Questions on P68 basement install

[FiredUp603]

Hey all, long time lurker, first time caller (errr.. poster)

I recently picked up a used P68 which I'm now in the planning stages for a self-install in the basement. I could use a second set of eyes from the pellet gurus on my plans and parts purchase. The stove itself is super clean and in great shape, but I'm in need of some new venting. I've been doing some reading here and I see you guys like pellet vent pro, from what I can see this seems like the best route for me. I'm in an unfinished/unheated yet insulated basement in a new, fairly airtight home. The plan as it stands right now is to install the mighty P68 into an alcove (where the foundation bumps out for the void beneath my propane fireplace (builders grade... junk) in the first story directly above. Alcove is 44" wide, 24" deep.

The basement, which I do plan on finishing is roughly 1200 sq ft in total. I'd guess roughly 600-700 of that will be finished space in the end. Rest of the house above is 2800 sq ft, two stories, open concept. The stove will be prominently displayed in the main area of the basement/living area, possibly on a raised hearth and surrounded by a stone veneer, floor to ceiling, maybe look something like this.

Where I think I want the stove, from the very back edge of the stove body (right at the gap where the hopper begins) I'm about 10" on each side to the foundation walls where each corner turns in for the bump-out. So it's really just the hopper that is tucked into the alcove. I'm measuring about 18" on the backside of stove where I'd need to put a short horizontal run, and a clean-out Tee before going vertical. I'm below grade until I get to most of the way up that concrete knee wall, which is about 48", floor to ceiling is 8 feet. I'll stop short of the ceiling by 8-10" before going out through the wall. On the outside I'm about 5' above some river rock, no other clearance or code issues outside that I can see per the Harman install guide.

Anyway, I need to pull the trigger on the venting and order up some pellets real soon. I'd really like some input on what I'm planning on picking up so I don't make any rookie moves as this is my first go round with a pellet stove. Here's what I'm looking at purchasing. Listing the parts in order from the stove outwards since I don't have a visual of this just yet, hopefully this is clear enough. My thinking is I use all black PVP inside, so it matches the stove and switch to the normal galvanized/silver outside to match the thimble and end cap. I've yet to track down what I should be using to connect the OAK, any suggestions on what I should use here?

Parts listed are mostly from https://s2.img-b.com/ventingdirect....t/230483/duravent-4pvp-48a-specsheet-2837.pdf
3PVP-ADHB - Harman adapter
3PVP-06B - 6" pipe run horizontal (between adapter and tee)
3PVP-TB1 - Tee & Cap
3PVP-60B - 60" vertical (between Tee and Elbow)
3PVP-WSA - Couple of straps to secure the 60" run to the inside wall
3PVP-E90B - Elbow
3PVP-24 - 24" horizontal run through the 2x6 wall
3PVP-HC2 - Termination end cap
1-00-677177 - Harman Direct Vent Wall Pass Through and air connection
Some 3" flexible pipe for OAK.... TBD
4 Tons of Cleanfire Pacific Softwood from woodpellets.com... currently $324 per ton + delivery
UPS/Surge protection, likely an APC 750 for safe shutdown

I'll work on getting some pics next.
Thanks guys!

 

[johneh]

Welcome to the forum
Your install sounds nice.
mine is set in an alcove that was a zero clearance fireplace
My only regret is that I did not give myself more room
for maintenance cleaning and repairs
You may find 10 in. a little tight
I have had mine for 18 years and every year it has got tighter
or I have I got bigger

 

[FiredUp603]

Thanks. I completely agree, will be tight. It'll actually be closer than 10" since I plan on eventually finishing the niche with stone. Not sure the thickness yet. The more I look at it the more I inch the stove forward. Should I be concerned at all with a non-combustable material being within the minimum clearance to the side? I plan on using 2" rigid foam board to insulate all the exposed concrete walls, I clearly can't do that in the niche area but it does bump those side walls out another 4" by the time I attach drywall, so I think the stove needs to bump out even more.

Here's what it looks like right now...

 

[hockeypuck]

How do you expect the heat to get to the first floor? With an open concept living space, I think you are missing a great opportunity to put that on the first floor and heat the majority of the rest of your house. If you are just looking to heat the 700 sqft space, that P68 might be over kill but will definitely do the job. Going back to post 2, when cleaning the chimney pipe it will be tough to reach back there and pull the bottom cap for clean out, but other than that, nice stove.

