Problem with Whitfield Advantage III WP2 Not staying lit

[nyheater]

Hello,
I was wondering if someone could help me out. I have a older model whitfield advantage III WP-2. The stove wont stay lit. I start it up it drops pellets and lights them then before the external blower comes on it goes out. If the blower into the house comes on the stove stays lit. If it does the auger just stops. I read online that it may be the low limit switch. I went ahead and replaced that and its still doing the same. Ive tried 2 different kinds of pellets as well and had no luck.

What odd is sometimes it will light up and the blower will come on and itll run for days. Other times ill have to try and light it 10 times.

Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks ahead of time.

 

[Delta-T]

when it goes out, are there unburnt pellets in the burnpot, or is the burnpot empty?

 

[Bioburner]

When was the last time the exhaust fan been cleaned and oiled? That stove isn't just old, its ancient. Can't remember the stove has a pressure switch or not. Maybe if Stovenson catches the post he could post a wiring diagram. Have you tried starting it on high setting first then lower after its going good?

 

[nyheater]

when it goes out, are there unburnt pellets in the burnpot, or is the burnpot empty?

Hello,
The burnpot is completely empty when it goes out. The auger stops and the pellets then burn up.

 

[nyheater]

When was the last time the exhaust fan been cleaned and oiled? That stove isn't just old, its ancient. Can't remember the stove has a pressure switch or not. Maybe if Stovenson catches the post he could post a wiring diagram. Have you tried starting it on high setting first then lower after its going good?

Lol its from 1994 so I guess it is pretty old. I did turn it to 5 (the highest setting) and the fan all the way up and no go. Like I said if the blower to the room turns on im golden and itll stay on for days.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Welcome to the Forum


Does this stove have an igniter ?? or do you light it manually ??

The feed circuit works on a timer, and will allow pellets to feed until the low limit switch has had time to warm up and make contact.

The low limit switch on these stoves is located on the exhaust housing.

Try jumpering the low limit snap switch (Temporarily) and see if the unit will continue feeding/burning/

***** NOTE*****
BE CAREFUL WORKING INSIDE THE STOVE AND UNPLUG THE UNIT WHEN MAKING CHANGES.


Have you had the stove since new or (When it worked properly) ???

If the low limit switch is doing its job and the feed is stopping too soon, then there are a couple possibilities.

Feed circuit on the board has/is going south.

A problem with the auger motor.

If pressing the start button will get pellets going when it stops, then it's the feed circuit that has issues.

The low limit is wired to connect power around the start up timer, but if the board has failed then herein may be the issue.

I have 2 Whitfields myself, but have not messed with the board on the Advantage much.

Check things out and let us know

Snowy

 

[nyheater]

Welcome to the Forum


Does this stove have an igniter ?? or do you light it manually ??

The feed circuit works on a timer, and will allow pellets to feed until the low limit switch has had time to warm up and make contact.

The low limit switch on these stoves is located on the exhaust housing.

Try jumpering the low limit snap switch (Temporarily) and see if the unit will continue feeding/burning/

***** NOTE*****
BE CAREFUL WORKING INSIDE THE STOVE AND UNPLUG THE UNIT WHEN MAKING CHANGES.


Have you had the stove since new or (When it worked properly) ???

If the low limit switch is doing its job and the feed is stopping too soon, then there are a couple possibilities.

Feed circuit on the board has/is going south.

A problem with the auger motor.

If pressing the start button will get pellets going when it stops, then it's the feed circuit that has issues.

The low limit is wired to connect power around the start up timer, but if the board has failed then herein may be the issue.

I have 2 Whitfields myself, but have not messed with the board on the Advantage much.

Check things out and let us know

Snowy

Thank you. Yea the first thing I did was replace the low limit switch which didnt help at all. I checked all the wires they seem good.

Could it be the high limit switch?

 

[nyheater]

Also this just started happening it ran fine up till recently.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Just thinking

Our Advantage will turn on the room air fan as soon as the start button is pressed.

Did your stove work this way ??

If it always took a while for the room air fan to come on, then there is likely a snap switch on the heat chamber that may be bad, and the over temp switch is shutting things down after the stove runs a while.

If your room air fan did come on when the stove was started, and now does not, then it's probable that the control board is at fault.

The other possibility is that the room air fan motor has issues.

When was the fan last cleaned ???

Carefully check the fan and see if it turns easily.

Make sure there is not a bunch of lint in the air inlets on the end of the motor.

If all looks OK, then unplug the fan motor and temporarily connect it to AC power and see if it runs.

AGAIN BE CAREFUL WHEN WORKING WITH HIGH VOLTAGE

If the fan will run from a jumper cord, then the triac control on the board has failed.

These boards IIRC did see some of these types of failures.

Keep us in the loop

Snowy

 

[nyheater]

It didnt come on when I turned it on only when it was at temperature.

Is the snap switch the high limit switch? I see theres 2 of them on this stove. I ordered 2 of them and am waiting for them to be

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Ahhhhh

There could be a third switch.

The low limit
The fan switch
A high/overtemp

I am not familiar with the Adv 3 but they are similar to the Adv 2T that I have.

Trace out the wiring and see which snap switch runs the fan circuit.

The fan snap will be open when cold

The over temp will be closed when cold and not open until about 250F

 

[Bioburner]

Low limit switch as located on the exhaust.

 

[nyheater]

Ok I just cleaned the stove again checked all the wires took the fake brick down cleaned behind it. Tried to start the stove once and it went out. I then tried again and its now running.

Im gonna replace the 2 high limit switches when they come in. Ill keep you guys updated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Stovensen]

I read online that it may be the low limit switch. I went ahead and replaced that and its still doing the same.

What odd is sometimes it will light up and the blower will come on and itll run for days. Other times ill have to try and light it 10 times.
.

