Papa Bear purchased!!

ldcarro

New Member
Oct 6, 2020
15
WV
New to the forums! I just got a papa bear stove from an auction in Pa through one of my friends. It is in really good shape and was thrilled to have found it. I did notice when i got it home that there are no firebricks on the sides, just the floor and rear. No brackets on the sides either. Just wondering if this was normal or not. Have read that a second row is not necessary but seems like a first row would be a good idea. IF i follow previously seen diagrams on installing the firebricks, I should have to remove the floor bricks currently installed, put the sides in and them try to reinstall the floor. Just wondering if I put the first row in with a small "dab" of high temp adhesive on the top of the bricks (as its install vertically), could I just install on top of the existing floor bricks. Any ideas would be welcome.
 

coaly

Fisher Moderator
Staff member
Dec 22, 2007
4,053
NE PA
The early stoves before 1980 with flat top doors had short pieces of 1 1/2 angle iron called “clips” welded at every other brick joint. That would be across the back and sides as well. Later stoves had one piece angle iron across the back and one long piece down each side. It should have whatever holds the rear bricks in place

I would not not use it without the side bricks in place. I don’t think any high temp adhesive is going to work inside the firebox. You could try stove and gasket cement, but they will come loose in time if bumped around loading.

You normally install rear bricks first, then sides, the bottom to hold tight. If you cut a piece of 1 1/2 angle iron the depth of the inside, set side bricks in place first. Cut the last one to fit. (Masonry blade in circular saw scores easily and snap) Then install the rears to hold the angle iron tight. Then cut a brick for each front at sides of door to hold angle iron tight to sides. Make sure the long piece down the side has 1/4 inch front and back for expansion. It will grow with heat.

when ash gets packed between bricks they become like one and tighten up like one solid piece.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Todd67

Todd67

Minister of Fire
Jun 25, 2012
938
Northern NY
Welcome to the forum Idcarro!
 

ldcarro

New Member
Oct 6, 2020
15
WV
The early stoves before 1980 with flat top doors had short pieces of 1 1/2 angle iron called “clips” welded at every other brick. That would be across the back and sides as well. Later stoves had one piece angle iron across the back and one long piece down each side. It should have whatever holds the rear bricks in place

I would not not use it without the side bricks in place. I don’t think any high temp adhesive is going to work inside the firebox. You could try stove and gasket cement, but they will come loose in time if bumped around loading.

You normally install rear bricks first, then sides, the bottom to hold tight. If you cut a piece of 1 1/2 angle iron the depth of the inside, set side bricks in place first. Cut the last one to fit. (Masonry blade in circular saw scores easily and snap) Then install the rears to hold the angle iron tight. Then cut a brick for each front at sides of door to hold angle iron tight to sides. Make sure the long piece down the side has 1/4 inch front and back for expansion. It will grow with heat.

when ash gets packed between bricks they become like one and tighten up like one solid piece.
Hi Coaly. Thanks for the advice! I went out this morning and took additional pics based on what I have read on the sticky threads and other posts. I have added some photos here in hope of determing just what these mean. Photo 1 is the inside of the flat panel door. I remember seeing some post that outlined what this stamp means, but cant re-find it.


0-3.jpg
Photo 1.

The second stamp I found was on the back of the stove in the upper left quadrant. DEP4090. Also notice the round knob below it. There is also on on the opposite side. Either this plate was punched at time of construction or someone had a laser eye since they are set equidistant from the sides, top and the exhaust pipe.

0-1.jpg


One of these tubes removes easily from the stove. Looking at the tube, I was thinking this is copper.. So, off the the wire wheel on the bench grinder, and, aha, it is copper. Recirculating hot water heater attempt?

0.jpg


My immediate question is.. was this a factory option?? (dont really think so) custom order?? (maybe) or done after the fact (someone was really talented.) I should also relate that these tubes are now open into the firebox. whatever function they supported was removed.


0-5.jpg

Worried that these will have some leakage once I get the stove working. guess time will tell.


0-6.jpg

Added pic of front door as there seems to be an endless look to these.
Patent # is D 237798.

With respect to the firebricks, I went and got enough to do 1 row (vertical) both sides. I will look to fab long retainer bars and use coaly's approach to hold them in place. Looking at the side walls, I think there was two rows at some point, and then removed. Obviously burned fires after removal. Notice the line imprint on the wall 3/4 of the way up. Need to measure that to see if it matches the A brick length measurement.

0-7.jpg

Sorry, this post ran a little long. Just interested in learning about my stove and what the experts (practically everybody else) have to offer.
 

ldcarro

New Member
Oct 6, 2020
15
WV
Hi Coaly, Retrolling through the Fisher history blog, I found the patent document with the description of the stove. November 1975. Knew I had seen this. Downloaded for the stove file.
 

ldcarro

New Member
Oct 6, 2020
15
WV
The early stoves before 1980 with flat top doors had short pieces of 1 1/2 angle iron called “clips” welded at every other brick joint. That would be across the back and sides as well. Later stoves had one piece angle iron across the back and one long piece down each side. It should have whatever holds the rear bricks in place

I would not not use it without the side bricks in place. I don’t think any high temp adhesive is going to work inside the firebox. You could try stove and gasket cement, but they will come loose in time if bumped around loading.

