P61a smoke in hopper

[mountainmike]

Hi folks,

I've been running a P61A for the last 15 years.

This year everytime I check the hopper when it is low I've got smoke in it. I have had this problem before, but it was always seemed to go away. Not so this year.

I did a thorough cleaning a couple of weeks ago and pulled the slideplate- it had some residue on it. I cleaned it and reinstalled it. Still getting the smoke in the hopper.

I have noticed that it seems to happen when the burnout has a lot of ashes and needs scraped. If I scrape the burnpot and then crack open the hopper and let it sit for a minute it sucks out all of the smoke.

My stove doesn't have the crossover tube installed, so I think I'll be doing that soon.

How difficult is it to install the crossover tube? Do I have to pull the stove?

Thanks!

Mike

 

[Washed-Up]

Better check your auger and auger tube, metal could be compromised

 

[Harman Lover 007]

You need to make sure the slide plate is operating properly and fully closing. Empty the hopper and run it in test mode and watch the slide plate. Fines box is empty correct?

 

[mountainmike]

I have worked on everything on my stove over the years, except the auger/auger tube. To do this, I just pull the auger and check the tube, right?

If there is a hole there, what is the repair process?

 

[mountainmike]

You need to make sure the slide plate is operating properly and fully closing. Empty the hopper and run it in test mode and watch the slide plate. Fines box is empty correct?

Yes, the fines box is clean and the slide plate seems to move freely, but I will double check that when it runs empty.

 

[Washed-Up]

If the auger tube is comprimised, you can hopefully have it welded.

 

[jzm2cc]

Kit is easy to install, couple measurements, two holes, RTV fittings in place connect hose.

Pulling auger is pretty simple, but degumming feeder assembly is not much fun, just went thru that with an old Advance.

 

[Harman Lover 007]

I have worked on everything on my stove over the years, except the auger/auger tube. To do this, I just pull the auger and check the tube, right?

If there is a hole there, what is the repair process?

You either get it welded or buy a new part that is called a feeder weldment.

Harman Feeder Weldment - Old Style (1-10-677150)

Feeder Weldment for Older Harman Pellet Stoves. Click for serial number info. Harman part # 1-10-677150

www.stove-parts-unlimited.com

 

[mountainmike]

Appreciate the advice.

Sounds like this might be a project for the off season. Hopefully it can wait.

Thanks!

Mike

 

[freebird77]

I had a similar problem with my P61. I have been told that certain year models had poor welding and smoke was getting into the hopper. Mine didnt do it all the time, and only noticed it when the hopper was partially full. The first time the dealer tech came out,he checked the slide plate and it was gummed up some. Cleaned it and took pictures of it for Harman. I stil had intermittent smoke over the next heating season. The man came out again after approval from Harman, and replaced the burnpot, slider plate, and pellet feeder, if I remember correctly, even the hopper. I didnt have any more problems that winter, but there wasnt a lot of heating time left by then, so we will see. Dont know if yours is still under warrenty or not, but smoke in the hopper is surley not normal. There are some others here that have had problems, I believe the Advance, or was it the Accentra? have been noted for that. I know Toastirini went through similar issues. Let us know what you find out.

 

[freebird77]

That was a few years back as you can see, but it solved the problem

 

[mountainmike]

Mine is definitely linked to how much ash I have in the burnpot. If there is smoke in the hopper and I scrape the burnpot it clears out.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Ever clean the combustion draft fan?

 

[Mt Bob]

OK,have seen this 1 time,but not uncommon in older Harmans.1- the typical "burn back" in a Harman auger tube is 1-1.5 inches,where carbon builds up.You can see this without pulling the auger.2-The normal "hole burned " in the auger tube is right at the end of the auger/tube.Where the auger tube(pellet feeder assembly) bolts to the back of the stove(there is a gasket there also). You can use the search box above,and your favorite net search engine,and find pictures of this. I and others feel this is because people do not clean out the carbon in that seam area,and it continues to corrode even while using stove.Logically,you would thing a hole in the auger tube would not cause your problem,as it is supposed to be incoming air,but,if there is another issue, and just because the design,the airflow through the pellet feeder assembly may cause it.3-- Other issue-- on non air tube Harmans,the hopper gasket and the "latch are very important.A leaking gasket,or bad latch,creating an air leak at the hopper,seems to do strange things,on older Harmans. The latch(they call it a swell latch,for the way it works) gets weak,rubber goes bad.Then people tighten the nut,to make it latch tighter,BUT,I have seen where ,even when holding the lid down,while flipping the latch shut,lid still has a gap.Hope this helps,but,your stove is in the era that had some bad welds,and it might have taken this long for something to expand/change.There were some of them that would ony get smoke in the hooper when 1/2 full,higher or lower,did not happen.Good luck,and that pretty much picks my brain,other than installing the bypass is what I would do,if only to get through the winter.

 

[Harman Lover 007]

This is what the crack looked like in the weldment I replaced. It was on a Harman Invincible.

 

[SidecarFlip]

That auger tube is about 1/2 as thick as the one in my 6039 is. Think I'd cut it out and replace it with something heavier, like a schedule 60 tube. That looks to be schedule 40.

