Reset time, now what

[begreen]

The economies of the world are shutting down as nations deal with the threat of a global pandemic. The question developing is what do we do on restart? For so many years the hue and cry has been that we can' shift from a fossil fuel economy because it would shut down the economy. Well here we are. Now what

Some thoughts:

“Working Together Is What Humans Are Built to Do”: Social Trust Is Key to Stemming the Coronavirus Crisis

A recent U.N. report said that nations “with higher levels of social trust and connections are more resilient in the face of natural disasters and economic crises.”

www.newyorker.com

 

[ABMax24]

IMO this slowdown will do the exact opposite. People are not concerned with green energy, they are concerned with energy they can afford. Oil prices are extremely low, as are fuel prices making almost all renewable energy more expensive right now. You also won't see many people switching out their older gasoline cars for more expensive electric cars.

When money is tight people make purchases based almost solely on cost, being the reason low income households are often more obese, because high calorie junk food is cheaper than the more healthy alternative. This will be the same, you will see more gasoline cars sold because the low cost of the fuel and lower cost for the vehicle itself. And forget about people installing solar panels on their homes, I see that disappearing for the next while as it will be considered an unnecessary use of limited funds.

The only way renewable energy will continue to grow in a sizable portion is if the government subsidizes or mandates it. I believe the vast majority of the public would fight this, suggesting the money should instead go to healthcare or restarting the economy.

 

[begreen]

The only way renewable energy will continue to grow in a sizable portion is if the government subsidizes or mandates it. I believe the vast majority of the public would fight this, suggesting the money should instead go to healthcare or restarting the economy.

Yet there is talk right now of bailing out the oil industry, which is already heavily subsidized. If people knew the real costs of our current system they would be able to make a more informed decision. Unfortunately, it is often the lobbyist and campaign donors that are making these decisions. Why continue this?

 

[SpaceBus]

With the bottom falling out of oil and coal the profits will all be in renewables. Perhaps the market will correct itself with ordinary people seeing just how much of a difference a few weeks of minimal fossil fuel usage does. I think now more than ever with folks being able to actually see the night stars (and starlink) we will see a big push to renewables. Finally the masses are seeing how much nicer the air is with less pollution. Even if folks don't believe in climate change, they have now seen first hand the true effects of air pollution on a personal level.

 

[woodnomore]

When were people not able to see the stars? Except for the people that live by the tall buildings.

 

[SpaceBus]

When were people not able to see the stars? Except for the people that live by the tall buildings.

Smog blocks the stars for most people. Seeing five or six stars is hardly seeing the whole night sky lit up.

 

[woodnomore]

Smog blocks the stars for most people. Seeing five or six stars is hardly seeing the whole night sky lit up.

Most people? I would say most people in major cities but certainly not the rest of the country.

 

[begreen]

Most people? I would say most people in major cities but certainly not the rest of the country.

Roughly 80% of the country's population is urban. And depending on the terrain, there can be a lot of human made smog in rural valleys too if there is a polluting industry there. The smog in Wyoming in some areas is quite bad.
(broken link removed to https://www.lung.org/local-content/_content-items/about-us/media/press-releases/wyoming-receives-mixed-grades)

 

[SpaceBus]

Most people? I would say most people in major cities but certainly not the rest of the country.

As Begreen said, the majority of all people live in urban areas. Part of why we moved to the edge of the country was less light and air pollution.

 

[begreen]

Then there's cow farts and dust from poor farming practices.

 

[Gearhead660]

Then there's cow farts and dust from poor farming practices.

I'll take dairy air over smog any day.

 

[begreen]

I'll take dairy air over smog any day.

LOL, I read that as derriere at first, but me too.

 

[ABMax24]

Yet there is talk right now of bailing out the oil industry, which is already heavily subsidized. If people knew the real costs of our current system they would be able to make a more informed decision. Unfortunately, it is often the lobbyist and campaign donors that are making these decisions. Why continue this?

