NY natural gas ban update
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Burnin Since 1991
Feeling the Heat
The climate changes... Everything changes. I'm 66 years old. Before I ever realize a ROI on any of the EV, solar, wind, hydro, whatever, Only my survivors might see an ROI on money I spent. Don't forget the threat of cows farting increasing methane gas. The BS never stops. Oh and my favorite is buying carbon credits, Help me understand how that could possibly do anything to help anything? Except enhance the wealth of the wealthy.
I’m without power tonight. It’s just above freezing and pouring outside. The woodstove is quietly heating the place without a fan.
I can run gas without electricity. I can run a woodstove without electricity. Winter can be deadly without heat up here.
I can run gas without electricity. I can run a woodstove without electricity. Winter can be deadly without heat up here.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Yes but increasing electricity costs will shorten that. Tax credits and utility incentives made it profitable after say 10 years in the average market. It’s probably still profitable in highest electric cost markets but those are moving away from full net metering.
I got 1/2 my system paid for. I’ll bread even at current rates in 10 years. You could figure it would take 20 without incentives.
if looking at only emissions they yes. But it a renewable energy source. It probably has a lower carbon footprint than any fuel source and probably. Do I expect another tightening of wood stove emissions in the next decade, no. Next 20 years yes. Just look a Fairbanks, populated parts of BC. Those are the models.
Any tightening of emissions or restrictions of NG should be accompanied by building code improvements increasing insulation and requiring AHC50 tests on new construction. This BS that the contractor can sign off saying “I built it tight” is absolutely ridiculous.
I agree that insulation is the answer to many of our energy issues.
Let people choose their own source of energy. They will act in their best interest. If the product is right, they’ll adopt it. Otherwise the politicians could easily make you give up the vacation mobile you just bought for a Prius. It doesn’t matter if your family doesn’t fit in a Prius. The politicians decree it due to the way the wind is blowing.
Let people choose their own source of energy. They will act in their best interest. If the product is right, they’ll adopt it. Otherwise the politicians could easily make you give up the vacation mobile you just bought for a Prius. It doesn’t matter if your family doesn’t fit in a Prius. The politicians decree it due to the way the wind is blowing.
Burnin Since 1991
Feeling the Heat
Yes but there is a problem with that. The ego driven group that knows what is best for us wouldn't be able to vent their egos.
Burnin Since 1991
Feeling the Heat
100% on that too. Bigger Govt = More restrictions/ laws/ rules etc. I don't need anyone sitting on my shoulder telling me what to do.
Of course I grew up in the day of riding in the back of pickup trucks, no seat belts no air bags, no car seats for the little ones. No helmets no knee pads pretty much no anything. Now that want assisted suicide so that the ones they keep alive with all of the above can get out of here.
I'm sorry but sometimes the world doesn't make sense.
My natural gas furnace doesn't work when the power goes out.
Stove works, so does my natural gas water heater with town water so I have heat from the wood stove, hot water, and a stove to cook on when the power goes out. You couldn't pay me to get rid of my natural gas. (Well I guess you could, but it would require a very large sum of money)
Haha. Unpopular opinion. My house is 20' from the end of a gas main, and the gas co said they would charge me $40k to extend the main 20' so I could get a hookup. I told them to pound sand. That was 20 years ago.
I ripped out the old, inefficient oil boiler in my 1960 house (that nearly poisoned my family with CO too), and put in a heatpump. I lose electricity, sometimes for days, and have a woodstove as backup heat. No Big Deal.
If you don't believe in global warming in 2025, or believe any of the >100 year old science behind CO2 and methane being the cause of it, I am not going to convince you. The fact is that outside of Yemen, Russia, North Korea and a few corners of the US, everyone in the world is pretty clear, and is remaking their energy systems because of it.
Money spent on expanding the gas grid is a WASTE of money. That is why I am against it, its a waste to build something very expensive that will be unwanted in a few years. The expansion is desired by municipal gas companies to lock in customers, especially poor ones, for years into the future. That money would be much better spent on expanding the electrical grid, and building new cheap generation and storage sources.
Existing natgas customers will switch away from it IF and WHEN superior/cheaper alternatives become available. Kinda like how much of the Mid-Atlantic region switched away from #2 HHO over the last couple decades. And how most of the country stopped burning coal in their homes decades ago.
And if rural folks want a clean storable gaseous fuel for heating, running a genny or whatever, propane fills that bill perfectly, and is not going to go anywhere for many decades. Propane is a byproduct of much of US oil production.
I ripped out the old, inefficient oil boiler in my 1960 house (that nearly poisoned my family with CO too), and put in a heatpump. I lose electricity, sometimes for days, and have a woodstove as backup heat. No Big Deal.
If you don't believe in global warming in 2025, or believe any of the >100 year old science behind CO2 and methane being the cause of it, I am not going to convince you. The fact is that outside of Yemen, Russia, North Korea and a few corners of the US, everyone in the world is pretty clear, and is remaking their energy systems because of it.
Money spent on expanding the gas grid is a WASTE of money. That is why I am against it, its a waste to build something very expensive that will be unwanted in a few years. The expansion is desired by municipal gas companies to lock in customers, especially poor ones, for years into the future. That money would be much better spent on expanding the electrical grid, and building new cheap generation and storage sources.
Existing natgas customers will switch away from it IF and WHEN superior/cheaper alternatives become available. Kinda like how much of the Mid-Atlantic region switched away from #2 HHO over the last couple decades. And how most of the country stopped burning coal in their homes decades ago.
