Pelpro Bay View Startup Cycle failed again - So I drilled a hole in it to make it better!!!!

[Don2222]

Hello

More trouble with the Pelpro Bay View startup cycle. Pressing start turns on the auger and the red heat setting lights.

After trying to startup the red lights go off which means the auger stops and the stove dies.

So I purchased a couple White Rodgers "Open on Rise" low limit switches for approx $5.45 each knowing that they will fit almost any stove. Well guess what. After I removed the old OEM $20.00 Low Limit switch I found there was no hole!! Usually there is a 1" inch hole that the potted sensor fits into to sense the exhaust heat. Now the instructions make sense. They say if the stove red lights go out to keep starting it again until it catches

Well if the temp of the exhaust gasses were monitored instead of the exhaust plenum then would that not be better in this case??

Sure enough, I took out my 1" metal hole saw and carefully made a mark with my awl. Then Bingo the switch fit right in!! Also had to replace the Fan F140 switch "Close on Rise" and even though the OEM F140 fan sensor was flat there was a 1" hole!! Go figure? So that was easy!

Guess what? It starts up every time now because the exhaust gases heat up faster than the plenum
No need to hit start a few times any more!!
See pics below!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

You might want to consider a gasket.

 

[DexterDay]

You might want to consider a gasket.

Absolutely. All of mine are just up against plate steel. On all of my stoves. None have a hole.

I would look into a gasket or High Temp (750*) RTV to make sure it doesn't leak any.

 

[Don2222]

Hello

The other switches with holes on this stove and other stoves do not have gaskets. So I really do not think it is necessary. Also with the high temps they would not last. The pellet dust will make a good seal anyways I am sure.

 

[imacman]

Hello

The other switches with holes on this stove and other stoves do not have gaskets. So I really do not think it is necessary. Also with the high temps they would not last. The pellet dust will make a good seal anyways I am sure.

Hi Temp silicone WILL last. We use it on the header flanges on our sprint car engines, and they get WAY hotter than that blower plenum.

And speaking of a hole, you're not concerned about CO leaking from under that switch????

 

[Don2222]

Hello

The other switches with holes on this stove and other stoves do not have gaskets. So I really do not think it is necessary. Also with the high temps they would not last. The pellet dust will make a good seal anyways I am sure.

Hi Temp silicone WILL last. We use it on the header flanges on our sprint car engines, and they get WAY hotter than that blower plenum.

And speaking of a hole, you're not concerned about CO leaking from under that switch????

HT Silicone would be good. The switch does cover the hole completely. I will see how it works out.

So far the startup is good, not much smoke. However for the 2 times I ran the Bay View so far, the output temps are not as high as the Astoria. I think the 265 CFM room blower on the Pelpro vs the 165 CFM on the Astoria may factor into that?

What do you guys think?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Don, the low limit on my stove sits inside a hole but it isn't in the exhaust gases.

If you punched a hole into the positive pressure side of the exhaust stream you need a gasket.

There is a very nice 800°F pliable sealant that is made by Rutland.

I've also seen sheet Lyterm used but can't remember what the stove was with it.

 

[Don2222]

Don, the low limit on my stove sits inside a hole but it isn't in the exhaust gases.

If you punched a hole into the positive pressure side of the exhaust stream you need a gasket.

There is a very nice 800°F pliable sealant that is made by Rutland.

I've also seen sheet Lyterm used but can't remember what the stove was with it.

Where is the Low Limit on your stove Smokey? It should be measuring either pos or neg pressure exhaust temps?

The Magnum Baby Countryside stoves have never used an exhaust gasket and sit right on the exhaust blower output see pic below!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Actually Don the low limit on my stove is against the exhaust plenum in a hole that does not expose the exhaust gases on the pressure side of the fan. It does not enter the exhaust stream. The next question is does the baby actually enter the exhaust stream.

If your hole is into the exhaust gas stream on the positive pressure side it really should be gasketed.

 

[Don2222]

Actually Don the low limit on my stove is against the exhaust plenum in a hole that does not expose the exhaust gases on the pressure side of the fan. It does not enter the exhaust stream. The next question is does the baby actually enter the exhaust stream.

