Quadrafire CB 1200 questions

[oly884]

For starters, I'm new to the world of pellets. I just picked up a Quadrafire Classic Bay 1200 and I have a question that some of you may be able to help with.

When I fired it up, it was great, but after a few hours I started to question the heat output on the unit. Nothing changed from when it fired up, but I pictured it throwing out more heat that it does right now.

When I looked at this thread:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/48850/

I noticed that cncpro's normal flame height is MUCH MUCH larger than mine. My flame height barely makes it out of the firepot. It burns nice and fast, but it just seems "small" for being on the high setting. Furthermore, the flame height doesn't get much smaller on the medium or low settings, and the heat output doesn't seem to lower much.

I've tried playing with the feed rate adjustment in the hopper, and currently have it all the way towards the (+) sign, or opened up all the way. My simple guess is, it's simply not feeding enough into the firepot.

Has anyone experienced anything like this or know of a way to address this issue?

I've attached an image of the stove operating, the flame in the picture is about the highest I ever get in my stove. It's on the highest setting in this image.

The pellets I'm using are "Firemaster" pellets from QFC. I'm going to try some different pellets tonight to see if there's a difference, but other than that, I'm out of ideas.

Thanks for the help!

 

[oly884]

I guess a simpler question to start out would be:

Do pellets have that large of an impact on the size of the flame? Has anyone else had similar issues with other models/manufacturers of pellet stoves?

 

[clunk]

I have a Quad CB 1200i and low flame height or heat output has never been a problem. I suspect it's the pellets. Others on this forum may have more insight but I would definitely try a premium pellet like Barefoots and see what happens.

 

[oly884]

Thanks Clunk

I was wondering if it was the pellets or not. Here's the link to the pellets I got: (broken link removed to http://www.sbcfiremaster.com/pelletfuelproducts/pellet_fuel.html#pelletfuelinfo)

Fair amount of clinkers already, so I'm going to give a few other brands a go and see if there's any differences. I contacted the place I bought the stove from and he's going to talk to his technician and see if he's seen similar issues.

 

[DannMarr]

I would lean towards the pellets as well. That has been my experience too. My pellets (Tree Cycle) makes a small fire. I used one bag of Barefoot from a friend, and it was gigantic. I'm back with my pellets and it's back to a small fire. :long:

 

[cncpro]

For starters, I'm new to the world of pellets. I just picked up a Quadrafire Classic Bay 1200 and I have a question that some of you may be able to help with.

When I fired it up, it was great, but after a few hours I started to question the heat output on the unit. Nothing changed from when it fired up, but I pictured it throwing out more heat that it does right now.

When I looked at this thread:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/48850/

I noticed that cncpro's normal flame height is MUCH MUCH larger than mine. My flame height barely makes it out of the firepot. It burns nice and fast, but it just seems "small" for being on the high setting. Furthermore, the flame height doesn't get much smaller on the medium or low settings, and the heat output doesn't seem to lower much.

I've tried playing with the feed rate adjustment in the hopper, and currently have it all the way towards the (+) sign, or opened up all the way. My simple guess is, it's simply not feeding enough into the firepot.

Has anyone experienced anything like this or know of a way to address this issue?

I've attached an image of the stove operating, the flame in the picture is about the highest I ever get in my stove. It's on the highest setting in this image.

The pellets I'm using are "Firemaster" pellets from QFC. I'm going to try some different pellets tonight to see if there's a difference, but other than that, I'm out of ideas.

Thanks for the help!

Even with the flame heights shown in my movies the Feed adjustment door is not all the way open. It's closed up about 3/8 inch from the max open position... I am burning LG Granules (softwood) now but I had very similar flame heights and feed adjustment while burning the Hamer's Hot Ones (hardwood) last year.

I am thinking the others may be correct to suspect your pellets.

The other thing that comes to mind is your venting...
What diameter is the chimney pipe ?
How many feet of vertical ?
How many feet of horizontal ?
How many 45° elbows ?
How many 90° elbows ?


I am thinking that if your chimney isn't large enough you're not getting enough air into the fire...

You also need to consider how "tight" your house is and whether there is anything else sucking air out of it... Bathroom fan, clothes dryer, etc...

Do you have an outside air kit installed ?

My chimney is really free flowing. 4" pipe straight out to a 90° then 8 feet vertical with another 90° and the diffuser cap to blow it away from the siding .

 

[oly884]

3" diameter flue to a cleanout tee, then ~20 feet of vertical 3" diameter flue to the roof with the proper cap.

My house is anything but tight, and I was also testing methods to getting the heat from the area the stove is in to the upstairs so I opened my slider in that room. Because of that, I don't believe that it's a draft issue. The fire burns very fast and does not appear to be struggling to get air. It simply seems too small either due to the nature of the pellets I'm using, or that the feed rate is too slow.

I'm going to swing by home depot to pick up a few bags of their pellets and see how they do (though I'm not expecting much). After that, I'm going to throw together a video clip of the fire burning, take it to the store I bought it from (hopefully a tech will be there) and see what they have to say. I'm just not super impressed with the amount of heat that the unit is throwing out even on the 'high' mode. Maybe it's just me?

 

[oly884]

A quick engineering nerd calc:

With the convection blower operating at 160 cfm and the 40,000 btu rating on the stove in 'high' mode. I calculate a rough air temperature rise of 230°F, and with my lower floor at 55°F on a cold day, that gives me 285°F ± that should be coming out of the heat exchanger.

I'll get a thermometer, but I can definitely tell from last night that there was no way that I had anywhere close to 285°F air coming out of the heat exchanger, I'd even be surprised if it was 200°F

So, this leads me to another question, how close can you hold your hand to the outlet of the heat exchanger when it is operating before you have to remove it?

