old wood boiler

[sootsucka]

I was wandering how much less wood would I use if I updated my boiler. I have an old energy mate boiler in outside shed. It works pretty well, burns any thing i put into it,wet,dry,still standing, doesnt matter she'll burn it. I been thinking about an eko 40 for up grade, but dont know if worth it. I have about 30 acres of mixed wood mostly red oak. So getting wood free (except labor) is not a problem. I just dont know if the cost of a new boiler outways just cutting up more wood. I already have a 500 gallon propane tank for storage that i was going to hook-up to the system anyway so storage in not a problem. I also wanted to thank every-one for such a great site. I have learned so much.

 

[shoeboxlen]

if what you got works i cant see a good reason to change it. maybe you will save a little wood by being abit more efficitent but it will take a long time to save enough over your existing setup to rationalize the expense of the upgrade. thats just my .02

 

[Jeff S]

A year ago I was in this same delema,In my case my boiler was a Chappee 26 that had a very small firebox I believe it was designed for coal but also burned wood,anyways I was constantly filling the firebox.I contemplated adding storage to it but never did.After some serious thought my wife and I decided to sell the old boiler and apply the money towards an EKO25 and some storage tanks.Although my wood is free I find my self using about 40% less and only burning 6-8 hours a day compared to around the clock and can even leave for a weekend if we desire.

Another bonus is we bought our boiler last January,in February Obama signed the Tax credit bill retroactive to the first of the year.This was just an added bonus since we never figured this into the equation when we decided to purchase.

In my case I am very pleased that I upgraded to one of the new gassifiers.

Food for thought,because of the economy many of these boilers have come down in prices and the fact you can take advantage of the tax credit until the end end of 2010 this is a good time to upgrade if your in the position to do so.

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

I was wandering how much less wood would I use if I updated my boiler. I have an old energy mate boiler in outside shed. It works pretty well, burns any thing i put into it,wet,dry,still standing, doesnt matter she'll burn it. I been thinking about an eko 40 for up grade, but dont know if worth it. I have about 30 acres of mixed wood mostly red oak. So getting wood free (except labor) is not a problem. I just dont know if the cost of a new boiler outways just cutting up more wood. I already have a 500 gallon propane tank for storage that i was going to hook-up to the system anyway so storage in not a problem. I also wanted to thank every-one for such a great site. I have learned so much.

Hi; I owned an Energy Mate boiler. Does yours have the V shaped firebox? This is a 50 percent efficient boiler as mentioned in the owners manual. That said this can easily fire at 150,000 btu. An EKO 40 will use a lot less wood, it probably won't have the power of the EM though. You might want to consider getting 2 500 gallon propane tanks so you can just let the EM run flat out. They produce little creosote if they don't idle. I would run what you got, Randy PS I just remembered that mine was in my basement & the considerable heat loss from this unit was not wasted. I'm not sure what the btu input into water is. The EKO 40 will probably easily put more actual heat into the water than the EM.

 

[sootsucka]

Thanks for the replies.I had a frozen pipe this morning in crawl space. DAMN WIND! OK the EM does have the v shaped firebox. I also added a couple of firebrick up in the firebox to kinda slow down the draft . It seems to burn hotter. I dont know if it more efficient but exhaust temps dont hit 900 anymore. Does this thing get about 50% efficiency,I just cant believe that with those exhaust temps.

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

Thanks for the replies.I had a frozen pipe this morning in crawl space. DAMN WIND! OK the EM does have the v shaped firebox. I also added a couple of firebrick up in the firebox to kinda slow down the draft . It seems to burn hotter. I dont know if it more efficient but exhaust temps dont hit 900 anymore. Does this thing get about 50% efficiency,I just cant believe that with those exhaust temps.

900 is nothing for this boiler. I talked to the engineers & flue gas can hit 2400 degrees. This is measured in the center of the flue pipe with the pipe starting to glow. The outside of the pipe at this point will be about 1200 degrees. Basically you have the secondary burn chamber of a gasser in the flue pipe. The factory states 50 percent, not sure if this is accurate though. Don't try to burn coal in this, as I paid good money to find out, hard coal needs a straight side firebox to burn & this doesn't have the air controls for soft coal. The EM was redesigned with a straight side firebox & shaker grates in later years. This is not an easily controllable boiler, at least mine wasn't, Randy

 

[sootsucka]

LMAO I know exacty what you mean of the glowing pipe.I have this boiler in a shed and if I burn alot of pine I get flames shooting out of my chimney (single wall pipe about 20 feet) It was quite scary the first time, now its cool, It cleans the chimney and fun to watch. Does this thing need to burn that hot to be efficient, I usually burn about 300 to 400 degrees (magnetic temperture gauge) not worried about creosote as I burn it off every now and again. I was thinking of dropping some coal in with the wood to get alittle longer burn times but I guess thats a no no