If your hole is into the exhaust gas stream on the positive pressure side it really should be gasketed.

The baby does have it in the exhaust stream because when I replaced the switch it was covered with pellet dust.

How can your switch not be in the exhaust stream. Can you explain and have a pic?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Actually Don the low limit on my stove is against the exhaust plenum in a hole that does not expose the exhaust gases on the pressure side of the fan. It does not enter the exhaust stream. The next question is does the baby actually enter the exhaust stream.

If your hole is into the exhaust gas stream on the positive pressure side it really should be gasketed.

The baby does have it in the exhaust stream because when I replaced the switch it was covered with pellet dust.

How can your switch not be in the exhaust stream. Can you explain and have a pic?

Don it is against metal in a hole the hole does not enter the exhaust gas stream. It reads the temperature of the exhaust pipe.

 

[Don2222]

Actually Don the low limit on my stove is against the exhaust plenum in a hole that does not expose the exhaust gases on the pressure side of the fan. It does not enter the exhaust stream. The next question is does the baby actually enter the exhaust stream.

If your hole is into the exhaust gas stream on the positive pressure side it really should be gasketed.

The baby does have it in the exhaust stream because when I replaced the switch it was covered with pellet dust.

How can your switch not be in the exhaust stream. Can you explain and have a pic?

Don it is against metal in a hole the hole does not enter the exhaust gas stream. It reads the temperature of the exhaust pipe.

That is interesting. It is the opposite of the Astoria that slides into a bracket that mouts to the exhaust plenum.

Oh well, What do you think about the lower temps coming out of the Pelpro with the 265 CFM room blower? How big is your room blower in the Sarnac FS?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Actually Don the low limit on my stove is against the exhaust plenum in a hole that does not expose the exhaust gases on the pressure side of the fan. It does not enter the exhaust stream. The next question is does the baby actually enter the exhaust stream.

If your hole is into the exhaust gas stream on the positive pressure side it really should be gasketed.

The baby does have it in the exhaust stream because when I replaced the switch it was covered with pellet dust.

How can your switch not be in the exhaust stream. Can you explain and have a pic?

Don it is against metal in a hole the hole does not enter the exhaust gas stream. It reads the temperature of the exhaust pipe.

That is interesting. It is the opposite of the Astoria that slides into a bracket that mouts to the exhaust plenum.

Oh well, What do you think about the lower temps coming out of the Pelpro with the 265 CFM room blower? How big is your room blower in the Sarnac FS?

My stove came with a 160 CFM convection blower, it couldn't remove enough heat from the exchanger to stop the stove from overtemp shut downs, so after going through three blowers I visited the surplus center and picked up a 230 CFM unit, drilled a couple of new holes in the blower flange and now not only have I stopped the over temp problem but the air circulation is much better my exhaust temperature has dropped as far as I can tell (hands against test only), and my electrical usage has dropped.

Scott can tell you about the heat issues inside this particular stove's shell.

I have several more things that bug me and I'll get them worked out sometime.

Hell, I just got comfortable enough with the thing to attach a t-stat to it.

As near as I can tell pellet stoves all work the same at the lowest levels but everybody had to get their hands into the works thus the proliferation of different implementations.

I reduced it to two air pumps one for each of the two pipes that are twisted about each other and a feed system inside one of the pipes to understand it. Once you do that everything becomes clear.

 

[Don2222]

Actually Don the low limit on my stove is against the exhaust plenum in a hole that does not expose the exhaust gases on the pressure side of the fan. It does not enter the exhaust stream. The next question is does the baby actually enter the exhaust stream.

If your hole is into the exhaust gas stream on the positive pressure side it really should be gasketed.

The baby does have it in the exhaust stream because when I replaced the switch it was covered with pellet dust.

How can your switch not be in the exhaust stream. Can you explain and have a pic?

Don it is against metal in a hole the hole does not enter the exhaust gas stream. It reads the temperature of the exhaust pipe.

That is interesting. It is the opposite of the Astoria that slides into a bracket that mouts to the exhaust plenum.

Oh well, What do you think about the lower temps coming out of the Pelpro with the 265 CFM room blower? How big is your room blower in the Sarnac FS?

