Nightmares -- or daydreams -- on 2021 pellet costs?

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SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
Called to check again after a couple of weeks. My pellets are all ready to go... on a mountaintop in West Virginia. No trucks. Latest estimate 7-10 days. Fortunately, it's still nice and warm here. Just last week had a new "combi-boiler" installed to heat the house so, no matter what, we won't freeze.
Transportation today is a real PITA. Everyone is having issues finding drivers and independents are almost non-existent. My buddy has 53 trucks and 15 are sitting for lack of drivers presently. His drivers average 80K a year, some are over 100K and he still cannot find qualified drivers. I have my Class A with all endorsements and I could work tomorrow, but after 30 years of trucking, I've had a belly full. It's a high stress job dealing with idiot 4 wheelers (and other idiot truck drivers and the man with his hand out constantly). I have an excellent retirement package plus I farm. Enough for me.

Got 3 ton of pellets in the barn and 7 ton of no germ corn to roast this winter.
 
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johneh

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2009
4,361
Eastern Ontario
My spring buy pellets were just delivered
1 skid Cubix 349 a ton plus tax
1 skid of Energex Blended 309 a ton plus tax
Less 10 dollars per ton for using a prefered payment
delivery free
 
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SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
My spring buy pellets were just delivered
1 skid Cubix 349 a ton plus tax
1 skid of Energex Blended 309 a ton plus tax
Less 10 dollars per ton for using a prefered payment
delivery free
I bet the delivery charge was rolled into the price somehow. You pay VAT on them correct? Gotta keep Tredeau in razor blades...
 

johneh

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2009
4,361
Eastern Ontario
You pay VAT on them correct?
We call it HST Harmonized sales tax
Some for the Doug the slug Ford (Premier of Ontario)
some for Justin (Prime Minister of Canada)
VAT is a value-added tax (Great Britain)
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
We call it HST Harmonized sales tax
Some for the Doug the slug Ford (Premier of Ontario)
some for Justin (Prime Minister of Canada)
VAT is a value-added tax (Great Britain)
Appears to be real harmonious to me....

Had no idea what it was called except a tax. Living 50 miles from the border is as close as I'll ever come.

No tax on wood pellets here, unless you don't have an ag exemption, then it's 4% I think. Don't know, never paid it. Certainly no tax on shelled corn, that is 100% an ag commodity.
 

tlc1976

Minister of Fire
Oct 7, 2012
1,139
Northwest Lower Michigan
Appears to be real harmonious to me....

Had no idea what it was called except a tax. Living 50 miles from the border is as close as I'll ever come.

No tax on wood pellets here, unless you don't have an ag exemption, then it's 4% I think. Don't know, never paid it. Certainly no tax on shelled corn, that is 100% an ag commodity.
Yes 4% on anything considered home heating fuel. Pellets, propane, fuel oil… Technically firewood too but all of my 45 years I’ve only seen it dealt by private sellers on the side for cash.
 

bogieb

Minister of Fire
Oct 31, 2014
3,168
South Central NH
I was talking to the local TSC manager about trailers yesterday and happened to mention that I have not seen very many pellets being sold on FBMP and CL - most years I get probably around 1.5 tons of pretty good pellets for cheap. This year, the best I could do was buy about 1/2 ton of some middling pellets for $4/bag (still cheaper than at the store, but not nearly what I'm used to being able to find).

I asked about the TSC store supply and he said they had over 300 tons already sitting there and they are getting 30-40 tons per week. They have been told not to worry about supply as there is no anticipated shortage or difficulty in trucking (this store sells MWP's in the white w/blue lettering TSC bags). He also said that they aren't anticipating a huge price increase.

I have no reason to doubt him and hopefully and nothing comes about that changes what his outlook for the season foretells!
 
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tiger

Feeling the Heat
Feb 3, 2014
437
Seabrook, MD (DC suburbs)
Called to check again after a couple of weeks. My pellets are all ready to go... on a mountaintop in West Virginia. No trucks. Latest estimate 7-10 days. Fortunately, it's still nice and warm here. Just last week had a new "combi-boiler" installed to heat the house so, no matter what, we won't freeze.
Got a call yesterday, now on the schedule for delivery Tuesday, almost exactly 2 months after buying/paying for my pellets.

Unsure of Hamers' location, I got on their website and their mailing address is in a WV town near Huntington, right on the Ohio river and plenty of highways... but no address specified for the actual plant. Probably a "You can't get there from here" scenario.
 

ABusWrench

Burning Hunk
Sep 11, 2015
219
East Canton, Ohio
Got a call yesterday, now on the schedule for delivery Tuesday, almost exactly 2 months after buying/paying for my pellets.

