OWB selection Central Boiler E-Classic 2300

[JrCRXHF]

Has anyone used this stove yet?

I have a 1962 3400sqft house that use to be my grand fathers it has 2 fireplaces in it but they are not for heat just looks. I am going to build a 24x32 garage soon and i want to add a outdoor wood burner beside it and heat the house along with the garage. The current furnace is killing me for heat this winter I paid $450-$500 a month for NG alone. I have hot water base board heat now. I have looked at the wood gasification stoves but i really don't want to hold heat in water and i don't want the wood inside the house. I saw on a web site that the E-Classic 2300 was 98% efficient could this be a mis-print.

one fire place

indoor grill.

 

[Eric Johnson]

It's not a misprint. It's a lie.

Overall efficiency (which is the only measurement that counts) is typically below 50% for OWBs and in the 80-90% range for gasifiers. Those are theoretical efficiencies. Actual mileage is usually much lower in most cases, under actual battlefield conditions.

There are a couple of OWB-style gasifiers being introduced, but none has a track record that I'm aware of. Proven gasifier designs can be put into a small shed or other outbuilding, which gives you the advantages of an OWB, but without all the smoke and high wood consumption. Hot water storage is a nice option, but it's not absolutely necessary in most cases.

 

[JrCRXHF]

so what you are saying is that a Gasification boiler will use almost 1/2 the wood of a OWB. But the OWB will be able to burn more "Junk wood" so they both have there cost advantages. How much more is the Gasification boiler then the OWB?

 

[Eric Johnson]

You'll have to do your own pricing research. For some idea of what gasifiers go for, you can click the top banner for Cozy Heat. They list the delivered prices for various models. My guess is that when all is said and done, they're roughly the same, except that you need to build a shed to house a gasifier, and that adds to the cost.

The only "junk" wood you can't burn in a gasifier is green or wet wood. Any wood that is sufficiently dry will burn well. You can burn just about anything in an OWB, but your neighbors will probably call the cops if you do. Your heat output will really suffer with green wood and you'll get an inordinate amount of noxious smoke and creosote if you try to burn it in any boiler.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

I've never tried to burn 'green' wood in my GreenWood, but it will burn 'wetter' stuff that has laid around and picked up outside water. It will smoke more with that moisture content, and will have a harder time delivering useful heat if the demand happens to be high.

Don't believe anyone that tells you one model can burn 'junk' wood markedly better than the rest. The BTU output comes from the density of the wood. And it consumes BTU's if it has to heat the water in the wood up to the point that it turns to steam to then exit the stack.

Conversely, run properly I believe (based on my observations of other users) you can make an OWB burn realativly smoke free.

Honestly, the effort used up to go collect 'junk' wood is wasted time and effort. As the Tarm guy says, "burn oil until you get better wood".

 

[Eric Johnson]

Jimbo and I spend a lot of otherwise productive time looking at chimneys on our individual travels through New England and Upstate New York, and we tend to agree that OWBs get blamed for a lot of smoke produced by wood stoves, furnaces and indoor boilers. However, we both considered OWBs at various times and wound up buying gasifiers.

 

[JrCRXHF]

I think i am going to go with the EKO 60. I figure it will cost be around $12,000.00 to do the whole project.

Heat the 24x32 garage
Heat the boiler loop for the house
Heat the hot water tank.

It is about double the cost up front then doing a new NG boiler. But i hope in the long run it will save me money.

Any suggestions on install feel free. I talked to Cozy Heat today for a while they were a great deal of help.

 

[muncybob]

Wow...that was a quick change of mind Any other reasons that made you go this route other than the above? I must admit I too was thinking OWB but now I'm wrestling with a gassifier either indoor or outdoor. Plenty of $$ reasons to go with indoor but still have not received good WAF.

 

[deerhuntrer]

I burn junk wood in my boiler because its what I have. My neighbors do not complain one bit!! My stack is close to 30 feet in the air.

 

[jebatty]

...but still have not received good WAF.

The deal I made to obtain the WAF was to agree that she could keep the house as warm as she wanted to, and I would not complain (we have abundant wood from our own land). The deal was better than gold, WAF is priceless.

 

[deerhuntrer]

Please pardon my stupidity but whats a WAF?

 

[jebatty]

I experienced the same stupidity, and tried Google - worked wonders. WAF = woman or wife appreciation factor.

 

[deerhuntrer]

Gotcha!! That is pretty Ironic. The wife just wants hot water all the time with the OWB. This morning after recieving sooo much rain here, for some reason the furnace ran out of wood (probably cause I didnt fill it last nite I was doing a floor and completely forgot) she wasnt very happy when her usual 15 min shower lasted about 5 min. oops. I played dumb.