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

LMAO I know exacty what you mean of the glowing pipe.I have this boiler in a shed and if I burn alot of pine I get flames shooting out of my chimney (single wall pipe about 20 feet) It was quite scary the first time, now its cool, It cleans the chimney and fun to watch. Does this thing need to burn that hot to be efficient, I usually burn about 300 to 400 degrees (magnetic temperture gauge) not worried about creosote as I burn it off every now and again. I was thinking of dropping some coal in with the wood to get alittle longer burn times but I guess thats a no no

You can mix coal & wood & you will get lots of heat. My point was that if you tried to burn just anthracite that it dies off in a V shaped firebox, thats what mine did every time. Because this is in a shed you don't have the worries I had & you can run it hot & clean the chimney. My masonry chimney looked like it was lined with black glass with the creosote. I had draft that exceeded .2WC & this is 10 times the draft that some are running(.02) so you should have less trouble with the boiler running away than I did. The 300 to 400 sounds good as this is actual 600 to 800 flue gas in center of pipe. I put petroleum coke in mine & said to the supplier that I didn't notice much difference from coal. He said "you didn't light it off". I tried 2 more times & finally it light, talk about heat, heat poured out the non wet based boiler, raised the water temp in a very short time. I don't see that a gasser will gain you that much with the exception of less wood cutting. Me personally, I got more wood than money, Randy

 

[LeonMSPT]

Barometric damper will cut the draft and allow longer burn times, but chimney has to be kept clean, especially the connector pipe between the boiler and the chimney... keep the fire out of there and chances are no chimney fire... connector pipe fire will nearly certainly become a chimney fire with a BDD...

LMAO I know exacty what you mean of the glowing pipe.I have this boiler in a shed and if I burn alot of pine I get flames shooting out of my chimney (single wall pipe about 20 feet) It was quite scary the first time, now its cool, It cleans the chimney and fun to watch. Does this thing need to burn that hot to be efficient, I usually burn about 300 to 400 degrees (magnetic temperture gauge) not worried about creosote as I burn it off every now and again. I was thinking of dropping some coal in with the wood to get alittle longer burn times but I guess thats a no no

You can mix coal & wood & you will get lots of heat. My point was that if you tried to burn just anthracite that it dies off in a V shaped firebox, thats what mine did every time. Because this is in a shed you don't have the worries I had & you can run it hot & clean the chimney. My masonry chimney looked like it was lined with black glass with the creosote. I had draft that exceeded .2WC & this is 10 times the draft that some are running(.02) so you should have less trouble with the boiler running away than I did. The 300 to 400 sounds good as this is actual 600 to 800 flue gas in center of pipe. I put petroleum coke in mine & said to the supplier that I didn't notice much difference from coal. He said "you didn't light it off". I tried 2 more times & finally it light, talk about heat, heat poured out the non wet based boiler, raised the water temp in a very short time. I don't see that a gasser will gain you that much with the exception of less wood cutting. Me personally, I got more wood than money, Randy

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

Barometric damper will cut the draft and allow longer burn times, but chimney has to be kept clean, especially the connector pipe between the boiler and the chimney... keep the fire out of there and chances are no chimney fire... connector pipe fire will nearly certainly become a chimney fire with a BDD...

LMAO I know exacty what you mean of the glowing pipe.I have this boiler in a shed and if I burn alot of pine I get flames shooting out of my chimney (single wall pipe about 20 feet) It was quite scary the first time, now its cool, It cleans the chimney and fun to watch. Does this thing need to burn that hot to be efficient, I usually burn about 300 to 400 degrees (magnetic temperture gauge) not worried about creosote as I burn it off every now and again. I was thinking of dropping some coal in with the wood to get alittle longer burn times but I guess thats a no no

You can mix coal & wood & you will get lots of heat. My point was that if you tried to burn just anthracite that it dies off in a V shaped firebox, thats what mine did every time. Because this is in a shed you don't have the worries I had & you can run it hot & clean the chimney. My masonry chimney looked like it was lined with black glass with the creosote. I had draft that exceeded .2WC & this is 10 times the draft that some are running(.02) so you should have less trouble with the boiler running away than I did. The 300 to 400 sounds good as this is actual 600 to 800 flue gas in center of pipe. I put petroleum coke in mine & said to the supplier that I didn't notice much difference from coal. He said "you didn't light it off". I tried 2 more times & finally it light, talk about heat, heat poured out the non wet based boiler, raised the water temp in a very short time. I don't see that a gasser will gain you that much with the exception of less wood cutting. Me personally, I got more wood than money, Randy

