Ssyko
Minister of Fire
Biglar as you stand in front looking into the hopper. the auger spring, is it turning clockwise and have about a 1/4” clearance from the bottom of auger chute?
Santa Fe Yet Again
- Thread starter biglar
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I'm going to go out and pop some caps and give the dog a run, then come back to this. Looking at the thing, it's all held solidly in the brackets and I don't see how it could twist enuf to un-mesh the gears. While I had it running on the bench, I put on heavy gloves and tried to push back on the auger to see if I could move the output gear and un-mesh it. Then pull for the same reason. Not a chance - it was rock solid.
When I get back, I'll pull that old motor back out of there and re-install the new motor. I'm uncertain about the depth collar that's mounted on the connector between motor and auger. When auger is turning and pulling pellets, there's prob'ly quite a bit of pulling force against the motor/gearbox, so seems to me that collar would be to take the pressure off that pot metal gearbox. I think I'll give it a tiny clearance between it and the mounting bracket and grease the face of it to reduce friction.
When I get back, I'll pull that old motor back out of there and re-install the new motor. I'm uncertain about the depth collar that's mounted on the connector between motor and auger. When auger is turning and pulling pellets, there's prob'ly quite a bit of pulling force against the motor/gearbox, so seems to me that collar would be to take the pressure off that pot metal gearbox. I think I'll give it a tiny clearance between it and the mounting bracket and grease the face of it to reduce friction.
Mmm.....stand to the right side - the wiring side - and look in at the auger motor and yes, it's turning clockwise. Yup, just about 1/4" from end of auger to the bottom of the chute/hopper.
Ssyko
Minister of Fire
Thats cool walk away for a while
when you get back, some food for thought. If the auger is rotating counter clockwise if will still feed some pellets till it binds up from trying to drive pellets into the bottom of the chute. Thats what the loud pop was (im thinking). The capacitor on the plug reverses the motor to run properly. If the cap is bad every other time the stove receives a call for heat it will reverse polarity. It is quadrafire’s way of Having the stove self unload an auger jam.
when you get back, some food for thought. If the auger is rotating counter clockwise if will still feed some pellets till it binds up from trying to drive pellets into the bottom of the chute. Thats what the loud pop was (im thinking). The capacitor on the plug reverses the motor to run properly. If the cap is bad every other time the stove receives a call for heat it will reverse polarity. It is quadrafire’s way of Having the stove self unload an auger jam.
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SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Auger looks like a clapped out overload spring on an air shock. Ssyko could be right, could be electrical, don't know but I sure don't like the auger design at all. Do have one question however... Is the far end of the coil spring auger flat as in blunt or is it tapered like a knife blade. If it's blunt, I believe I'd grind it to a knife blade (screwdriver shape. That way, if can scoop pellets rather than sliding over them.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Ssyko, have a question not pertaining to thus. Been rebuilding an excavator bucket in the shop and I need to top coat it with enamel. Can I use acetone to thin it with? I realize acetone is fast but it will get coated outside and it's not warm here (about 40F). I', mot about to paint it in the shop. Would be a terrible mess. Not catalyzed, just plain run of the mill alkyd.
Ssyko
Minister of Fire
its a flat spring coil with a rounded edge. you cant sharpen it may dig into the hopper wall and damage the chute.
painting: yep you can but take a month to dry unless its above 50
painting: yep you can but take a month to dry unless its above 50
Mt Bob
Minister of Fire
Sorry,sometimes is best to repeat stuff,just to make sure it was checked.Yes,you are right about the collar,it is to save the motor.At this point.I can only recommend totally cleaning out the auger and hopper,and inspect.Even if you have to borrow or buy a flexible bore scope. One thing I did not like--"showing me the chute was full. ", the drop chute on a top feeder stove like yours should never be full,the pellets get to the burn pot by gravity.However,they can get dirty and carbon-ed up,over the years.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Thanks. I'll paint it and move it back in the shop. I had to replace the side sheets and the back top. What a miserable job but I'll charge accordingly. It's a big bucket. Typical rock bucket, beat the heck.its a flat spring coil with a rounded edge. you cant sharpen it may dig into the hopper wall and damage the chute.
painting: yep you can but take a month to dry unless its above 50
Back at it. Had a nice hike with the pup and got my head together. I'll repeat, cause some still aren't reading - the auger is rotating clockwise ! ! ! I put the new auger motor back in and paid very close attention to each component. Also, I'm sorry I gave the impression the the "drop chute" from the top of the auger chute to the firebox was plugged. It's not, nor is the auger chute. With the auger out, shining a light down there shows the whole thing very clearly and it's clean, smooth and polished.