You'd have a hard time finding any major industry in North America that is not subsidized in some form or another by the government. So I guess you could pull the subsidies from American producers and import oil from other countries instead, this bodes well for me, Keystone XL is soon to start construction and will put me back to work building facilities to fill the pipeline. So if you want to ship American domestic oil jobs to Canada that is fine by me.

You can limit domestic supply all you want, it won't reduce oil demand unless the cost of oil goes up, but since oil is a global commodity it will just be sourced from cheaper places like the middle east, Canada, or Mexico. The only way to fix this is to make renewables cheaper, the only way this will happen at the current time is to subsidize it, and I for one have better priorities for my tax dollars at the current moment.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

You guys are such Debbie Downers.

People aren't flying to Disney or Hawii this summer for vacation. They might choose to improve their home and get better windows, doors, insulation, etc. If they cant leave their home, they might as well make the place nicer and more efficient.

 

[WinterinWI]

Unfortunately, it is often the lobbyist and campaign donors that are making these decisions. Why continue this?

You act like there aren't deals like this happening on the green energy front. Plenty of shady back alley deals on green energy during the previous administration, with rich lobbyists and campaign donors involved.

 

[SpaceBus]

You act like there aren't deals like this happening on the green energy front. Plenty of shady back alley deals on green energy during the previous administration, with rich lobbyists and campaign donors involved.

Yes, but at least those guys are making the air cleaner while getting rich. The fossil fuel guys are screwing all of us over while taking our money.

 

[begreen]

Actually I am all for ending all subsidies and lobbying too.

 

[coaly]

When were people not able to see the stars? Except for the people that live by the tall buildings.

People in China. They actually have big LED screens of the sun coming up because they can't see the sun anymore leading to depression.



In truth, that sunrise was probably on the screen for less than 10 seconds at a time, as it was part of an ad for tourism in China’s Shandong province. Fact or fiction?
Can they see stars at night?

 

[woodnomore]

People complain of light pollution, other than not being able to see the stars what damage does light pollution do?

 

[byQ]

People complain of light pollution, other than not being able to see the stars what damage does light pollution do?

Well the basis of all life on earth is based on chlorophyll - light striking a plant's green cells. If this is interrupted animal/plant life is also interrupted.

 

[SpaceBus]

People complain of light pollution, other than not being able to see the stars what damage does light pollution do?

It causes issues with wildlife and the light pollution is also a result of photons bouncing off particulate pollution in the atmosphere. Light pollution can also cause issues with scientific instruments and even human biology.

 

[woodnomore]

So the people that require areas to be well lit and complain about light pollution are like the people who drive their car around and complain about climate change. So glad I live out where nothing ever happens.

 

[DBoon]

So the people that require areas to be well lit and complain about light pollution are like the people who drive their car around and complain about climate change.

This is an overly broad generalization that seems to do not much more than answer your own question. I am wondering where you are going with this. It's clear that you don't like urban or near-urban areas - that's fine, it's not for everyone (or for me, for that matter). At the same time, this is where the vast majority of people live and work.

 

[SpaceBus]

So the people that require areas to be well lit and complain about light pollution are like the people who drive their car around and complain about climate change. So glad I live out where nothing ever happens.

I can support an end to environmentally dangerous practices and still drive a car. I didn't choose to be born into this world, so I am forced to adopt to its ways. However, I can make choices in how I spend my money and live my life. Wherever possible I make choices that reflect positively on the environment. I'm working very hard to make my family more self sustaining and less dependent on carbon intensive infrastructure.

 

[woodnomore]

This is an overly broad generalization that seems to do not much more than answer your own question. I am wondering where you are going with this. It's clear that you don't like urban or near-urban areas - that's fine, it's not for everyone (or for me, for that matter). At the same time, this is where the vast majority of people live and work.

My point is people complain about light pollution, shut some of the lights off, just that simple.