Unsure of Hamers' location, I got on their website and their mailing address is in a WV town near Huntington, right on the Ohio river and plenty of highways... but no address specified for the actual plant. Probably a "You can't get there from here" scenario.
Hamer's Hot Ones come out of Elkin West Virginia.
 

tiger

Feeling the Heat
Feb 3, 2014
437
Seabrook, MD (DC suburbs)
Hamer's Hot Ones come out of Elkin West Virginia.
Aah, there they are, I see the location on Google Maps. I've been in Elkins exactly once. Routes 250 & 33 are a blast in a sports car - but I'd see the reluctance to drive a truck with a 20 ton load there.

And good news; delivered today. Already got one ton in the basement, that's enough workout for one day for a 65-year-old.
 
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teucer

New Member
Jan 26, 2022
4
Massachusetts
If you take a piece of lead and grind it into dust and compress said dust into a pellet, then take aluminum bar stock and do the same, you'll have two pellets with two different weights because the density of the compressed pelletized materials within are of differing densities. Further, if you did take all the sap out of softwood, which is not possible simply by kiln drying the pellet, you'd simply end up with a wood pellet of lesser density than its hardwood counterpart. In order for a stove to burn hardwood efficiently, it should have excellent draft or else it will clinker in the burn put as some of you have alluded to. Harwood pellets burn longer because, simply, there's more wood in said pellet to burn! Softwood pellets burn for a shorter time because there is less material in each pellet to burn and said burn is accelerated by sap that is not found in hardwoods. That being said, sap produces creosote at higher rates than does wood without and will create a dirtier burn overall, all other factors being equal. I have to disagree with the presumption that softwood pellets are of higher quality than the hardwood pellets. Imagine paying more for softwood anything; I wouldn't.
 
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Pete Zahria

Minister of Fire
Jan 6, 2014
1,234
New Hampster
mcmanusfuels.com
Imagine paying more for softwood anything; I wouldn't.
As long as you are happy with them, keep using them.. :)

Everyone has their favorites.
We've sold thousands of tons of pellets, and get maybe 3 calls a season
asking for hardwood... Usually from former wood burners..
We have a few that like them for boilers, we get them a blend.
Other than maybe 6-8 ton a year, that's it.
I understand how you arrived at your conclusion, but it is not actually correct.
The resins in the softwood, have more heat value, than the wood.
So.. pound for pound,
the softwood will have more BTU's (heat output) than the hardwood..

I usually burn 100% white pine, or Douglas Fir.
My glass is clean, and I empty the ash bucket a couple of times a season.
Unlikely results using bargain hardwoods, or blends...
Creosote? I haven't seen creosote since I stopped using firewood..

Dan
 
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Mt Bob

Minister of Fire
Oct 31, 2013
4,035
park county montana
If you take a piece of lead and grind it into dust and compress said dust into a pellet, then take aluminum bar stock and do the same, you'll have two pellets with two different weights because the density of the compressed pelletized materials within are of differing densities. Further, if you did take all the sap out of softwood, which is not possible simply by kiln drying the pellet, you'd simply end up with a wood pellet of lesser density than its hardwood counterpart. In order for a stove to burn hardwood efficiently, it should have excellent draft or else it will clinker in the burn put as some of you have alluded to. Harwood pellets burn longer because, simply, there's more wood in said pellet to burn! Softwood pellets burn for a shorter time because there is less material in each pellet to burn and said burn is accelerated by sap that is not found in hardwoods. That being said, sap produces creosote at higher rates than does wood without and will create a dirtier burn overall, all other factors being equal. I have to disagree with the presumption that softwood pellets are of higher quality than the hardwood pellets. Imagine paying more for softwood anything; I wouldn't.
Sounds good in theory, but I disagree with some of it.Hard and soft pellets are compressed to a very similar density..That is why a 40lb bag of either has almost identical dimensions when filled. Both are required by standards to provide 8k to 8500 btus. Lignin is required to hold pellets together. Softies tend to have more,naturally, so require less or no fillers.For that reason, lignins, softies tend to burn hotter and faster.Hardwoods tend to have more fillers,which may or may not burn clean. Dirtier burn? Prove it.
The biggest factor is QUALITY of the pellets,hard or soft.
 

Tonyray

Minister of Fire
I burn good softies in my P61A.. Matra, EasyBlaze and doug firs..
all in the upper 8K btu. I get a light colored powdery ash or residue in my exhaust tunnel at best...
my biggest complaint with most softies is lot of fines in the bags..
they get pushed into the burpot mostly but still i usually vacuum out the fines box periodically..
I know there are very good hardwoods out there like Turmans etc but never again would
i buy box store bargain stock...low 8K btu mostly...
too many times back in the newbie days I would come down
in the morning and flames almost smothered.
looked like a candle in the middle of a birthday cake..
I know that is not the case with all hardwoods but I'm fine with softies past 7 years...
 

Tonyray

Minister of Fire
As long as you are happy with them, keep using them.. :)

Everyone has their favorites.
We've sold thousands of tons of pellets, and get maybe 3 calls a season
asking for hardwood... Usually from former wood burners..
We have a few that like them for boilers, we get them a blend.
Other than maybe 6-8 ton a year, that's it.
I understand how you arrived at your conclusion, but it is not actually correct.
The resins in the softwood, have more heat value, than the wood.
So.. pound for pound,
the softwood will have more BTU's (heat output) than the hardwood..

