Quadrafire Classic Bay and clinkers

[jjk454ss]

i have a Quadrafire Classic Bay and Michigan Wood Fuel pellets. Last year these pellets burned fine, they seemed OK this year at first, but now my stove won't run for maybe a bag and it shuts down because of a large clinker in the burn pot. Today I left for work after a quick clean, vacuumed out the main area and the area under the burn pot, cleaned glass and the heat exchanger tubes. I did a good clean including the exhaust venting a couple weeks ago. Burned maybe 1/3 ton since then.

I got home today, thinking I did a clean it should be good, but it was not running after burning maybe 1/2 bag max. It had a decent size clinker already.

Is there something I should check? I sit just the pellets? I'm not sure what to do? I may go buy 10 bags or something tomorrow and just try a different brand, big if it's the stove, I'd like to know what I need to do.

 

[Maxxnas]

It seems when the stove meets temperature and cycles down, if there is a large amount of build-up in the pot, it blocks the pellets from being ignited when the stove tries to cycles back on. This has happened to me several times. In my case I found a simple solution. Demand. It has been in the teens here and my stove never cycled down because it could never meet the requested temperature. It ran for 2 days straight until I manually turned it off to clean it. The fire pot had a small amount of build up but not too bad. I also tried turning the heat output of my stove to half when I would go to bed. This kept the stove running all night and not cycling down either.

If you had blockage however on a 1/2 of bag then it sounds like your pellets may be the problem.

 

[jjk454ss]

It seems when the stove meets temperature and cycles down, if there is a large amount of build-up in the pot, it blocks the pellets from being ignited when the stove tries to cycles back on. This has happened to me several times. In my case I found a simple solution. Demand. It has been in the teens here and my stove never cycled down because it could never meet the requested temperature. It ran for 2 days straight until I manually turned it off to clean it. The fire pot had a small amount of build up but not too bad. I also tried turning the heat output of my stove to half when I would go to bed. This kept the stove running all night and not cycling down either.

If you had blockage however on a 1/2 of bag then it sounds like your pellets may be the problem.

Thanks for the quick reply, it seems strange test the pellets could be that bad. I wondered if it's an airflow issue or something, but the pipes seem clean. Pimples not really sure how to clean the fans themselves, not sure if they are too dirty?

I've never tried to just let it run, it's in the single digits here at night, teens during the day, so it runs a lot anyway. How do I get it to just run all the time without getting the house up to 100 degrees?

 

[Maxxnas]

Well...in my case I have an old victorian farmhouse from 1900. It's been so cold that I'm lucky to get the house to 72 degrees. I'm not complaining about that. It sure beats running my oil furnace. You can try setting your heat output lower. I have mine set to high most of the time and it works hard putting out the BTUs. I just went through 4 bags of pellets in two days and the stove never shut off. The pot build-up does not become an issue for me as the fire is constantly burning. Again, I would see what other forum members have to say. We've all been through are share of bad pellets but there may be other possible factors involved.

 

[DMKNLD]

Hi jjk,

Generally clinkers are the result of incomplete combustion from either poor fuel quality and / or airflow issues somewhere in the exhaust pathway of your stove. Here's a prior Pellet Forum thread on MI pellets that universally rates Michigan Wood Fuel poorly. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/quality-pellets-in-mi.80888/

So I would try an alternative pellet brand to see if that changes your burn quality. You should also check for any air leaks or obstruction to the air flow through the stove in general, and the fire pot in particular. Burning high ash producing / impurity laden pellets can quickly obstruct your stoves exhaust pathway, reducing the amount of air being pulled through the fire pot and the ability of the combustion blower to push the products of combustion out your vent system.

How is your flame quality / color? Is the flame brisk and yellowish white in color or lazy and more orange? Your pellet feed is set correctly when on the high setting to give you a 4 - 6" flame height above the fire pot?

Are all your burn pot air holes clean and unobstructed, including the 4 small ones at the very bottom on the sloped part of the fire pot ? Is the burn pot clean - out trap door plate fully closed and not hanging down more than a dimes width at the side opposite the spring hinge ?

Is your door seal good, ie does it pass the 'dollar bill test' of resistance when pulling the bill out when placed in the door seal? Is your fire pot gasket seal good, ie no ash being blown away from an air leak where the fire pot and the fire box floor meet?

Have you removed the clean-out plate (pg #32 in your manual: (broken link removed to http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/7014_179.pdf) ) that is behind the right side panels and cleaned the combustion fan impeller fins and the exhaust pathway between the combustion fan and the vent connection? Do you do the 'leaf blower trick' after every ton burned to remove the fly ash from the inaccessible areas of the exhaust path ?

Start with that stuff and post back to us, OK? I'm going to guess it's a combo of poor pellet quality and some airflow leak or ash obstruction somewhere that's causing your poor burn issues.