My stove came with a 160 CFM convection blower, it couldn't remove enough heat from the exchanger to stop the stove from overtemp shut downs, so after going through three blowers I visited the surplus center and picked up a 230 CFM unit, drilled a couple of new holes in the blower flange and now not only have I stopped the over temp problem but the air circulation is much better my exhaust temperature has dropped as far as I can tell (hands against test only), and my electrical usage has dropped.

Scott can tell you about the heat issues inside this particular stove's shell.

I have several more things that bug me and I'll get them worked out sometime.

Hell, I just got comfortable enough with the thing to attach a t-stat to it.

As near as I can tell pellet stoves all work the same at the lowest levels but everybody had to get their hands into the works thus the proliferation of different implementations.

I reduced it to two air pumps one for each of the two pipes that are twisted about each other and a feed system inside one of the pipes to understand it. Once you do that everything becomes clear.

Thst is interesting! Sounds like the opposite problem that I have with the Pelpro. So I was thinking of putting a reostat on the blower to slow it down a tad for some higher temps. The air coming out on the low # 1 setting is only 80 Degrees right now. That does not feel warm!

Even high #4 is only about 120 degrees with the IR gun. What temps do you get now with your new blower?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I have no way to measure them Don but it is more than 80. I also run in convection fan override mode so my convection blower is always on high.

The actual heat delivered is a function of CFM, delta T, and a constant. I find it interesting that your output is only 80 °F but I have nothing else to go on. You could be sending it out the exhaust. It has to be somewhere it doesn't go poof as much as some think it might.

 

[smoke show]

Does the input temp for the heat exchanger have a direct correlation with the output temp for the heat exchanger?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Does the input temp for the heat exchanger have a direct correlation with the output temp for the heat exchanger?

Sort of but the temperature on the heat exchanger is rarely the same at every point. It isn't heated evenly and the heat isn't removed evenly. In short it is a very strange place.

 

[DexterDay]

Don some stoves are more efficient at extracting heat than others. Im not taking anything away from the Pel Pro. Just saying some do a better job. Regardless of blower size.

Like Smokey said, mayne it's going out the vent. Or maybe a combo of both. Poor exchange system, higher CFM convection blower, which equates to more heat out the flue.

 

[DexterDay]

Does the input temp for the heat exchanger have a direct correlation with the output temp for the heat exchanger?

Very good point Smoke. If your pulling in 20* air, in a shed thats cold, with a cold stove, probably gonna have cooler temps for a bit.

Don, how long have you ran the stove?

My Old Englander takes a solid hour before temps get going and the thick firebox reaches temp.

 

[smoke show]

Does the input temp for the heat exchanger have a direct correlation with the output temp for the heat exchanger?

Very good point Smoke. If your pulling in 20* air, in a shed thats cold, with a cold stove, probably gonna have cooler temps for a bit.

Don, how long have you ran the stove?

My Old Englander takes a solid hour before temps get going and the thick firebox reaches temp.

Thats wut I'm talkin bout.

I thought we always told peeps that p/stoves are temp maintainers, not temp recoverers.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I have mine in my den (err bear cave) and today when I got my replacement blower back from the clutches of the post office and installed in the stove the temperature of my roughly 500 square foot cave was 50 °F and since I was testing out my new blower I set the stove on 2 for a high temperature that was at 12:04 PM and now at 16:22 4 hours and 18 minutes later the cave is up to 69.8 °F or about 4.6 degrees per hour rise.

Don what is the feed rate on that stove on firing rate 1 ?

 

[Don2222]

Does the input temp for the heat exchanger have a direct correlation with the output temp for the heat exchanger?

Very good point Smoke. If your pulling in 20* air, in a shed thats cold, with a cold stove, probably gonna have cooler temps for a bit.

Don, how long have you ran the stove?

My Old Englander takes a solid hour before temps get going and the thick firebox reaches temp.

Good point Dexter. I have not run it very long, maybe 0.5 hour.

Even though I got the startup cycle fixed, it does not run very long. The convection blower keeps craping out!

Boy for a used stove that I saw running before purchase, it has quite a few issues.
The new blower from CSH for $92 is on it's way and should be here Monday.