The low limit switch is bypassed by a relay in the control panel for the first 30 minutes at start up to allow the stove to warm up, so if the instability issues occur within this period, the low limit switch cannot be the culprit. And, as we can see on the wiring diagram, the two high limit switches and the pressure switch are connected in series with the auger motor, so these safeties cannot cause any instability in the function of the blower motors.

You must either have a bad connection in the Molex connector PIN2 marked as 2-WHT or the bypass relay has worn/burnt contact points. On the diagram we can see that the output from the bypass relay gives neutral to all three motors for the first 30 minutes. The low limit switch should close before, though, giving a certain overlap that ensures a stable start up procedure.
Initially you could try to unplug and reseat the 6 PIN Molex connector a couple of times in order the grind away any oxydation on the contact surfaces. If this doesn't help, then the diagnosis points in direction of a bypass relay with burnt contact points. All Whitfield control boards I've seen so far use a common type bypass relay that should be available in most electronics shops. A Zettler AZ-941-1CT-48DE relay is used in my Quest Plus stove. This is a heavy duty type relay that takes 48 Vdc to activate the solenoid. I have attached the datasheet for the Zettler relay below along with the service manual for your stove.

Good luck and take care. Keep us posted

 

[nyheater]

Well I replaced the high limit switch and the low limit switch. No luck. I then jumped the low limit switch and the stove works fine. Any idea why that would happen with a new switch? I traced the wire and do not see it frayed or any issues with the wire. Could it be the board?

 

[Bioburner]

Sure the switch is working properly and of the correct temp? Should close at 120F and let the power go to auger circuit. Put on stove top and test. Should be open cold and close when it hits around 120. I have a non contact temp gun to test the heat of surface of stove and a Ohm meter to see if the switch is opening and closing.

 

[Stovensen]

I then jumped the low limit switch and the stove works fine. Any idea why that would happen with a new switch?

This information clearly indicates that the bypass relay is not giving neutral to the blowers at start up. The low limit switch is open when cold, but when you jump it, the blowers get the neutral, and start working.

We now need to focus on the bypass relay. The relay could have burnt internal contact points, so that the neutral is not connected to the output terminal, or the timing circuitry that controls the relay is not working.
If the timing circuitry is working properly, you should hear a loud click from the relay, when you press the on-button. If you don't hear this click, I'm afraid the control board needs to be repaired. On an older control board without a microcontroller the repair could be as simple as replacing a leaking electrolytic capacitor.
On my video here, you can hear this click, when I press the start button. Nyheater, does your relay click in the same way?

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[nyheater]

This information clearly indicates that the bypass relay is not giving neutral to the blowers at start up. The low limit switch is open when cold, but when you jump it, the blowers get the neutral, and start working.

We now need to focus on the bypass relay. The relay could have burnt internal contact points, so that the neutral is not connected to the output terminal, or the timing circuitry that controls the relay is not working.
If the timing circuitry is working properly, you should hear a loud click from the relay, when you press the on-button. If you don't hear this click, I'm afraid the control board needs to be repaired. On an older control board without a microcontroller the repair could be as simple as replacing a leaking electrolytic capacitor.
On my video here, you can hear this click, when I press the start button. Nyheater, does your relay click in the same way?

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I do hear a click when I turn it on.

 

[Stovensen]

I do hear a click when I turn it on.

This could be good news, but I've listened a little closer to first seconds of my video, and you can actually hear two clicks... the first click is the bypass relay energizing the blowers, and the next shortly after is the relay for the igniter.
If your Advantage III has an igniter installed, it could be the igniter relay you are hearing. Hard to tell without opening the board and take a reading on the bypass relay with a voltmeter.

 

[nyheater]

Where is the bypass? I guess I can just replace it and see if it fixes it.

 

[Stovensen]

Where is the bypass? I guess I can just replace it and see if it fixes it.

Does your pcb look like this? If so, then the bypass relay must be the black block with the text "Zettler AZ941-1CT-24DE" on it. More technical details in the Zettler datasheet in my previous post. On the older Advantage stoves the igniter timer and igniter relay were placed in a separate "timer block". Your stove probably has this arrangement?? On my newer Quest stove everything is placed on the same pcb.

 

[nyheater]

Thanks Ill take it apart tomorrow. Any idea where I can get a bypass relay?

 

[Stovensen]

Thanks Ill take it apart tomorrow. Any idea where I can get a bypass relay?

Maybe RadioShack has a replacement with the same specs. For instance, the type in the pic above: "24DE" , means that it needs 24 Vdc to operate the solenoid. "DE" means that it is a sealed heavy duty type. Take a sharp close up pic of it and show it to them. Also, please post it here for enlightment

If RadioShack can't help you, there's also the manufacturers site: http://www.azettler.com/

Good luck and take care. Keep us posted

 

[nyheater]

Thanks again. Ill keep you posted.

Is it ok to run the stove all night with the low limit switch jumped?

 

[Stovensen]

Is it ok to run the stove all night with the low limit switch jumped?

The low limit switch is one of the safety switches in a pellet stove, so I would not recommend it.
Is the jumper with insulated clips, so you can safely remove the jumper while the stove is running?
This way you will also perform a load test of your new low limit switch to prove that it is working...
NOTE: The terminals carry 115 Volts/ 60 Hz.. which can be lethal to touch!!
Maybe you have pliers with insulated handles that can be used to remove the jumper.
I know it's unpleasant to wake up to a cold house, but please take care with this!

Edit: To safely remove the jumper while the stove is hot, this should work: Have the tools ready to detach the jumper, now quickly unplug the stove, and then you can safely detach the jumper. Replug the stove... if the new low limit switch is ok, then the stove should continue as if nothing had happened, just a short power outage.