 

[jjk454ss]

Hi jjk,

Generally clinkers are the result of incomplete combustion from either poor fuel quality and / or airflow issues somewhere in the exhaust pathway of your stove. Here's a prior Pellet Forum thread on MI pellets that universally rates Michigan Wood Fuel poorly. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/quality-pellets-in-mi.80888/

So I would try an alternative pellet brand to see if that changes your burn quality. You should also check for any air leaks or obstruction to the air flow through the stove in general, and the fire pot in particular, Burning high ash producing / impurity laden pellets can quickly obstruct your stoves exhaust pathway, reducing the amount of air being pulled through the fire pot and the ability of the combustion blower to push the products of combustion out your vent system.

How is your flame quality / color? Is the flame brisk and yellowish white in color or lazy and more orange? Your pellet feed is set correctly when on the high setting to give you a 4 - 6" flame height above the fire pot?

Are all your burn pot air holes clean and unobstructed, including the 4 small ones at the very bottom on the sloped part of the fire pot ? Is the burn pot clean - out trap door plate fully closed and not hanging down more than a dimes width at the side opposite the spring hinge ?

Is your door seal good, ie does it pass the 'dollar bill test' of resistance when pulling the bill out when placed in the door seal? Is your fire pot gasket seal good, ie no ash being blown away from an air leak where the fire pot and the fire box floor meet?

Have you removed the clean-out plate (pg #32 in your manual: (broken link removed to http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/7014_179.pdf) ) that is behind the right side panels and cleaned the combustion fan impeller fins and the exhaust pathway between the combustion fan and the vent connection? Do you do the 'leaf blower trick' after every ton burned to remove the fly ash from the inaccessible areas of the exhaust path ?

Start with that stuff and post back to us, OK? I'm going to guess it's a combo of poor pellet quality and some airflow leak or ash obstruction somewhere that's causing your poor burn issues.

Thanks for the great info. About those fins on the exhaust blower, how do I clean those?

 

[DMKNLD]

About those fins on the exhaust blower, how do I clean those?

A shop vac hose with the crevice tool attached and a 1" soft bristle paint brush is what I use to clean and vacuum mine - some folks use a toothbrush. You can *gently* work the brush around between the fin blade plate and the blower motor shaft while you turn the blades with the brush to get the ash out that builds up there. See the pic below. Just go easy, as the fins can get easily bent, and then will wobble / vibrate or rub against the blower housing and impede the fan efficiency, or worse.

If you've never had the exhaust blower out to thoroughly clean it (recommended as a yearly maintenance) it may be crudded up with caked / consolidated fly ash. If the blower fins come clean with just brushing and vacuuming you can probably defer taking it out until the 'spring cleaning', after the burn season is over, which is when most folks do that.

The combustion blower is the 'engine' of the pellet stove 'forced draft' system, so it needs regular cleaning to maximize it's life span, which will eventually require replacement when the motor bearings inevitably fail over time and heat exposure.

If the fins are caked with hard fly ash it will require some *gentle*scraping, that will require taking the blower out (pg 34 in the manual) . I have a hand Dremel tool that I use with a small wire brush wheel that works great - but you can use a small wire hand brush and a small putty knife to get that build-up off. You'll need a new replacement gasket if you do take the blower out, as the old one inevitably tears when taking the blower out. This maintains the blower's air seal to keep smoke from leaking out into the room.

They're making reusable exhaust blower gaskets for some Quad stove models now, like the Mt Vernon, but I don't know if your Quad CB model has those available yet.
Once the blower fins are clean and shiny again, I spray them with some high temp graphite spray, which seems to help prevent the ash from building up on them.

I don't know what your comfort level is with DIY mechanical stuff beyond the routine cleanings, but what I did my first burn year was hire my reputable local Quad dealer to come and do the annual maintenance on my stove. I watched him like a hawk to see how and what he did to clean and 'tune up' the stove.

Then, with the help of other knowledgeable and patient Quad folks on this fine forum, and some good on-line Quad videos (here's one for your stove), (broken link removed to http://www.quadrafire.com/Owner-Resources/Use-and-Care-Videos/Classic-Bay-1200-Pellet-Stove.asp). , I was confident taking on all the maintenance and repair tasks. But everybody has to find their own comfort level with what they are willing to take on at a DIY level.

Knowing little more about pellet stoves when I started beyond "you put the pellets in the top end and take the ash out of the bottom end", if I can do it, anyone can !
Good luck, and hope this info helps.

 

[moey]

Check that the trap door is closing tightly. Mine got bent before and it allowed a lot of air to be lost. Its common for them to sometimes get something stuck on them and not close completely. It will never be perfect but it should close tight with minimal gap. Check that none of the holes in the burnpot are clogged bend a nail and poke through holes. It sounds like its one of those problems.