I usually burn 100% white pine, or Douglas Fir.
My glass is clean, and I empty the ash bucket a couple of times a season.
Unlikely results using bargain hardwoods, or blends...
Creosote? I haven't seen creosote since I stopped using firewood..

Dan
Funny how people willing to spend 50 bucks or more a week on takeout that lasts one hour or less but wont spend 50.00 or so one time for 50 bags of pellets that will last month or maybe more for many...just my 2 cents..
 

Mt Bob

Minister of Fire
Oct 31, 2013
4,035
park county montana
Funny how people willing to spend 50 bucks or more a week on takeout that lasts one hour or less but wont spend 50.00 or so one time for 50 bags of pellets that will last month or maybe more for many...just my 2 cents..
Yep, failed logic on their part.
 

johneh

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2009
4,361
Eastern Ontario
Don't care if they are softwood or hardwood
I will use a pellet that I find gives me the most heat
on a -35::C Day .
The ones I like the best are hardwood
So I burn a certain brand of hardwood
Tried others have always gone back to them
IT WORKS FOR ME
If you want to know the brand ask me
 

Dataman

Minister of Fire
Sep 10, 2018
1,119
Newport, Wa
No Hardwood Pellets except for the ones for Food (Cooking BBQ). Those are spendy. Everything is Softwood here in Pacific NW (E Wa State). No one sells heating Hardwood Pellets. I use North Idaho Energy Log Pellets.. Great heat and little ash. Got a choice coming up in Feb. Down to 21 bags that I have out of Pallets (2 Tons Sitting). But too much snow to get them except by Wheelbarrel. Seems I will be buying them by bag to finish out eating season. Too much snow in the way to back porch.

IMG_20220108_071024708.jpg
 

Tonyray

Minister of Fire
No Hardwood Pellets except for the ones for Food (Cooking BBQ). Those are spendy. Everything is Softwood here in Pacific NW (E Wa State). No one sells heating Hardwood Pellets. I use North Idaho Energy Log Pellets.. Great heat and little ash. Got a choice coming up in Feb. Down to 21 bags that I have out of Pallets (2 Tons Sitting). But too much snow to get them except by Wheelbarrel. Seems I will be buying them by bag to finish out eating season. Too much snow in the way to back porch.

View attachment 290755
Your lucky to be where douglas firs come from. Almost 9K Btu. Most box store stuff here are in the low 8K. Due to shipping costs doug fir back here in the east are over 400.00 ton. But there are prob 50 brands or more of hardwoods all over. Some great , some good, but lot of mediocre stuff at box stores.
 
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Tonyray

Minister of Fire
Don't care if they are softwood or hardwood
I will use a pellet that I find gives me the most heat
on a -35::C Day .
The ones I like the best are hardwood
So I burn a certain brand of hardwood
Tried others have always gone back to them
IT WORKS FOR ME
If you want to know the brand ask me
Softwoods give me the most heat. If Turman hardwoods were available here i would buy them.
 

rickwai

Minister of Fire
Nov 1, 2011
1,325
ohio
Here in Ohio I have never seen softwood pellets in the past 20 yrs.
 
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teucer

New Member
Jan 26, 2022
4
Massachusetts
As long as you are happy with them, keep using them.. :)

Everyone has their favorites.
We've sold thousands of tons of pellets, and get maybe 3 calls a season
asking for hardwood... Usually from former wood burners..
We have a few that like them for boilers, we get them a blend.
Other than maybe 6-8 ton a year, that's it.
I understand how you arrived at your conclusion, but it is not actually correct.
The resins in the softwood, have more heat value, than the wood.
So.. pound for pound,
the softwood will have more BTU's (heat output) than the hardwood..

I usually burn 100% white pine, or Douglas Fir.
My glass is clean, and I empty the ash bucket a couple of times a season.
Unlikely results using bargain hardwoods, or blends...
Creosote? I haven't seen creosote since I stopped using firewood..


Dan
The resins in softwood indeed act as an accelerant and cause the softwood pellet to burn hotter but it will burn for a shorter time.
 

Tonyray

Minister of Fire
The resins in softwood indeed act as an accelerant and cause the softwood pellet to burn hotter but it will burn for a shorter time.
maybe..... haven't burned hardwoods in so long I cannot do a comparison for hours burned on a full hopper.
 

ABusWrench

Burning Hunk
Sep 11, 2015
219
East Canton, Ohio
Here in Ohio I have never seen softwood pellets in the past 20 yrs.
It's the same over here in this part of the state. Haven't seen a softwood pellet in person in the 8 yrs I've been burning. One local hardware store has them on their webpage, but never in stock. Menards lists a softwood, but they're special order. There are usually 8-10 different brands of hardwood pellets available around here.