Pellet stove ash issues

[Mark Morin]

Hearth.com has been an invaluable resource for me for the past 12 years burning wood however I just became a member. I really need some guidance and I know this is the place to get it.
The years are creeping up on me so decided to switch to a pellet stove this year. To get my feet wet I purchased a used Harman Accentra 2. While a little undersized for my home, it's a great stove other than I have a huge ash issue that I don't know how to remedy. Please tell me why in a matter of 4 days the stove will go from throughly cleaned to the amount of ash in the heat exchangers shown in the picture. I seriously appreciate anyone's input. Thank you in advance!

 

[ChandlerR]

Welcome Mark! I have the same stove. 2007. I pull my panels off every month as well as the combustion fan cover. I don't have nearly as much ash buildup. That's in a month. Assuming the stove is clean it can only be one thing and that is the pellet. How is it burning? Do you have an active flame? Can you share a picture or a short video?

 

[shtrdave]

can I ask if you cleaned and scraped the carbon out of the pot? It is hard to see it all at least in my P43 unless I use a mirror or just rub my fingers around feeling for what I missed. Also have yo taken the cover off under the pot where the igniter is and cleaned it out well? Looking at the flame deflector it doesn't look like you are getting a good burn. Could be holes plugged or maybe a failing combustion blower motor.

 

[Mt Bob]

Why would you pull off the heat exchanger covers to look at that in 4 days? Covers missing?

 

[Mark Morin]

Thanks to all of you that replied. Here is are the answers to your questions and some additional information.

I'm not exactly sure how the flame is supposed to look. I watched some videos on You tube but I really couldn't tell if mine was the same or not.

My normal cleaning procedure is as follows. Remove ash pan and empty, remove both heat exchanger plates and brush vacuum both sides, remove and brush vacuum combustion fan cover, lightly brush fan blade, brush vacuum exhaust port and the sensor (very carefully), scrape and brush vacuum the heat exchangers, scrape down and remove all carbon from burn pot, ream out each hole in burn pot with a drill bit, clean and remove all carbon from the flame deflector (skipped the carbon removal step last Tuesday due to time), remove ignitor cover and vacuum out under burn pot, brush vacuum entire inside of stove to include the sides, above the door, the door itself and the hinges (basically everything that can be cleaned), and finally clean the door glass which I skip sometimes including last Tuesday. Anything that is critical is cleaned...at least weakly and it's very very dirty each time.

Other information:
- From day 3 to day 4 after cleaning the stove the air discharge temp dropped 6 degrees on high flame. I assume this is due to the ash buildup.
- It's stated in the instructions that the ash pan will hold approximately 1 ton of burned pellets. Mine is full at about 1/3 to 1/2 ton.
- The pellets I use are dry and warm. They are hardwood and the brand is BioPower. They are made in Canada. The exhaust smell outside is very unpleasant.
- Combustion air is direct vent from outside.
- We've purchased about 15 bags of softwood pellets from Tractor Supply and Fleet Farm to see if they make a difference. They didn't seem to but it was really inconclusive because they were used a few bags at a time and in-between cleanings.

I will post some pictures from my phone on another reply. Note the door glass hasn't been cleaned for some time now but I had just cleaned the outside of the heat exchanger plates 28 hrs. ago.

I really appreciate all your insight and input. I'm having a heck of time with this thing.

Mark

 

[Mark Morin]

Hopefully the videos I took will post.

 

[Mark Morin]

Here are the flames

 

[Msmith]

sounds Like you have cleaned everything but you did not mention that you cleaned out the pipe. i would recommend brushing out the pipe with a 4” round pellet pipe brush with rods.

 

[Mt Bob]

Well the vids do not work well. But, will say flames do look dirty. Which could be from several things.
But, most common - intake air restricted, air flap stuck shut, exhaust restricted, combustion motor not running at proper speed(motor or board problem).
Your stove setup actually looks like it could be headed for "gummy stove syndrome".
OK, what kind of flue/exhaust do you have?
Now some info-
The newer control board burns cleaner
Has your stove had the air tube bypass installed
From the net- biopower pellets are a "blend" and known for being dirty/ashy burning
You could try turning your draft adjustment trim all the way up. Most people don't have a draft meter, or Harman DDM to check things, but even all the way up will not hurt anything
What is your feed rate set at?
Also,yes, Harman was a bit generous about 1 ton in the ash pot, but if your stove was running better, you would have less ash inside the stove, and cleaner pellets leave less ash.

 

[johneh]

What kind of pellets are you using
hard, softwood and make (name)

 

[Mt Bob]

What kind of pellets are you using
hard, softwood and make (name)

Post #5

 

[ChandlerR]

Mark, it seems like you are doing exactly what I do on the cleaning. Looking at the video, especially the first one, you are lacking airflow. Have you checked the termination cap? Mt.Bob mentioned the flap for the combustion air intake as well.
With the lack of airflow you are simply not burning the pellets efficiently. The last video shows a larger pile of burned pellets in the burnpot than I have ever seen in mine. Even when the stove is cranking I have a very large active flame and a small amount of burning pellets and ash.

 

[Mark Morin]

Thank you, guys, and I apologize for not replying sooner. My schedule is less accommodating than I would like.