If you take the cleanout cover off and shine a flashlight inside you can see the exhaust blower if the fins are caked that can be a problem. Although I only saw minimal increase in air when I would clean the fins. You can reach with a brush and clean them quite a bit if you dont have a gasket handy. Probably not with a insert but with a free standing stove you can.

 

[DMKNLD]

If you take the cleanout cover off and shine a flashlight inside you can see the exhaust blower if the fins are caked that can be a problem. Although I only saw minimal increase in air when I would clean the fins.

Good points, moey.

I couldn't find the video on-line, but I saw one that showed the exhaust blower so caked with ash and creosote build-up that the fan blade would barely spin. That must have retained heat a lot more, as well putting added strain on the motor, that likely prematurely cooked the bearings.

So while it may not noticeably improve the air flow, annual blower cleaning no doubt prolongs the life span of the exhaust blower.

 

[moey]

Good points, moey.

I couldn't find the video on-line, but I saw one that showed the exhaust blower so caked with ash and creosote build-up that the fan blade would barely spin. That must have retained heat a lot more, as well putting added strain on the motor, that likely prematurely cooked the bearings.

So while it may not noticeably improve the air flow, annual blower cleaning no doubt prolongs the life span of the exhaust blower.

Agreed I usually stick a brush in there about once a month and brush it off and then at the end of the year remove the blower for a good cleaning.

 

[jjk454ss]

The exhaust blower is the blower on the left when looking at the stove from the front correct? Because when I hear about the trap door I'm thinking the one on the right, with 4 screws holding it on.

 

[DBCOOPER]

I have a cb1200i and clean the fan blades with compressed air with the shop vac hose close by. Works well.

 

[DMKNLD]

Yes, the upper pic is your exhaust aka combustion blower. And yes, there are several clean out 'trap doors'. Moey's post referred to the fire pot clean out trap door, the one you pull the knob that dumps the fire pot ash down into the ash pan. If that door plate doesn't completely close or hangs down too low, it makes an air leak that can cause incomplete combustion as well as not have sufficient airflow to blow the ash out of the fire pot as it typically should. This could potentially be the cause of your clinker formation and poor burn efficiency.

Not having a CB model, someone who does can correct me if I'm wrong. But looking at your manual, the 4 screws you mentioned hold the exhaust clean out plate, that lives behind the right side panels of the stove, that you removed to expose the exhaust plenum shown in your lower pic. The ash build-up looks pretty caked and crusty in the lower pic, and the fan edges look like they have some build-up on them as well.

Does the fan blade spin without resistance? Any bearing whine / grinding noises when you spin it? Depending on how old it is, if the exhaust blower motor isn't generating enough cfm pressure, then that could be contributing to your burn issues as well.

Like DB suggested, if you have access to an air compressor you may be able to blow the caked ash loose and suck it up with a shop vac hose in there with it. Otherwise, you can use a shop vac crevice tool like a scraper and you should be able to get it scraped back down to the metal. You may need to gently scrape each fan blade with a long handled screw driver while you hold the fan in place with the shop vac crevice tool. Or stick a small rag in there to hold the fan blade in place. Again, be careful not to bend the fin blades.

If the ash residue is 'welded' onto the fan blades, and / or between the blades and the blower mounting plate, then you'll need to take the blower out to effectively clean it.

Did you make sure the fire pot air holes are all unobstructed, and the door seal is good ? Your feed rate is set correctly ? Beyond an ash obstructed exhaust pathway, those are the more common causes of poor burn efficiency, (along with poor pellet quality), than the combustion fan is. But you could have a combination of several of these issues going on, that then becomes a process of exclusion.

Check each of these, then keep us posted !

 

[jjk454ss]

Mayb I'll pick il a gasket tomorrow and pull out the exhaust fan. I cleaned the other fan with a toothbrush, it spins freely and doesn't make any sound. Is there a way to pull that one out? It's so far in that narrow opening its hard to clean well.

As far as the burn pot, everything is clear. There is 2 bottom holes, below the 5 if you can see what I'm talking about. Those don't go through, but seem like they are supposed to.

 

[DMKNLD]

It doesn't look like any of your bottom 4 burn pot air holes are open. They should all be open and clean like the 5 holes on the sloped section. Look at the attached pic of what a new burn pot look likes for the hole location. One tool of choice to clean the air holes out with are gun bore brushes that are the same diameter as the air hole openings - available at any Wallie World or gun shop for a few bucks each.

My Castile takes a .32 caliber for the 4 small holes just above the fire pot trap door, and the larger pot holes are .40 caliber, but your CB may have different sized air holes. You can also use an appropriate sized allen wrench to clean the holes out - I think the small holes take a 3/16" allen and the larger are 5/16". If the holes are closed up solid from creosote and carbon build-up as it appears they may be, then you may need to first punch through the carbon plug with a 90 degree bent nail, then clean it with a bore brush or allen wrench.