And if rural folks want a clean storable gaseous fuel for heating, running a genny or whatever, propane fills that bill perfectly, and is not going to go anywhere for many decades. Propane is a byproduct of much of US oil production.
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Burnin Since 1991
Feeling the Heat
Perhaps unpopular in your position. I'm looking big picture and NG in my area is by far the least expensive means of heating. (Besides wood, pellets or whatever you burn)
NG isn't going anywhere and neither is propane, gasoline or oil. There are fools making decisions about energy in this world that need to stop making decisions in a bubble.
Look at the UK. Look at what is still on the books in NY. (The list is too long, I will stop there) When they started building wind and solar farms they told us our rates for electricity would go down. That was a lie. What good is all the research in the world if people can't have lights, heat their homes and cook their food? I've been listening to this global apocalypse and energy BS since the 70's and guess what. We're all still here. Millions aren't dying from global warming, global cooling, climate change, or other BS that the people with all the money have been trying to push on us.
Oh and for all the climate alarmists in the world: The climate changes. It has for billions of years. It changes here about every 10 minutes.
The wealthy buy carbon credits and proclaim they are cancelling out the carbon footprint that their massive homes and buildings that they build, luxury gasoline vehicles they drive, jets and airplanes they travel in.
Electricity isn't as clean as it is proclaimed. Much of it is produced in ways that create just as much "pollution" as they would like us to eliminate. (oil fired, gas fired, garbage burning incinerators, nuclear...)
You do you. Save the planet. I'll do me and eat hot food, drink cold water and stay warm in the winter.
Burnin Since 1991
Feeling the Heat
One more thought. I don't begrudge anyone who wants to do solar and wind power or hydro power or whatever works in their situation. I think self sufficiency is paramount.
I was a boy scout. I was in the Army and Air Force and I've have spent many cold days and nights away from home. I'm not a combat veteran but I trained many, many years in case that was needed and I was prepared to defend my country from forces foreign and domestic.
I have seen what happens when you don't prepare for life. Life can bite you in the @$$ hard. Really hard.
In my house, if the power goes out and my house gets cold, my wife doesn't care how much money we've spent. If the food is cold and the house is cold and the pipes are freezing she isn't looking at the power company for answers, she's looking at me and wanting to know how come we weren't prepared.
Nothing wrong with solar, I have solar panels on my roof and love them but I still am not giving up my natural gas.
I have made post before on how I believe individual homes providing their own power is the ideal solution, but, I have to agree with this. Do we all think that the large energy conglomerates are going to let that happen? To much. money invested in large scale power production.
New technologies also make burning NG and propane much cleaner then it used to me. NG or propane combined with solar, geothermal or wind is a great option, IMO.
In a sense, this is how I heat my house. I have a hybrid propane/heat pump that keeps my temp consistent but I run the woodstove for the real heat. If the power goes out, I don't need the furnace and when everything is working correctly, I maybe use 1 tank of propane a year.
There’s actually a new gas main coming down my street. I’m assuming to either replace the old one or supply all the new developments with gas.
I personally view solar with a battery bank and a large propane tank as the ultimate way to be off grid.
I personally view solar with a battery bank and a large propane tank as the ultimate way to be off grid.
When I switched from oil to NG, they ran the line for no charge. I had to stay on gas for 3 years though. That was probably 15 years ago.
So, you are listing all the usual tired talking points:
--Global warming is not a threat.
--Renewable Energy (and electricity) is too expensive.
--Renewable Energy is not actually clean.
--Climate friendly energy solutions will require us to use less energy, and less reliable energy, and sit around cold in the dark.
--The folks behind renewable energy are actually energy guzzling elites, or misinformed fools living in a 'bubble'.
I think I got BINGO. 2007 called and want their talking points back.
The reality is that nearly the entire world is switching en masse to cheaper and cleaner, reliable green energy, both for electricity and light vehicle use. This switch will take a couple decades to complete, and is necessary to preserve a global climate that resembles the one we currently live in, for future generations. This change will also have the net effect of avoiding millions of premature deaths from air pollution.
While this change is happening, legacy energy companies have hired a lot of tobacco lawyers, shady PR firms and well paid social media influencers to spread misinformation that looks a lot like the talking points you are spouting.
The big question is 'who is in the bubble?'
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Who has lost power during the winter due to lack of supply? Texas that’s right. They refused regulate the industry to be able to function during temps, that anyone who cared to look at historical weather data would have said are probable multiple times during the life of that generating station. Green power and regulation has improved the resilience of the CA.
Consistent policy encourages infrastructure investments that have ROI much longer than a single administration.
Wake up! China has us over a barrel, India is building a barrel under us right now! If you want to compete in the Global economy you must keep up with the rest of the world. US energy policy is not. Electricity power manufacturing. Cheap electricity from renewables reduces costs. I’m not telling anyone to ditch NG. By all means keep it. Just don’t pretend is the cleanest choice. It may still be a cheap choice but those big pipelines are to ship it to overseas which means the price will go up. We have accessed all the easy/cheap to produce gas already. That means new production will be more expensive and cost the end user more.
Similar rules here for a side branch off the main. But if they need to extend the main, then its $$$.
Venting that amount of CO, CO2 and NOx into the room is not a safe way to heat. It could lead to the death of a family in a tight home.