Leon; It's nearly impossible to keep fire out of the flue pipe on this boiler. The only heat exchage surface is the underside of a horseshoe shaped tank & this doesn't take out much heat & flame. I ran a baro. & maybe this was responsible for much of the creosote. I think the trick to this boiler is don't idle it or you will have a chimney fire in the making as you say. With all it's faults the EM can still crank out the heat, Randy

 

[LeonMSPT]

Barometric damper will cut the draft and allow longer burn times, but chimney has to be kept clean, especially the connector pipe between the boiler and the chimney... keep the fire out of there and chances are no chimney fire... connector pipe fire will nearly certainly become a chimney fire with a BDD...

LMAO I know exacty what you mean of the glowing pipe.I have this boiler in a shed and if I burn alot of pine I get flames shooting out of my chimney (single wall pipe about 20 feet) It was quite scary the first time, now its cool, It cleans the chimney and fun to watch. Does this thing need to burn that hot to be efficient, I usually burn about 300 to 400 degrees (magnetic temperture gauge) not worried about creosote as I burn it off every now and again. I was thinking of dropping some coal in with the wood to get alittle longer burn times but I guess thats a no no

You can mix coal & wood & you will get lots of heat. My point was that if you tried to burn just anthracite that it dies off in a V shaped firebox, thats what mine did every time. Because this is in a shed you don't have the worries I had & you can run it hot & clean the chimney. My masonry chimney looked like it was lined with black glass with the creosote. I had draft that exceeded .2WC & this is 10 times the draft that some are running(.02) so you should have less trouble with the boiler running away than I did. The 300 to 400 sounds good as this is actual 600 to 800 flue gas in center of pipe. I put petroleum coke in mine & said to the supplier that I didn't notice much difference from coal. He said "you didn't light it off". I tried 2 more times & finally it light, talk about heat, heat poured out the non wet based boiler, raised the water temp in a very short time. I don't see that a gasser will gain you that much with the exception of less wood cutting. Me personally, I got more wood than money, Randy

Leon; It's nearly impossible to keep fire out of the flue pipe on this boiler. The only heat exchage surface is the underside of a horseshoe shaped tank & this doesn't take out much heat & flame. I ran a baro. & maybe this was responsible for much of the creosote. I think the trick to this boiler is don't idle it or you will have a chimney fire in the making as you say. With all it's faults the EM can still crank out the heat, Randy

Might well be true, never actually "seen one". But as you said, running ten times the design draft would certainly draw fire and flames into the connector and chimney. Runaway conditions would nearly always be the rule. I know my flu connector pipe temps were running 675/850 before I put a BDD on my wood boiler. As long as I keep the connector pipe clean now they generally hold below 375/400 and that's only a peak burn conditions after loading. The owners manual was pretty explicit in recommending a BDD, within two feet of the boiler, set at NO MORE THAN .02 inches...

It's also why I really like feeding it coal now too... much longer burn times, steadier heat, and no creosote at all. I'll still burn wood in it when demand is high and I am home. Nothing "wrong" with it, just prefer coal and buying wood anyway so things work out. The coal is cleaner, takes up less room, easier to handle... I can move a days worth of heat in one trip... 50 pound bag in each hand. A days worth of wood in the critter would be two wheelbarrow loads on a cold day.

 

[WoodNotOil]

I noticed in this thread https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/50758/ that one of the users did some modifications to an older wood boiler that might interest you:

I have added firebrick & a grate inside, and an external flue-gas heat exchanger in the style of a 55 gallon drum with some baffles (a lot of heat goes up the stack. it's easy to get flu temps over 1000* within 18" of the outlet without even trying). It smokes quite a bit when it cycles, but with the firebrick, it is much better once it gets heated up. Once it has burned for about 5-10 minutes, the smoke dissipates to near-zero. I'm working on an arduino control system at the moment, just got the sensors yesterday. I've also acquired some (rock-wool?) insulation to wrap the girl in so she can stay warm...

A heat exchanger on the flue would definitely lower flue temps and increase efficiency.

If money isn't the biggest stumbling block, just put in a gasser. Between the tax credit and the stablized prices of these units it is a good investment. You will burn less wood, not have to to worry about your chimney, and be reducing the amount of carbon emitted from your setup. (Gasser put more carbon into the ash and less into the air. Some claim as much as 2/3 less is emitted to the air than traditional wood boilers.) You can add the 500 gallons of storage you have and even design it so you could add another 500 in series later. Size the boiler and storage for the amount of times you want to burn every day and you will have an efficient and convenient heat source.