful that I will never burn or saw all that falls on the place in a year.

All that being said I do burn about 1.5 cords a year just in DHW but 1.5 cords of wood that would otherwise rot on the ground is still cheaper than anything else.


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