 

[FiredUp603]

How do you expect the heat to get to the first floor? With an open concept living space, I think you are missing a great opportunity to put that on the first floor and heat the majority of the rest of your house. If you are just looking to heat the 700 sqft space, that P68 might be over kill but will definitely do the job. Going back to post 2, when cleaning the chimney pipe it will be tough to reach back there and pull the bottom cap for clean out, but other than that, nice stove.

Great question. I was going to tap into the furnace ducting, the cold air return is within 10-12 feet of the stove and runs from the ceiling down. I could easily place a return register up high, drawing from the finished side of the wall where the stove sits. I know the furnace fan will need to be on 24/7 and it's a bit of an experiment, I get that. The basement has never been heated, and temps seem to float around 40-42 degrees even on the coldest days. I've taken a thermal camera around the house to look for cold spots, and I've found the concrete walls (outside) are radiating heat out, compared to say the siding being nice and cold. This tells me that my basement is drawing heat, pulling it down from the first floor with ease. I suspect if I added a heat source and properly insulate the concrete walls that some of that heat will naturally rise.

And hear you on the first floor stove, right now the basement is in need of heat and the only good place for a first floor stove would be an insert, only if I pulled the propane unit out and that's just not a project I can get into this year.

As for cleaning the T out... I'm not sure yet. Maybe I just leave myself enough hearth so that I can pull the stove out each time to get back there. I could technically move the stove and go with a corner install on another wall entirely, the wife isn't crazy about that and this niche does become dead space if I decided to move the stove later, so I was going to try to make it work here first.

Thanks,

 

[Don2222]

Hey all, long time lurker, first time caller (errr.. poster)

I recently picked up a used P68 which I'm now in the planning stages for a self-install in the basement. I could use a second set of eyes from the pellet gurus on my plans and parts purchase. The stove itself is super clean and in great shape, but I'm in need of some new venting. I've been doing some reading here and I see you guys like pellet vent pro, from what I can see this seems like the best route for me. I'm in an unfinished/unheated yet insulated basement in a new, fairly airtight home. The plan as it stands right now is to install the mighty P68 into an alcove (where the foundation bumps out for the void beneath my propane fireplace (builders grade... junk) in the first story directly above. Alcove is 44" wide, 24" deep.

The basement, which I do plan on finishing is roughly 1200 sq ft in total. I'd guess roughly 600-700 of that will be finished space in the end. Rest of the house above is 2800 sq ft, two stories, open concept. The stove will be prominently displayed in the main area of the basement/living area, possibly on a raised hearth and surrounded by a stone veneer, floor to ceiling, maybe look something like this.

Where I think I want the stove, from the very back edge of the stove body (right at the gap where the hopper begins) I'm about 10" on each side to the foundation walls where each corner turns in for the bump-out. So it's really just the hopper that is tucked into the alcove. I'm measuring about 18" on the backside of stove where I'd need to put a short horizontal run, and a clean-out Tee before going vertical. I'm below grade until I get to most of the way up that concrete knee wall, which is about 48", floor to ceiling is 8 feet. I'll stop short of the ceiling by 8-10" before going out through the wall. On the outside I'm about 5' above some river rock, no other clearance or code issues outside that I can see per the Harman install guide.

Anyway, I need to pull the trigger on the venting and order up some pellets real soon. I'd really like some input on what I'm planning on picking up so I don't make any rookie moves as this is my first go round with a pellet stove. Here's what I'm looking at purchasing. Listing the parts in order from the stove outwards since I don't have a visual of this just yet, hopefully this is clear enough. My thinking is I use all black PVP inside, so it matches the stove and switch to the normal galvanized/silver outside to match the thimble and end cap. I've yet to track down what I should be using to connect the OAK, any suggestions on what I should use here?

Parts listed are mostly from https://s2.img-b.com/ventingdirect....t/230483/duravent-4pvp-48a-specsheet-2837.pdf
3PVP-ADHB - Harman adapter
3PVP-06B - 6" pipe run horizontal (between adapter and tee)
3PVP-TB1 - Tee & Cap
3PVP-60B - 60" vertical (between Tee and Elbow)
3PVP-WSA - Couple of straps to secure the 60" run to the inside wall
3PVP-E90B - Elbow
3PVP-24 - 24" horizontal run through the 2x6 wall
3PVP-HC2 - Termination end cap
1-00-677177 - Harman Direct Vent Wall Pass Through and air connection
Some 3" flexible pipe for OAK.... TBD
4 Tons of Cleanfire Pacific Softwood from woodpellets.com... currently $324 per ton + delivery
UPS/Surge protection, likely an APC 750 for safe shutdown

I'll work on getting some pics next.
Thanks guys!

