Replacing Builder Grade Pre-Fab Fireplace

[BUZZARD437]

Ill try to keep this short and sweet.

First off, I am sorry if this has been asked a million times. I truly have spent about an hour on this forum alone trying to find my answer.

I have a builder grade Heatilator EC36 pre-fab in my 2002 ranch home in Indiana. We have a heat pump with heater coils for make up heat, and it is useless in the frigid cold Indiana nights. I believe I only have a few options for utilizing the same fireplace space...
Option 1 is to rip out the old pre-fab and replace it with a ZC unit that fits. I assume I would need to modify the chimney in someway (SS pipe down the existing chimney maybe??)
Option 2 is more of a theoretical... Could I rip out the old pre-fab and find a free standing unit that fits inside the opening? If that is possible, what possible modifications do you think I would need to make to ensure it is safe?
Option 3 is to maybe rip out the unit and create a true masonry fireplace space and install a wood burning insert?? This sounds extremely expensive and I probably would run nat gas to the house and put in a gas furnace before I took on that project... lol
Option 4.. you tell me? I am extremely new to fireplaces and would love to be schooled on it. Thanks guys!

 

[begreen]

Welcome. This subject has come up a few times a month. Option 3 would be the most expensive and unneccessay. Freestanding stoves in an alcove created by the absent ZC can be done if the space meets all clearance requirements for the stove. A new chimney will need to be installed. There are several very good EPA ZC fireplaces that could be installed as a replacement. The chimney will likely need to be replaced too.

Search on ZC alcove in this forum only to see some previous discussions.

 

[EbS-P]

Option 4-1 find a location to install a free standing wood stove. It’s possibly the cheapest. Define the easiest. Tax credit for any units with HHV 75% and greater. Down side is the space it takes.

Option 4-2 add a cold weather mini split unit. Probably about the cost of wood stove install.

Option 4-3 upgrade the heatpump. My rule is if it’s less than a 16 seer and larger than 3 tons the energy savings is significant.

 

[jalmondale]

I've got my stove installed in front of an old fireplace - the manufacturer recommended that vs in the actual fireplace for more efficient heating and access for maintenance. The hearth comes out 3' in front of the old fireplace, so it's not taking over the room - that might be an option for you?

 

[BUZZARD437]

Welcome. This subject has come up a few times a month. Option 3 would be the most expensive and unneccessay. Freestanding stoves in an alcove created by the absent ZC can be done if the space meets all clearance requirements for the stove. A new chimney will need to be installed. There are several very good EPA ZC fireplaces that could be installed as a replacement. The chimney will likely need to be replaced too.

Search on ZC alcove in this forum only to see some previous discussions.

Thank you! I knew it would be but I searched a few times only to find something that didn't help. The main problem I have with replacing with a HE ZC is that I want the tax credit and I am struggling to find one that complies. I read "chimney need replaced" a few times on the forum, but what does that actually mean? Just a new flexible ss pipe down the existing? I want to use the space of the fireplace as I think it would be kinda silly to put a fire place right next to a fireplace. Again thank you so much!

 

[begreen]

There is only one ZC that currently meets the tax credit requirement. That is the Astria Montecito Estate.
https://astria.us.com/products/montecito-estate/ It's a big fireplace so check fit.
The new fireplace will most likely need a completely new chimney system. A freestanding stove will definitely need one if that is the choice.

You may find that it is less expensive to choose a fireplace or stove that doesn't qualify for the 26% credit.

 

[wjohn]

I read "chimney need replaced" a few times on the forum, but what does that actually mean? Just a new flexible ss pipe down the existing?

It means rip out the existing metal chimney piping and install complete new chimney. This may involve a fair amount of work depending on what the clearances work out to trusses, rafters, etc. with the new pipe, rework on the roof, etc. but it all depends. If you're really lucky you may be able to run it through the same hole with minimal work.

When I removed my ZC fireplace and replaced it with a stove, I had to tear everything out and put the new chimney in one truss bay further away from the wall in order to meet clearance requirements. I'm so glad I put in the effort to get it done, though. I can understand the frustration of trying to heat with your existing setup in your climate. I was previously using electric resistance heating here and with the stove being my main heat now, I've been able to reduce my electricity bills to 1/3 or less of what they were the last couple of winters.