You normally install rear bricks first, then sides, the bottom to hold tight. If you cut a piece of 1 1/2 angle iron the depth of the inside, set side bricks in place first. Cut the last one to fit. (Masonry blade in circular saw scores easily and snap) Then install the rears to hold the angle iron tight. Then cut a brick for each front at sides of door to hold angle iron tight to sides. Make sure the long piece down the side has 1/4 inch front and back for expansion. It will grow with heat.

when ash gets packed between bricks they become like one and tighten up like one solid piece.
YEP!! Just like concrete. i was out trying to loosen the back right side brick and well.....it broke. And the bottom half is tight as anything. Now I am thinking I might just have yo bust out the floor bricks and redo the entire inside. It would be more like the original design.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Todd67

coaly

Fisher Moderator
Staff member
Dec 22, 2007
4,053
NE PA
The second course of brick was optional in 1977 and later. It was to increase firebox temps for a cleaner burn. Not a big deal if the upper is missing.

There was no option for a water coil, but some added different forms of water heating. In Europe they call that a “water back”. The best hydronic in the firebox is a stainless steel 3/4 pipe loop. You can close it off with a plate inside and out with a 1/2 inch bolt and nut in the center of the plate like washers.
 

ldcarro

New Member
Oct 6, 2020
15
WV
Hi Coaly, Retrolling through the Fisher history blog, I found the patent document with the description of the stove. November 1975. Knew I had seen this. Downloaded for the stove file.
Trolling thru the historical records, I found a post from a UK guy back in (2011?) that had the copper tubes off the back of his stove like is on mine. Looks like I was right. It looks to have been a hot water heater.
 

ldcarro

New Member
Oct 6, 2020
15
WV
The second course of brick was optional in 1977 and later. It was to increase firebox temps for a cleaner burn. Not a big deal if the upper is missing.

There was no option for a water coil, but some added different forms of water heating. In Europe they call that a “water back”. The best hydronic in the firebox is a stainless steel 3/4 pipe loop. You can close it off with a plate inside and out with a 1/2 inch bolt and nut in the center of the plate like washers.
I was already thinking along those lines. I just need a gnome to reach into the back of the firebox. That sucker is looong..
 

coaly

Fisher Moderator
Staff member
Dec 22, 2007
4,053
NE PA
YEP!! Just like concrete. i was out trying to loosen the back right side brick and well.....it broke. And the bottom half is tight as anything. Now I am thinking I might just have yo bust out the floor bricks and redo the entire inside. It would be more like the original design.
Any other model is easy reaching the back. Papa Bears are hard on the body reaching back there! Dirtiest, worst part of stove work.

When you put bricks in, clean every bit of broken pieces and ash. They can be a tight fit and not go if anything at all is left inside.
 

ldcarro

New Member
Oct 6, 2020
15
WV
Any other model is easy reaching the back. Papa Bears are hard on the body reaching back there! Dirtiest, worst part of stove work.

When you put bricks in, clean every bit of broken pieces and ash. They can be a tight fit and not go if anything at all is left inside.
Rgr all. Back to the mines..
 

ldcarro

New Member
Oct 6, 2020
15
WV
Hi Coaly, Got the Papa Bear all wirebrushed down and did the Pb Blaster application. Waiting for my Stove Black paint to come in. during the front door prep, I noticed my damper knobs are actually aluminum vice iron. Took them off and cleaned them, greased them up and appear to work fine. I am now looking for the silver paint for the firs on the door. What paint do you recommend? I was thinking of using a small artist brush to paint them, so I hope the silver paint is not an aerosol.
 

coaly

Fisher Moderator
Staff member
Dec 22, 2007
4,053
NE PA
Never highlighted doors. I keep my collection original black. Most spray the hi temp color in the cap and brush it on.
 

ldcarro

New Member
Oct 6, 2020
15
WV
Coaly, I watched some U tube videos of refinishing stoves and one guy used mineral spirits to wipe down his stove prior to paint. I just received my Stove Bright black paint and reading the back instructions it says to use acetone for wipe down. Is there really a difference or one just better than another?
 

coaly

Fisher Moderator
Staff member
Dec 22, 2007
4,053
NE PA
Acetone or lacquer thinner leaves no residue. I use mineral spirits to remove kero or diesel fuel used for wire wheeling to prevent dust, then wipe with thinner before paint.
 

ldcarro

New Member
Oct 6, 2020
15
WV
Frank, here are 2 photos. What's the question? maybe the high temp tape around the joints??
 
Last edited:

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
23,118
central pa
Frank, here are 2 photos. What's the question? maybe the high temp tape around the joints??
It is the welded elbow that is odd. Probably modified at the same time the hot water coil was added. Why is the pipe taped? There should be no need for anything but 3 screws.
 

ldcarro

New Member
Oct 6, 2020
15
WV
Ah, this was my first Fisher and didnt know that elbow was anything different. Wrt the tape, I didn't use screws on the vertical pipes. I had this aluminum high temp tape to use on the joints. Makes it easier to disassemble if i have to clean them. Just a personal preference. It does work well however.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
23,118
central pa
Ah, this was my first Fisher and didnt know that elbow was anything different. Wrt the tape, I didn't use screws on the vertical pipes. I had this aluminum high temp tape to use on the joints. Makes it easier to disassemble if i have to clean them. Just a personal preference. It does work well however.
Coming from someone who dissembles different stove pipe setups hundreds of times a year I can tell you screws are far easier to remove for disassembly. The tape is not rated for the required temps so depending on the type it the glue will either melt and become incredibly difficult to remove. Or burn off and fall off.