If you want the best efficiency and performance then please go with the 4 inch diameter venting and 3 inch outside air venting. Since that has a A lot of BTUs it needs more air!
4PVP

 

[bogieb]

My first concern was enough room to clean out the fines box and any other maintenance back behind the stove. If you use a lot of tonnage, disconnecting and re-connecting pipes will be a PITA - but hey, I won't be the one doing it, so it is up to you.

The next thing is making sure you get any existing insulation and vapor barrier away from the exhaust. Don't forget to plan enough room behind the stove for the horizontal pipe clearance (my P61a actually comes out to about 12" - and if you won't get the stone up this yea, make sure you leave enough room for that too.

Even if just the hopper area is in that alcove, plan on stretching the temp sensor out to the side by the sheet-rocked walls. Otherwise it will be reading the colder air thrown from the concrete wall and never shut down.

For connecting the OAK, the 3" flex pipe should go around the outside of the stove ingress, so just use a metal ring clamp for that.

 

[FiredUp603]

My first concern was enough room to clean out the fines box and any other maintenance back behind the stove. If you use a lot of tonnage, disconnecting and re-connecting pipes will be a PITA - but hey, I won't be the one doing it, so it is up to you.

The next thing is making sure you get any existing insulation and vapor barrier away from the exhaust. Don't forget to plan enough room behind the stove for the horizontal pipe clearance (my P61a actually comes out to about 12" - and if you won't get the stone up this yea, make sure you leave enough room for that too.

Even if just the hopper area is in that alcove, plan on stretching the temp sensor out to the side by the sheet-rocked walls. Otherwise it will be reading the colder air thrown from the concrete wall and never shut down.

For connecting the OAK, the 3" flex pipe should go around the outside of the stove ingress, so just use a metal ring clamp for that.

When you say horizontal pipe clearance, are you talking about the sides of the pipe to the wall, or the clearance to the back wall? Guess I'm confused what you mean there, but for this year and even when I get to working on finishing the basement, I'll have no combustable surfaces in the alcove, just a small bit of drywall on the ceiling. I'll probably throw up at least some cement board on the upper wall for this year.

I was planning on picking up something like this for the OAK and essentially running the flex pipe along the side of the exhaust back and up the wall since it needs to terminate at the Harman thimble/pass through anyhow, I ended up ordering this part last week. Any concerns with having an 8-10 ft run, mostly vertical flex for an OAK? I want to hide the flex behind the exhaust if I can, or paint it flat black to match.

I went all 3" on the PVP as I read the 4" was only needed for long runs and I've read other posts here about 4" causing issues, I'm sure there is some debate there, figured I would follow Harman's recommendation.

Thanks

 

[bogieb]

When you say horizontal pipe clearance, are you talking about the sides of the pipe to the wall, or the clearance to the back wall? Guess I'm confused what you mean there, but for this year and even when I get to working on finishing the basement, I'll have no combustable surfaces in the alcove, just a small bit of drywall on the ceiling. I'll probably throw up at least some cement board on the upper wall for this year.

I was planning on picking up something like this for the OAK and essentially running the flex pipe along the side of the exhaust back and up the wall since it needs to terminate at the Harman thimble/pass through anyhow, I ended up ordering this part last week. Any concerns with having an 8-10 ft run, mostly vertical flex for an OAK? I want to hide the flex behind the exhaust if I can, or paint it flat black to match.

I went all 3" on the PVP as I read the 4" was only needed for long runs and I've read other posts here about 4" causing issues, I'm sure there is some debate there, figured I would follow Harman's recommendation.

Thanks

I meant the Vertical pipe clearance (clearance to back wall), which depending on the pipe you chose can be 1-3 inches to combustibles. Heck, even without any combustibles back there, I'd still make sure I kept it off the surfaces.

The run from my OAK is about 7' and I don't have any issues.

Sorry for the confusion I caused!

 

[FiredUp603]

I meant the Vertical pipe clearance (clearance to back wall), which depending on the pipe you chose can be 1-3 inches to combustibles. Heck, even without any combustibles back there, I'd still make sure I kept it off the surfaces.

The run from my OAK is about 7' and I don't have any issues.

Sorry for the confusion I caused!

No problem. Anyone have experience with these black vent pipes? I did a dry fit of some of the parts the other day, now I have to go pick up some rubber strap wrenches because I'm having a heck of a time taking them back apart! I think the black paint might be jamming me up since the normal galvanized PVP comes apart with a twist much more easily. It looks like these all came with a small about of grease on the seal so maybe they just need to be worked in a bit. Any ideas?