 

[BUZZARD437]

I've got my stove installed in front of an old fireplace - the manufacturer recommended that vs in the actual fireplace for more efficient heating and access for maintenance. The hearth comes out 3' in front of the old fireplace, so it's not taking over the room - that might be an option for you?

I like that idea and I was hoping I could do something similar. May I ask, what stove do you have? We're you able to easily remedy the existing chimney? Thanks!

Option 4-1 find a location to install a free standing wood stove. It’s possibly the cheapest. Define the easiest. Tax credit for any units with HHV 75% and greater. Down side is the space it takes.

Option 4-2 add a cold weather mini split unit. Probably about the cost of wood stove install.

Option 4-3 upgrade the heatpump. My rule is if it’s less than a 16 seer and larger than 3 tons the energy savings is significant.

4-1 is a sure thing, but I would really like to use the fireplace space or just in front of it as I think I fireplace right next to another one would look a little silly in our setting unfortunately. 4-2 I have no idea what you're talking about to I will look into that haha! 4-3 is always a option I'm just afraid it won't make as big of a difference in the heating bill when it stays 5-20 degs all month!

There is only one ZC that currently meets the tax credit requirement. That is the Astria Montecito Estate.

Yup, that's what I saw and that isn't really feasible for us.

There is only one ZC that currently meets the tax credit requirement. That is the Astria Montecito Estate.
https://astria.us.com/products/montecito-estate/ It's a big fireplace so check fit.
The new fireplace will most likely need a completely new chimney system. A freestanding stove will definitely need one if that is the choice.

You may find that it is less expensive to choose a fireplace or stove that doesn't qualify for the 26% credit.

I'll try to do my research on ZC options in the mean time. Do you have any insight on heat output vs stove insert? Here's what I'm working with for what it's worth.

 

[BUZZARD437]

It means rip out the existing metal chimney piping and install complete new chimney. This may involve a fair amount of work depending on what the clearances work out to trusses, rafters, etc. with the new pipe, rework on the roof, etc. but it all depends. If you're really lucky you may be able to run it through the same hole with minimal work.

When I removed my ZC fireplace and replaced it with a stove, I had to tear everything out and put the new chimney in one truss bay further away from the wall in order to meet clearance requirements. I'm so glad I put in the effort to get it done, though. I can understand the frustration of trying to heat with your existing setup in your climate. I was previously using electric resistance heating here and with the stove being my main heat now, I've been able to reduce my electricity bills to 1/3 or less of what they were the last couple of winters.

I bet that's alot of work! From afar it seems pretty straight forward for my house - a ranch with vaulted ceilings. But I'm sure as soon as I rip it out I'll regret it as the project grows in difficulty lol. Let's say I have a straight shot up, would I just gut the fireplace and install a new one like this (8'' x 36'' DuraPlus Stainless Steel Chimney Pipe - 8DP-36SSCF) all the way up?

 

[jalmondale]

I like that idea and I was hoping I could do something similar. May I ask, what stove do you have? We're you able to easily remedy the existing chimney? Thanks!

I've got a Woodstock Fireview (this is my first year with it, but I absolutely love it) - the side loading works well with my floor plan, since it lets it have shorter clearances in front. I had someone install a 6" liner down the existing masonry chimney, which seemed to be pretty straightforward, and I expanded the hearth a little (it was already wide enough, just not quite deep enough).

 

[BUZZARD437]

I've got a Woodstock Fireview (this is my first year with it, but I absolutely love it) - the side loading works well with my floor plan, since it lets it have shorter clearances in front. I had someone install a 6" liner down the existing masonry chimney, which seemed to be pretty straightforward, and I expanded the hearth a little (it was already wide enough, just not quite deep enough).

Sweet thank you! When you say liner, do you mean something like this?

FireFlex Basic Flexible Chimney Liner Kit - 6 Inch x 25 Feet Amazon product ASIN B009KUSK6W

 

[Brawndo71]

Read the install manuals and specifications for the ZC fireplaces. They have all the necessary approved equipment and tolerances listed. I am in the same boat as you, but way ahead on the research. Thats not much to rip and out and have redone. I doubt a stove would fit there without sticking out a bunch. You likely would need whole new chimney pipe system, whatever is specified in the manual., which seems to be 6" insulated pack pipe for all the ZC i have looked at so far. I am guessing $7-10k for the project, likely going up the longer i wait. I have natural gas furnace for the house, so this isn't a necessity. I could do a stove since my ZC Heatilator is a corner install, but no one in the house wants one.

