Quadrafire Classic Bay False starts ONLY below 32 Deg F or Freezing

[tjnamtiw]

You just have to understand what makes an engineer tick, they are a strange lot.

That's funny as hell AND I ARE ONE! I'm going to scream if I see 'thermocoupleR' one more time!

:-S

 

[heat seeker]

You just have to understand what makes an engineer tick, they are a strange lot.

….. I'm going to scream if I see 'thermocoupleR' one more time!

:-S

+1

 

[DexterDay]

You just have to understand what makes an engineer tick, they are a strange lot.

….. I'm going to scream if I see 'thermocoupleR' one more time!

:-S

+1

X10

Thermocouple ;-P r

 

[smoke show]

thermocoupler :lol:

 

[tjnamtiw]

thermocoupler :lol:

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[heat seeker]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[pelletash]

Wow. With all the hassle you've gone through with that stove you could have spent the money on insulation, heated the shed with an electric space heater and saved yourself some aggravation and probably a few bucks to boot.

In all seriousness, I hope you get it figured out. You have a lot more patience than I do. I'd just light the sucker manually and go back in the house for 20 minutes or so.

You just have to understand what makes an engineer tick, they are a strange lot.

I understand all too well. I studied electrical engineering in college and deal with electronics and computer systems 40 or 50 hours a week. Which is exactly why I don't have much patience for it once I get home.

Gotta go check the thermocoupler now.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Wow. With all the hassle you've gone through with that stove you could have spent the money on insulation, heated the shed with an electric space heater and saved yourself some aggravation and probably a few bucks to boot.

In all seriousness, I hope you get it figured out. You have a lot more patience than I do. I'd just light the sucker manually and go back in the house for 20 minutes or so.

You just have to understand what makes an engineer tick, they are a strange lot.

I understand all too well. I studied electrical engineering in college and deal with electronics and computer systems 40 or 50 hours a week. Which is exactly why I don't have much patience for it once I get home.

Gotta go check the thermocoupler now.

GGrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, slash, slash, grrrrrrrr.

 

[Don2222]

Hello Guys

Need some opinions here!!

Seeing that I am running out of cold temps and the Carbon Conductive Grease has not arrived I just tried something.

The temp outside just hit 26 Deg F so I went out in the cold and removed the side panel and jumped out the Vacuum switch.

Then I turned on the T-Stat and the stove fired right up!!

So I shut it down and hope it cools quick so I can do some more tests!

This makes me go Hmmm! The Pelpro had the very same problem! Not enough vacuum in this cold from the exhaust blower!

Now the Heat level was set to medium and the the room blower set to Hi.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Hello Guys

Need some opinions here!!

Seeing that I am running out of cold temps and the Carbon Conductive Grease has not arrived I just tried something.

The temp outside just hit 26 Deg F so I went out in the cold and removed the side panel and jumped out the Vacuum switch.

Then I turned on the T-Stat and the stove fired right up!!

So I shut it down and hope it cools quick so I can do some more tests!

This makes me go Hmmm! The Pelpro had the very same problem! Not enough vacuum in this cold from the exhaust blower!

Now the Heat level was set to medium and the the room blower set to Hi.

See if you can find a bigger inside diameter vacuum line and get it attached to the stove (yes that means clamping the ends somehow).

 

[tjnamtiw]

Could it also be that the diaphragm in the vacuum switch gets stiffer in cold weather and requires more vacuum, which isn't there, to pull it in?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I've looked at a number of those switches on Grainger and 32 isn't anywhere close to their bottom operable temperature. A large number are good from -40°F to 180°F.

 

[Don2222]

I've looked at a number of those switches on Grainger and 32 isn't anywhere close to their bottom operable temperature. A large number are good from -40°F to 180°F.

Good Point Smokey

Well, with the Pelpro I noticed the exhaust fan was not going fast enough when it was that cold to generate enough vacuum.

The Pelpro controls the exhuast fan speed with an SCR on the Electronic Control panel. So I suspected the control panel was at fault and was going to do more testing with the new updated control panel but never got the chance.

Not sure about the Quadrafire?

 

[DexterDay]

I'm skeptical about the grease solving the problem. . .

The auger is old and tired. All the motors in that stove have been neglected. The hopper was solid rust. Imagine what the inside of the motors look like?

The combustion blower is being tested with a Max EVL and the auger is only spitting so many pellets at start-up (sometimes 6, sometimes a standard pot full).???

Hope you get it figured out. . . Standing by, waiting for grease.....

 

[Don2222]

Hello Smokey

I just found something about the Quad.

The control panel was set to medium heat. So I removed the top clean out cap before the exhaust goes outside so I could feel the strength of the exhaust air on startup.