 

[cncpro]

A quick engineering nerd calc:

With the convection blower operating at 160 cfm and the 40,000 btu rating on the stove in 'high' mode. I calculate a rough air temperature rise of 230°F, and with my lower floor at 55°F on a cold day, that gives me 285°F ± that should be coming out of the heat exchanger.

I'll get a thermometer, but I can definitely tell from last night that there was no way that I had anywhere close to 285°F air coming out of the heat exchanger, I'd even be surprised if it was 200°F

So, this leads me to another question, how close can you hold your hand to the outlet of the heat exchanger when it is operating before you have to remove it?

I am not much for calculations but I just measured about 190-200° F at about 2" away from the discharge tubes. No OAK used here...

 

[CanadaClinker]

.....I usually get about 215 degrees on the exchanger output burning lignetics on 'low'.... I don't need to run on medium or high just yet but probably will in January... check the 5th and 14th post down on this link https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/46929/ .....to see how to easily measure the heat output without spending over $30 (for this 'remote' thermometer). ........ I believe the manual advises to set the 'high' output (using the slider adjustment in the hopper) for a 6 to 8 inch flame, then take what you get on medium and low. I suspect your pellets aren't delivering for you for some reason, either being damp or not producing enough heat from them. Also, as cncpro indicates, the air flow has alot to do with it too..... cc ;-)

 

[ablejoy]

I have my stove set to medium, flame height about 4" above pot temp is about 200 degrees. I set my feed rate about 1/4 open on medium using hardwood pellets. I can run the feed rate wide open and the flame will hit top of heat exchanger. I think you have a pellet issue. Stove keeps my house at 71-72 degrees when temp is in low 20"s.
16' VC open design living room, kitchen and dining room 1200- 1300 foot living area heated.

 

[clunk]

oly, did you ever try some different pellets?

 

[oly884]

Sorry for not getting back quicker.

I picked up some lignetics pellets right after Christmas and threw them in. The flame is taller, though still not to the extent of the video I linked to in my first post, I'd say it's ~2-4" on high. Also, my feed rate is still open most of the way. The heat output is definitely greater as my house stays much warmer with the pellet stove alone. I've been quite busy over the holiday, so I'm going to play with the feed rate a bit more and get some more pictures.

Overall, changing pellets definitely made a difference, but I still think there is some room for improvements. Thanks for the help guys!

 

[slls]

Moving the feed rate slide should change the fire height after 15 minutes or so. I do know fines in the hopper will collect in the auger area, the fines will displace the pellets the auger is trying to pickup.

 

[oly884]

I usually check for fines after every bag just to make sure they're not getting built up and have not had any issues, especially now that I've switched to the lignetics. I do recall the manual stating that it takes approximately 15 mins for the flame height to change, and unfortunately it doesn't seem to be any better. I'm going to spend a bit of time with it tonight to see if something is stuck in the auger that is preventing enough pellets from going into the hopper. Just from the sounds of what everyone is saying, having my feed rate all the way maxed out shouldn't be something that I need to do to get sufficient heat out of the unit. Will post up if I come across anything!

Thanks guys!

 

[oly884]

Update.

It's burning quite nicely now. Pellets ended up not being the issue. I took my shop vac and vacuumed out the auger tube, there must have been something up there, because once I did that, it really started to pour the pellets out.

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[richg]

You have a 20-foot run of 3-inch pipe? In addition to tring different pellets, my suggestion would be to check with Quadrafire and see if the recommend increasing to 4 inches after a certain length of piping.

 

[oly884]

I'll check with them, thanks!

Though, I'm not sure that it's the issue because the fire itself is a very quick burning white-orange flame. I would imagine that if there was a draft issue, that the flame would be 'lazy' looking. I will still check with them though!

 

[imacman]

You have a 20-foot run of 3-inch pipe? In addition to tring different pellets, my suggestion would be to check with Quadrafire and see if the recommend increasing to 4 inches after a certain length of piping.

Estimated 3-4' horizontal through the wall to cleanout T, then vertical 20' gives an EVL of approx. 17-18. That's borderline on the 3" pipe, but since there is so much vertical, I don't think it would be a problem.

 

[oly884]

You have a 20-foot run of 3-inch pipe? In addition to tring different pellets, my suggestion would be to check with Quadrafire and see if the recommend increasing to 4 inches after a certain length of piping.

Estimated 3-4' horizontal through the wall to cleanout T, then vertical 20' gives an EVL of approx. 17-18. That's borderline on the 3" pipe, but since there is so much vertical, I don't think it would be a problem.

Actually it goes right off the back of the stove to the cleanout T, then the vertical 20'

It's sitting in an old brick fireplace.

 

[imacman]

You have a 20-foot run of 3-inch pipe? In addition to tring different pellets, my suggestion would be to check with Quadrafire and see if the recommend increasing to 4 inches after a certain length of piping.

Estimated 3-4' horizontal through the wall to cleanout T, then vertical 20' gives an EVL of approx. 17-18. That's borderline on the 3" pipe, but since there is so much vertical, I don't think it would be a problem.

Actually it goes right off the back of the stove to the cleanout T, then the vertical 20'

It's sitting in an old brick fireplace.

OK, then your EVL is 15....that's the max recommended for 3" pipe before having to go to 4", but again, with that much vertical, you should have no problem with draft.

 

[oly884]

Awesome!

Thanks macman for the information. I figured that the draft wasn't the issue with how the flame looks, but it's good to know for sure!