 

[heaterman]

The only way an E-Classic could possibly hit 98% is if it were struck by lightning. .........which is what I keep praying happens to the liars that publish crap like that. Call them and ask for the name of the independent lab that came up with that result. You'll find new meaning to the term "wild goose chase".

Real world test burns show efficiency in the 28-40% range and that's with 20% moisture content in the wood.

98%........what a hoot If it wasn't so sad that some people actually believe it, it would be comical. I think Central has been reading their own press releases for too long.

 

[deerhuntrer]

I love the OWB. I just think these are not for everyone and depends on what kind of fuel you have to burn. I have a lot of hemlock slabs here wood waste from my woodmill, might as well use them.

 

[JrCRXHF]

Well i think for the city i am going to do the Gasification stove because of the smoke and the amount of wood i need to burn. I have a question how hot does the outside of the stainless steel pipe get just off the back of the stove?

 

[Eric Johnson]

The inside temp of a gasifier is typically around 400 degrees or less, though it can briefly spike up to 600 or 800 at certain points in the burn cycle. The outside temp of single-wall black pipe would be much less, while the outside temp of an insulated, ss chimney would be cool enough to hold your hand on indefinitely.

 

[JrCRXHF]

not as hot as i thought then.

 

[Eric Johnson]

You get temps approaching 2,000 degrees in the gasification chamber. By the time the gas goes through the hx tubes (at least in an EKO), it's down to 300 or 400. The difference represents the heat transferred into the water jacket.

Compare that to OWB firebox temps well below 2,000 and stack temps at times in excess of 1,000 degrees, and you begin to appreciate the difference in technologies and relative efficiencies.

 

[deerhuntrer]

I would not recommend an OWB of these for the city or urban areas. But for a farmer or someone who has access to boatloads of wood, soft or hard I would

 

[jebatty]

One typical way is to use black steel stovepipe from your stove to a ceiling adapter fitting, and that adapter then fits the stainless steel chimney pipe. There likely are adapters for a direct fitting as well.

 

[JrCRXHF]

good to hear because SS pipe is nuts right now
$$$$$

 

[antos_ketcham]

I have an E-Classic on order to replace my GW 100. I'll let folks know how it goes.

I am not expecting 98% efficiency, I know that, but looking at the new design improvements, I should be able to beat the traditional OWB output.

Pete

 

[Eric Johnson]

I heard that they used a catalytic combustor, but I guess that's not true, at least not according to the cutaway diagram from CB's website.

 

[rschoensta]

I started a post on the e-classic 2300 saying that I thought it was a viable option for cord wood heating system.
I have spent the last 2 or 3 months researching wood heat as an alternative to oil.
In particular I am looking for a wood fuel system to heat a 10,000 sf highway garage that uses 5,000 gallons of oil a year.
I have read hundreds if not thousands of posts here and researched every available option.
For this particular use it seemed to me that a cord wood boiler was the way to go.
It further seemed to me that among the available choices the e-classic 2300 was an excellent option.

In addition to everything else I liked about the e-classic 2300, I liked the fact that it was top of the class in the EPA tests to certify "low emission" owb's.
(broken link removed to http://www.epa.gov/woodheaters/models.htm)


Other systems I am considering like the Garn have- for technical reasons in part - not been tested.
Currently it is illegal to sell a Garn in Vermont for this reason.

I live in New York.
NY is currently working on regs regulating the sale of OWB's.
(broken link removed to http://www.lungnh.org/atf/cf/{CC909354-D6C7-4B79-859A-768B92C749BD}/NYPart%20247.pdf)
I took a closer look at these proposed regs when I was writing the original post.
I had assumed that NY would be following the lead of the EPA and Vermont.

That is currently not the case.
NYS's proposed emissions limits are much stricter than either Vermont's or the EPA's if I am reading this correctly.
The grams per hour limit is 7.5.
The maximum limit of any test run is 15 grams per hour.

Of all the systems tested and approved by the EPA only the central boilers meet or exceed the first test.
Only the E2300 exceeds it.
None of the tested boilers meet the second test.

Unless the proposed regs are changed or the boilers improved, this indicates to me that no current OWB will be able to be legally sold in NYS when these regulations are adopted.

It should be noted that in Washington State the standards are even stricter - so much so that the Greenwood gasification boiler - which is made in the state - cannot currently be sold there.
Nor can any OWB.


Also it should be noted that the NYS proposed regs apply only to OWB's not to in the house wood boilers.

----(12) ‘Outdoor wood boiler’. A fuel burning device (a) designed to burn wood or other
approved fuels; (b) that the manufacturer specifies for outdoor installation or installation in structures
not normally occupied by humans; and (c) that is used to heat building space and/or water via the
distribution, typically through pipes, of a gas or liquid (e.g., water or water/antifreeze mixture) heated in
the device. ----------

Complicates the decision making.