After reading all of your feedback I came to the conclusion I may need to call someone in after I try a couple of things. I have no way to test if the combustion motor is operating as it should nor if I have a control board issue. However, I'm not sure how it can be but I have to agree that I may be lacking combustion air. For the sake of time of ordering one, I am going to make a monometer after work and test the stove. That is something I can do and I will go from there. Maybe that will take care of it and I can save the $250 to have someone show up at my door but probably not as there are other issues.

A couple of questions on your responses.
-How would I know if I had a newer control board and what is the air tube bypass?
-Chandler, how many sq. ft. are you heating with your Accentra 2? All this work I'm putting into this stove and at this point I'm not sure it's big enough for my needs. It isn't so far.

Lastly, another huge issue I have. I'm not sure what the main culprit was but I also had/have a soot problem...it is everywhere throughout my house. By the time I realized I had an issue it was too late. I may even need to file an insurance claim it's so bad. Anyway, the three things I did trying to eliminate the soot was replace the two gaskets on the door, taped every joint on the vent, and direct vented the fresh air right into the stove. I also had ash blowing outside through my vent I was concerned was getting sucked back into the house. All that said, I still have ash accumulating and have no idea where it could be coming from. I am doing a daily test with a piece of toilet paper sitting on top of a computer fan and letting it run for 8 hours. It's a lot cleaner than it started a while back but is still dirty. How could ash still be blowing through that stove? I don't know where else to even look.

Again, thank you so much for your help. I seriously appreciate it.

Mark

 

[mtnbiker727]

The only time my flame looks that lazy is when I have the door open....
Your flames should look sharp and pointy, like the devil and his fallen angels are dancing in your burn pot.

Can you share a picture of the venting and outside air kit? How many elbows are in it, and how long are your horizontal runs?

You said you replaced the door gaskets, have you done the dollar bill test to see if it is sealed all the way around? When the stove is cold, open the door and stick a dollar bill on the stove, and shut the door on it, and then try to pull the bill out. The door should seal tight, and it should be fairly difficult to pull the bill out. Check the door all around. On my stove, I had to adjust the latch to get a tighter seal.

Did you check the gasket on your pellet hopper to see if it's ripped or falling off?

Is there a fines cleanout next to the hopper? Is it clean? Is the lid tightly closed?

Have you pulled the ESP out and wiped it off?

Do you have an appliance adapter to connect the stove to the pipe? There is a special one for Harman stoves, because of the size of the exhaust at the back of the stove.

Did you put the pipe together with screws? Pellet stoves have forced draft, so it will push smoke and ash out of holes in the pipes that a naturally drafted wood stove wouldn't do.

 

[Mt Bob]

Control board has a part number sticker on it
Air bypass goes here,this is a generic picture, but almost the same as yours, tube wold be in the same place, it is clear/cloudy vinyl,#8.14

It sure sounds like air flow restriction.

 

[Mt Bob]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/get-attachment-aspx-jpeg.48903/

 

[Mt Bob]

There are several fixes for low air flow, but before commenting about them,want to see pictures of the flue and intake air, as said by someone else.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

FWIW, I've been burning BioPower pellets for the lastt couple seasons. They are a fairly ashy pellet, although I have seen worse. Fly ash is not bad at all, in my experience.

 

[ChandlerR]

Thank you, guys, and I apologize for not replying sooner. My schedule is less accommodating than I would like.

After reading all of your feedback I came to the conclusion I may need to call someone in after I try a couple of things. I have no way to test if the combustion motor is operating as it should nor if I have a control board issue. However, I'm not sure how it can be but I have to agree that I may be lacking combustion air. For the sake of time of ordering one, I am going to make a monometer after work and test the stove. That is something I can do and I will go from there. Maybe that will take care of it and I can save the $250 to have someone show up at my door but probably not as there are other issues.


-Chandler, how many sq. ft. are you heating with your Accentra 2? All this work I'm putting into this stove and at this point I'm not sure it's big enough for my needs. It isn't so far.

Mark, I heat 1100 sq. ft. I just turned my feed rate to 3 from 4 because it rarely needs to really crank other than when I turn it up in the morning. I found that doing this has cut my carbon deposits on my burn pot to almost nothing. I do a burn pot scraping every other day and after the change there's almost nothing to clean.

 

[tiger]

Lastly, another huge issue I have. I'm not sure what the main culprit was but I also had/have a soot problem...it is everywhere throughout my house. By the time I realized I had an issue it was too late. I may even need to file an insurance claim it's so bad. Anyway, the three things I did trying to eliminate the soot was replace the two gaskets on the door, taped every joint on the vent, and direct vented the fresh air right into the stove.

At the risk of thread-hijack I am very curious about this. Soot in the house common? Other than the door gaskets, are there other places where combustion byproducts might get into the house?

 

[johneh]

At the risk of thread-hijack I am very curious about this. Soot in the house common? Other than the door gaskets, are there other places where combustion byproducts might get into the house?

Unsealed exhaust,
Stoves can only leak exhaust after the
combustion fan.
Before fan is negative pressure
after fan positive pressure
Presuming the combustion fan is operational.

 

[tiger]

Unsealed exhaust,
Stoves can only leak exhaust after the
combustion fan.
Before fan is negative pressure
after fan positive pressure
Presuming the combustion fan is operational.

Makes sense. Alas, for those of us with inserts, one cannot examine the stove-to-exhaust interface with the stove in place. I think.