Thanks!

 

[rickwai]

I would come off the stove w/ a 12" instead of a 6" . You will be thankful the 1st time you have to remove the rear panel to do the auger motor. You want to have it set up to where you dont have to disconnect the pipe to service the stove.

 

[alternativeheat]

I wouldn't stick a P series Harmon inside a hole in the wall, you lose all the side convection heat those stoves offer. The blower is only part of the heat from a P, they radiate nearly as much. I'd move it out so the sides are exposed personally. Just me, to whom you don't have to listen too.

 

[cpetku]

I wouldn't stick a P series Harmon inside a hole in the wall, you lose all the side convection heat those stoves offer. The blower is only part of the heat from a P, they radiate nearly as much. I'd move it out so the sides are exposed personally. Just me, to whom you don't have to listen too.

Or consider adding a fan in the area to move the radiant heat from the top and sides of the stove around the room.

Please consider the stove installation manual as I believe you are placing 10" from a wall where the minimum clearance may be 20" if not using side shields. While the initial install has concrete around the unit, there's no telling what will be used to finish this off in the future. Check with your local building department to make sure there are no unforeseen code issues. The last thing you want is a fire 10 years down the road when someone makes this pretty with wood trim and the insurance company cites a code violation then doesn't pay on the claim.

 

[FiredUp603]

It's hard to tell from the picture posted, but the stove is sitting such that only the hopper is tucked into that cove. As for finishing, I plan to use 1-1.5" stone veneer, starting at the hearth going all the way to the ceiling. I'd attach the veneer directly to the kneewall, then build out the wall up top with wood framing, covered in concrete board (flush with the concrete wall below) and veneer all the wall, wrap the outer corners adding a few inches to the face on either side.

Right now the side of the stove wall is 11" from the concrete knee wall as pictured on either side. I can pull the stove forward a bit more, but at the end of the day there will be no wood/combustables near the stove. I'll probably still purchase the harman heat-shields, just for peace of mind even though I think my clearances are sufficient.

Still have concerns?

 

[ABusWrench]

I would definitely use the heat shields! A P68 is a real heat monster when turned up! They radiate lots of heat! I personally wouldn't want to service that stove in that tight of an area. Everything you need to service is at the back or backside of the stove. Going to be a real PITA quick! Just my opinion. Good luck.

 

[SidecarFlip]

With the appliance crammed into that recess, maintenance to the appliance when needed, will become a nightmare., especially the exhaust venting... If it was me, I'd not do that, that way.

 

[FiredUp603]

I would definitely use the heat shields! A P68 is a real heat monster when turned up! They radiate lots of heat! I personally wouldn't want to service that stove in that tight of an area. Everything you need to service is at the back or backside of the stove. Going to be a real PITA quick! Just my opinion. Good luck.

Understood. What servicing and how frequent? I think I can reach the clean out cap easily enough, but for anything else I'll plan to pull the stove out and onto a dolly. My thought was the hearth could be built to a height to essentially match that of the dolly it sits on today.

I'm looking at picking up a nice slab of 2" thick granite to use as the hearth. It would be build up using 2x4s, plywood and concrete board.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Don't know the appliance but with mine, I need to access both sides of it to access the motors and draft fan which necessitates the removal of the side panels and.... None of them filter the ambient air so they get filled with airborne dust and junk after a while and need vacuumed out inside (I do mine every spring) and that requires side panel removal (on mine) as well. Personally, I'd never recess any appliance in any alcove because all you are doing is making your cleaning chores harder.

I have mine in a corner but not sequestered behind any outstanding walls and it still has a degree of difficulty accessing the appliance for maintenance

Just keep in mine that ANY multifuel stove or pellet roaster requires frequent cleaning and maintenance from soot and fly ash removal to cleaning inside to lubrication / replacement of internal components like draft fans and room air distribution blowers and the easier you make that, the happier you'll be overall.

Of course you can always call some cleaning service and have them do it, couple guys on here will be more than willing to handle that for a price of course.

 

[cpetku]

If you leave sufficient space in front and seal your pipes with silicon tape and maybe cheat a little on fitment, then you can remove the silicon tape (sealing in-house pipes) and disconnect the Pro Vent. Slide the stove forward on the hearth pad to allow working on it while lying on the ground. Make sure you build a big enough hearth to allow servicing after pulling it out of the alcove. Of course this will prevent installing anything in front of the stove. So why not just plumb it for reasonable serviceability up front and get more radiant heat? I don't think you'll save any space, but the alcove install might make the room look larger when running the stove.