I would take a wire wheel on an electric drill and scour all that old carbon build-up out, it will be easier to keep the air holes clear and the trap door working more freely, as the carbon tends to build up where the sloped section and the trap door plate meet. Or you can take the whole pot out and soak it in CLR overnight to clean it. But having your fire pot air holes clogged could definitely be contributing to your clinker production and poor burn issues.

I brush my burn pot at least once a week with a hand wire brush, then clean out the air holes, then spritz some non-stick cooking spray in there to help keep the ash build-up down on the bottom plate and sides of the pot as well as help lubricate the trap door clean out mechanism. But you gotta start with a clean burn pot ! At the end of the season 'tear down' I take it out and take soak it overnight and / or take a wire wheel to it to get any burnt carbon residue out of it.

And as mentioned above, the clogged burn pot holes may not be your only burn issue problem.

I'll have to defer to a CB owner on how to best get your convection blower out, but it looks like you have to remove the lower rear screen to get at it.

 

[jjk454ss]

The bottom 4 holes just seem to have something behind them with a gap that air could still flow through, I'm no sure though. I'll have to look into pulling the burn pot out. It looks like 2 bolts on top, just not sure how to door mechanism is underneath.

I'm wondering if I'm wrong on the reason it's shutting down though. There is some buildup , but I've definitly had bigger clinkers. A couple times there were pellets in the burn pot when it wasn't running, but sometimes like tonight I got home and no pellets and really no buildup. I tried to get a couple pics. This is when I got home, only maybe 10 or 15 lbs of pellets seem to have been uzed since I cleaned it out and left it running before leaving for work.

 

[xSpecBx]

Pellet quality can also change from year to year. I have seen many people on here who, using the same brand they used previously have issues. I would grab a couple bags of sometching else and see if the problem goes away

 

[Papelletman]

The bottom 4 holes just seem to have something behind them with a gap that air could still flow through, I'm no sure though. I'll have to look into pulling the burn pot out. It looks like 2 bolts on top, just not sure how to door mechanism is underneath.

I'm wondering if I'm wrong on the reason it's shutting down though. There is some buildup , but I've definitly had bigger clinkers. A couple times there were pellets in the burn pot when it wasn't running, but sometimes like tonight I got home and no pellets and really no buildup. I tried to get a couple pics. This is when I got home, only maybe 10 or 15 lbs of pellets seem to have been uzed since I cleaned it out and left it running before leaving for work.

The bottom holes have the igniter behind them.

 

[jjk454ss]

The bottom holes have the igniter behind them.

Thanks, I wondered about that. So I'm not sure if holes are plugged to not.

But at this point it's not running for long at all, it shutting down well before any ash/clinkers. Maybe it's the feed auger or something else? When it shuts down I'll empty the pot, even though it's basically empty of ash or anything becaue it's barely run, I'll throw a handful of pellets in the pot to get it going, and it'll typically fire right up. But now it's just not staying running. I've been gone a lot, so I haven't been able to pinpoint when it's stopping, but I'm wondering if it will run one cycle, shut down when the house is up to temp, then won't start up on its own.

 

[moey]

Pull off the front little cover its got two screws you can see the burn pot holes and ignitor clearly when you do that. Probably needs vacuuming at a minimum in there. It could be a combination of several things.

 

[jjk454ss]

Pull off the front little cover its got two screws you can see the burn pot holes and ignitor clearly when you do that. Probably needs vacuuming at a minimum in there. It could be a combination of several things.

Thanks, I keep that clean regularly, there's no ash or anything under there now

 

[Papelletman]

Mine shut down on me once after I closed the feed gate some. I emptied the hopper and checked the feed tube for blocks, refilled the hopper and opened the feed gate some and it has been fine since.

 

[moey]

^^^ What they said. Open up that feed gate the only bad starts I ever had was when the feed gate was not open enough.

 

[DMKNLD]

The bottom holes have the igniter behind them.

I'm confused (not the first time !). The new CB burn pot pics show the igniter is on the side of the burn pot opposite of the sloped section, ie towards the front of the stove. It should have the air slit there that allows the igniter to heat the air that ignites the pellets. Or is the igniter configured differently on a CB ?

On all other Quad burn pots I've seen, the 4 small burn holes are at the bottom of the sloped part of the pot, opposite of the igniter side. I know Quad did a burn pot upgrade to the 'EZ clean' version, does jjk still have the older version perhaps ?

 

[Papelletman]

Maybe I'm confused, but anyway the 4 bottom holes on mine also have something behind them that prevents using the cleaning tool.