I turned the stove on and I could just barely feel the exhaust air coming out. The I changed the heat level to high and wow the exhaust was really blowing out!!

So when the shed cools down I will try starting the stove on high heat level at the low outside temp. That may be the answer for this case!

Checkout the Quadrafire Video Owner's Manual on the DVD showing on the TV above the Stove in the pic below!!

 

[DexterDay]

Hello Smokey

I just found something about the Quad.

The control panel was set to medium heat. So I removed the top clean out cap before the exhaust goes outside so I could feel the strength of the exhaust air on startup.

I turned the stove on and I could just barely feel the exhaust air coming out. The I changed the heat level to high and wow the exhaust was really blowing out!!

So when the shed cools down I will try starting the stove on high heat level at the low outside temp. That may be the answer for this case!

Checkout the Quadrafire Video Owner's Manual on the DVD showing on the TV above the Stove in the pic below!!

This wont help... Quads start on High all the time. Have you been inside the shed when it starts??

The stove starts on High and feeds pellets, ignites, then when the thermocouple senses the temp, it kicks into the setting you have set.

You must have "cycled" the stove "On then Off". This will put just the Combustion blower on, and when you change settings, the blower will change.

Doesn't matter if you are on Low/Med/ High. The stove starts the same ALL the time.

 

[Don2222]

Hello Smokey

I just found something about the Quad.

The control panel was set to medium heat. So I removed the top clean out cap before the exhaust goes outside so I could feel the strength of the exhaust air on startup.

I turned the stove on and I could just barely feel the exhaust air coming out. The I changed the heat level to high and wow the exhaust was really blowing out!!

So when the shed cools down I will try starting the stove on high heat level at the low outside temp. That may be the answer for this case!

Checkout the Quadrafire Video Owner's Manual on the DVD showing on the TV above the Stove in the pic below!!

This wont help... Quads start on High all the time. Have you been inside the shed when it starts??

The stove starts on High and feeds pellets, ignites, then when the thermocouple senses the temp, it kicks into the setting you have set.

You must have "cycled" the stove "On then Off". This will put just the Combustion blower on, and when you change settings, the blower will change.

Doesn't matter if you are on Low/Med/ High. The stove starts the same ALL the time.

Aha Dexter, Maybe the Newer Quads start on High all the time! This is an older stove!! This may be part of the issue! They always make improvements over the years like the newer Pelpro control panel with the built-in T-Stat option

So maybe a newer control box would be an upgrade here?

 

[DexterDay]

Doubt it.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Those vacuum switches may be 'rated' down to -40 but in my early experimenting I found that on LOW there was barely enough vacuum generated to pull the switch in. So the temperature rating might be for the max vacuum it's rated for and not some sickly low amount of vacuum(or negative pressure for the purest lurking).

 

[Don2222]

Doubt it.

Hi Dexter

Well after not running the stove for 2 hours. Actually it was only on for 5 mins 2 hours ago so not even warm.

This time when the outside temp was 22 Deg F with the heat level on Hi the stove started fine on the first shot

Can you feel or see any exhaust fan speed difference when you start your Quad on Med Heat Level and then switch to Hi right away??

 

[DexterDay]

When its starting??? NO. The stove will.start on High. It isnt until after it starts that I can intervene, Even if I wanted to.

From a Cold start, your stove should start on High. After ignition (or if the stove is still warm/thermocouple may still sense heat from pot/stove body) the stove goes to the setting applied by the user.

 

[Don2222]

When its starting??? NO. The stove will.start on High. It isnt until after it starts that I can intervene, Even if I wanted to.

From a Cold start, your stove should start on High. After ignition (or if the stove is still warm/thermocouple may still sense heat from pot/stove body) the stove goes to the setting applied by the user.

This stove definitely does not work that way!! No hopper switch either!

 

[tjnamtiw]

The Sante Fe's and Castile's don't have hopper switches either and from feedback from those with earlier units and newer units, none of them do. Mine both start on HIGH like Dexter said no matter what the setting. My money's on the 'stiff' vacuum switch at this point since we are grasping at straws anyway.

 

[Don2222]

Hi Dexter

My manual states that the feed rate of the pellets are the Hi feed rate on a cold start for 4 mins and then it drops to the setting of the rocker switch.

However the Exhaust fan always increases speed with each heat setting!

Both manuals do not talk about the exhaust fan in startup mode, Even the video only talks about heat output on Hi setting on start-up, not fan speed!!

So a new control box may change this/

 

[heat seeker]

The vacuum switch is an off-the-shelf item, and its ratings were done under conditions that differ from the conditions in a cold stove. The cold may well be stiffening the diaphragm, especially after it has been subjected to high temps over the years. Wish you had a new one to swap in to see how it works!