 

[Mt Bob]

This is what the crack looked like in the weldment I replaced. It was on a Harman Invincible.

Excellent picture,sir.

 

[mountainmike]

Ever clean the combustion draft fan?

Yep. I've been running this stove for 15 years and I have a pretty good cleaning system. Beyond scraping the burnpot and the other weekly stuff like cleaning the glass, I do a full clean everytime I empty the ash pan. Including the combustion fan.

 

[mountainmike]

OK,have seen this 1 time,but not uncommon in older Harmans.1- the typical "burn back" in a Harman auger tube is 1-1.5 inches,where carbon builds up.You can see this without pulling the auger.2-The normal "hole burned " in the auger tube is right at the end of the auger/tube.Where the auger tube(pellet feeder assembly) bolts to the back of the stove(there is a gasket there also). You can use the search box above,and your favorite net search engine,and find pictures of this. I and others feel this is because people do not clean out the carbon in that seam area,and it continues to corrode even while using stove.Logically,you would thing a hole in the auger tube would not cause your problem,as it is supposed to be incoming air,but,if there is another issue, and just because the design,the airflow through the pellet feeder assembly may cause it.3-- Other issue-- on non air tube Harmans,the hopper gasket and the "latch are very important.A leaking gasket,or bad latch,creating an air leak at the hopper,seems to do strange things,on older Harmans. The latch(they call it a swell latch,for the way it works) gets weak,rubber goes bad.Then people tighten the nut,to make it latch tighter,BUT,I have seen where ,even when holding the lid down,while flipping the latch shut,lid still has a gap.Hope this helps,but,your stove is in the era that had some bad welds,and it might have taken this long for something to expand/change.There were some of them that would ony get smoke in the hooper when 1/2 full,higher or lower,did not happen.Good luck,and that pretty much picks my brain,other than installing the bypass is what I would do,if only to get through the winter.

Thanks for the insight.

My hopper latch and seal seem to be ok. Recently I was thinking about ordering a new latch to have a spare. It's gotten a lot of use over the years.

I have had this problem in the past. It really only seems to happen when the hopper is low and the burnpot needs scraped. A minute or two after scraping the burnpot, the smoke clears out.

I am just about through my first ton of TSC pellets. My next ones are a different brand, so maybe burning something that is a little less ashy will help.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Interesting about the tube. My 6039 is pushing 15 years and there is no wear in the tube whatsoever. Curious as to what causes it. Is it an inherent design flaw that mis aligns the auger in the tube or what?

If it was me, I'd cut the tube out and replace it with a heavier wall tube with the same ID. Not difficult to do with the proper tools.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Thanks for the insight.

My hopper latch and seal seem to be ok. Recently I was thinking about ordering a new latch to have a spare. It's gotten a lot of use over the years.

I have had this problem in the past. It really only seems to happen when the hopper is low and the burnpot needs scraped. A minute or two after scraping the burnpot, the smoke clears out.

I am just about through my first ton of TSC pellets. My next ones are a different brand, so maybe burning something that is a little less ashy will help.

What TSC pellets? TSC buys pellets from various extruders. They don't extrude them, themselves. I have (in the barn), 4 ton of TSC bought Michigan Hardwood on skids. (and 7 ton of no germ seed corn in supersacks too). I always buy mine in the summer when they are the cheapest. Get my corn for free.

Though my stove design is different, I never scrape my burnpot. It comes out when I clean the stove and gets dunked in a pail of warm water for a half hour. That loosens all the carbon and crud and a light scrape with a putty knife removes it, followed by Scotchbright and a rinse and dry and it's clean as new and ready to go back in.

 

[Mt Bob]

Thanks for the insight.

My hopper latch and seal seem to be ok. Recently I was thinking about ordering a new latch to have a spare. It's gotten a lot of use over the years.

I have had this problem in the past. It really only seems to happen when the hopper is low and the burnpot needs scraped. A minute or two after scraping the burnpot, the smoke clears out.

I am just about through my first ton of TSC pellets. My next ones are a different brand, so maybe burning something that is a little less ashy will help.

Yes,the harman "swell" latches appear fine,but they really do not work well,when old,You snap it, then lid raises,they are cheap,they are considered a disposable item.But,OK ignore me and Harman technicians.

 

[mountainmike]

Yes,the harman "swell" latches appear fine,but they really do not work well,when old,You snap it, then lid raises,they are cheap,they are considered a disposable item.But,OK ignore me and Harman technicians.

Not sure what I said that made you think I was ignoring you or Harman techs.

On the contrary, I am grateful for your insights and time.

 

[Mt Bob]

Not sure what I said that made you think I was ignoring you or Harman techs.

On the contrary, I am grateful for your insights and time.

K replace them.If they are over 3 years old,you should have already done this.

 

[Harman Lover 007]

Interesting about the tube. My 6039 is pushing 15 years and there is no wear in the tube whatsoever. Curious as to what causes it. Is it an inherent design flaw that mis aligns the auger in the tube or what?

If it was me, I'd cut the tube out and replace it with a heavier wall tube with the same ID. Not difficult to do with the proper tools.

The auger tube and weldment in a Harman are completely different than a USSC. I don’t have a plasma cutter or a mig welder in my arsenal......it was much easier to buy the weldment new.