Then I will investigate this issue further! Thanks for the suggestions.

Luckily I got the stove for a very good price so getting a wholsale blower for half the OEM price will not raise the price of the stove. Still it is fun figuring all this out while I have my other stove keeping the house warm.

 

[Don2222]

I have mine in my den (err bear cave) and today when I got my replacement blower back from the clutches of the post office and installed in the stove the temperature of my roughly 500 square foot cave was 50 °F and since I was testing out my new blower I set the stove on 2 for a high temperature that was at 12:04 PM and now at 16:22 4 hours and 18 minutes later the cave is up to 69.8 °F or about 4.6 degrees per hour rise.

Don what is the feed rate on that stove on firing rate 1 ?

So Heat setting 1 according to the info below is 1.50 to 2.25 lbs. Per hour depending upon the trim pot setting.

What does this mean Smokey??

Pelpro Specs
Heats 800 - 2,000 sqft - 42,000 BTUs weights 241 lbs 65 lb hopper - Convection Blower is 265 CFM !!

Burn Rate 1.5 - 5.5 lbs for heat settings 1 - 4 and it depends where the feed rate trim pot is set!

From the Pelpro / Glow Boy Manuals the burn rates are:
Fuel Rate Setting…
Setting Approx. Burn time on 40lb hopper Amount of pellets burned
1 20 – 30 hours 1.50 to 2.25 lbs. Per hour
2 15 – 20 hours 2.25 to 3.00 lbs. Per hour
3 10 – 15 hours 3.50 to 4.00 lbs. Per hour
4 7 - 10 hours 4.00 to 5.50 lbs. Per hour
* Fuel flow and burn times quoted are approximate. And may vary with type of fuel used.

The AcuTron II Control board has Auto On/Off and Hi/Lo mode !

 

[Don2222]

Hello

This post here has almost the exact same comparison!!

Craigs answer is interesting also. He notes the low starting temps.

Although I have 3" pellet pipe exhausted 3 feet up and out on the Pelpro

Glow Boy shop pellet stove, does not get hot, what can I do.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/68361/

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I have mine in my den (err bear cave) and today when I got my replacement blower back from the clutches of the post office and installed in the stove the temperature of my roughly 500 square foot cave was 50 °F and since I was testing out my new blower I set the stove on 2 for a high temperature that was at 12:04 PM and now at 16:22 4 hours and 18 minutes later the cave is up to 69.8 °F or about 4.6 degrees per hour rise.

Don what is the feed rate on that stove on firing rate 1 ?

So Heat setting 1 according to the info below is 1.50 to 2.25 lbs. Per hour depending upon the trim pot setting.

What does this mean Smokey??

Pelpro Specs
Heats 800 - 2,000 sqft - 42,000 BTUs weights 241 lbs 65 lb hopper - Convection Blower is 265 CFM !!

Burn Rate 1.5 - 5.5 lbs for heat settings 1 - 4 and it depends where the feed rate trim pot is set!

From the Pelpro / Glow Boy Manuals the burn rates are:
Fuel Rate Setting…
Setting Approx. Burn time on 40lb hopper Amount of pellets burned
1 20 – 30 hours 1.50 to 2.25 lbs. Per hour
2 15 – 20 hours 2.25 to 3.00 lbs. Per hour
3 10 – 15 hours 3.50 to 4.00 lbs. Per hour
4 7 - 10 hours 4.00 to 5.50 lbs. Per hour
* Fuel flow and burn times quoted are approximate. And may vary with type of fuel used.

The AcuTron II Control board has Auto On/Off and Hi/Lo mode !

It means that your low firing rate could be anywhere from 1.5 pounds an hour to 2.25 pounds an hour and you can control it by adjusting your fuel feed trim. Further it affects all firing rate ranges. My fuel feed trim only affects firing rate 1 and mine is digital no pot. I have lowest 1 & 4, normal low 1, and high low 1 & 5 lights on. They feed 10 % below 1, 1, and 10% above 1. So in essence my stove has three firing rate 1s and 4 others. What they are in pounds depends upon the pellet in the stove.

You'll note that the highest trim setting on firing rate 1 is the same as the lowest setting on firing rate 2 if the trim is turned all the way down.