 

[BUZZARD437]

Read the install manuals and specifications for the ZC fireplaces. They have all the necessary approved equipment and tolerances listed. I am in the same boat as you, but way ahead on the research. Thats not much to rip and out and have redone. I doubt a stove would fit there without sticking out a bunch. You likely would need whole new chimney pipe system, whatever is specified in the manual., which seems to be 6" insulated pack pipe for all the ZC i have looked at so far. I am guessing $7-10k for the project, likely going up the longer i wait. I have natural gas furnace for the house, so this isn't a necessity. I could do a stove since my ZC Heatilator is a corner install, but no one in the house wants one.

View attachment 292021

Hey thank you for the reply. Looks like a very similar situation. What unit are you looking at installing if I may ask? Cheers.

 

[Brawndo71]

Osburn, Valcourt, Pacific Energy, Hearthstone. Basing it on a lot of categories and my needs. This isn't a primary heat source, and i won't be burning 3 cords a season. Wood is hard to come by cheaply as a source, except when my neighbor has his diseased oak taken down. I have to scour the area for free wood. I should have snagged some of the previous oak tree that he had taken down and let it season. Still building my list, as i am a year or two away from starting the project. I won't have a tv above mine, but i envision the final look for a fireplace or stove to be like these two examples for a corner with vaulted room. Depending on model of course. I think a stove would heat me out of the room, its 12'x21' with vaulted, but open to sunroom which pours cold air in all season long. Any high eff will help in that part. I plan on staying in this house another 30 years, i figure the device will outlive me.

 

[jalmondale]

Sweet thank you! When you say liner, do you mean something like this?

FireFlex Basic Flexible Chimney Liner Kit - 6 Inch x 25 Feet Amazon product ASIN B009KUSK6W

I think so, but I'm not totally sure - they charged a pretty penny for it, but it's different grade steel than that link. Otherwise it looks the same to me. The short horizontal part to connect to the stove is double-walled stove pipe. I had it installed by a local chimney company since fire/CO is something I don't want to mess around with (I'm all for learn-as-you-go DIY for most things, but this has too many things that could look right to me but actually be catastrophically wrong).

 

[c604]

I was in the same situation last year. I had a builder grade fireplace that was torn out and replaced. I ended up going with the Kozy Heat Z42 and couldn't be happier. I may not get as long a burn time as some, however it has been a perfect fit and heats our home in south central Indiana just fine. I ordered it last March and had it installed in June so I was ready for this season. I opened up around the face of the old fireplace enough for the crew to tear it out and install the new fireplace and I did the finish work and updated the hearth to save some money.

 

[BUZZARD437]

I think so, but I'm not totally sure - they charged a pretty penny for it, but it's different grade steel than that link. Otherwise it looks the same to me. The short horizontal part to connect to the stove is double-walled stove pipe. I had it installed by a local chimney company since fire/CO is something I don't want to mess around with (I'm all for learn-as-you-go DIY for most things, but this has too many things that could look right to me but actually be catastrophically wrong).

I agree with leaving it up to a professional. But if it truly is a easy install I'm going to be pissed if they just run a flex pipe down my chimney and charge me 1000$ for labor

I was in the same situation last year. I had a builder grade fireplace that was torn out and replaced. I ended up going with the Kozy Heat Z42 and couldn't be happier. I may not get as long a burn time as some, however it has been a perfect fit and heats our home in south central Indiana just fine. I ordered it last March and had it installed in June so I was ready for this season. I opened up around the face of the old fireplace enough for the crew to tear it out and install the new fireplace and I did the finish work and updated the hearth to save some money.

Awesome! Happy to hear that. I'll look into that one! No chimney work required?

 

[c604]

I had 26' of all new 6" chimney installed with a new stainless chimney chase cap as the old one had the big air cooled chimney going through it and I didn't want any possible water leak issues. After looking at the Kozy installation manual compared to some other ZC fireplaces it was an easy decision for me to go with it.

 

[Brawndo71]

I agree with leaving it up to a professional. But if it truly is a easy install I'm going to be pissed if they just run a flex pipe down my chimney and charge me 1000$ for labor

Awesome! Happy to hear that. I'll look into that one! No chimney work required?

What sort of chimney do you have now? Heatilator uses proprietary pipe I think. SL series maybe?