I also ran it on the bench again, put on the heavy leather gloves and tried to stop it or hopefully make it slip by pushing the auger hard into the reduction drive, then pulling it hard away from the drive, then twisting it - bending it - trying to tilt the gears out of mesh.
Nope. When that set screw holding the auger onto the motor output shaft is tightened, then the screws holding the motor onto the bracket and the whole assembly into the stove are tight, that thing is like one solid piece of steel. It doesn't flex, bend, twist....nada. I still have no idea how that can happen.....but it does.
I looked at the face of the collar with the set screw as well and at the black block it rides against. The block is hard, but not steel hard. Looks more to me like graphite impregnated...something....and the face of it has rotary scrub marks from the collar, which reinforces my belief that it's more of a thrust bearing to take strain off the drive motor ass'y.
With the whole assembly fully assembled and tightened down, I moved the collar down to where it was just touching the thrust block and tightened it solid. I also moved the motor output shaft deeper - all the way minus 1/16" into the auger and tightened it down solid - before anchoring the thrust collar. Powering it direct to 120vac showed proper operation, so I added pellets to the hopper and ran it long enuf to fill the auger tube and start dropping pellets to the firebox. Remember, this is with the new motor/reduction drive.
Way-uhl....it's been running and cycling fine on the t'stat for several cycles now and all seems well - and it's much quieter. I think that extra 1/16" of depth of the output shaft into the auger was a good thing, even tho' the end of the auger was already 3/16" - 1/4" from bottoming out. The only thing causing problems now - so far - is the reset tripping fairly often, which was a problem before all this started, too.....and this is with the new control module in place and set properly at 6 clicks/6 blinks of the blue light.
That tripping is a real PIA - many times, I've woken up to a freezing house, go out there and push the reset (someone gave me gas about it not really being a reset...and I submit that if it does the job of a reset, then, dammit, it's a reset. Boom) Is there any known way to increase the capacity of the thing to increase the force needed to trip it ?? Can it be jumpered ?? I feel some optimistic, finally, so maybe we're almost done with the fool thing. I hope. Maybe, just maybe I'll have pellet heat tonight, rather than propane heat, eh ??
Thanks to everyone for giving, or trying to give, a hand on this problem and it's appreciated. It's been a real hair-puller for me.
I also ran it on the bench again, put on the heavy leather gloves and tried to stop it or hopefully make it slip by pushing the auger hard into the reduction drive, then pulling it hard away from the drive, then twisting it - bending it - trying to tilt the gears out of mesh.
Nope. When that set screw holding the auger onto the motor output shaft is tightened, then the screws holding the motor onto the bracket and the whole assembly into the stove are tight, that thing is like one solid piece of steel. It doesn't flex, bend, twist....nada. I still have no idea how that can happen.....but it does.
I looked at the face of the collar with the set screw as well and at the black block it rides against. The block is hard, but not steel hard. Looks more to me like graphite impregnated...something....and the face of it has rotary scrub marks from the collar, which reinforces my belief that it's more of a thrust bearing to take strain off the drive motor ass'y.
With the whole assembly fully assembled and tightened down, I moved the collar down to where it was just touching the thrust block and tightened it solid. I also moved the motor output shaft deeper - all the way minus 1/16" into the auger and tightened it down solid - before anchoring the thrust collar. Powering it direct to 120vac showed proper operation, so I added pellets to the hopper and ran it long enuf to fill the auger tube and start dropping pellets to the firebox. Remember, this is with the new motor/reduction drive.
Way-uhl....it's been running and cycling fine on the t'stat for several cycles now and all seems well - and it's much quieter. I think that extra 1/16" of depth of the output shaft into the auger was a good thing, even tho' the end of the auger was already 3/16" - 1/4" from bottoming out. The only thing causing problems now - so far - is the reset tripping fairly often, which was a problem before all this started, too.....and this is with the new control module in place and set properly at 6 clicks/6 blinks of the blue light.
That tripping is a real PIA - many times, I've woken up to a freezing house, go out there and push the reset (someone gave me gas about it not really being a reset...and I submit that if it does the job of a reset, then, dammit, it's a reset. Boom) Is there any known way to increase the capacity of the thing to increase the force needed to trip it ?? Can it be jumpered ?? I feel some optimistic, finally, so maybe we're almost done with the fool thing. I hope. Maybe, just maybe I'll have pellet heat tonight, rather than propane heat, eh ??
Thanks to everyone for giving, or trying to give, a hand on this problem and it's appreciated. It's been a real hair-puller for me.
Ssyko
Minister of Fire
Ssyko
Minister of Fire
You are correct about the reset button, that is exactly what it is and called. Although it doesn’t trip it is a momentary on switch that when pressed signals the control box to beguin start up. If the stove is having false starts, they may be caused by the pellets your using or a phenomenon that plagues quads called cold start failure. It happens to us all.
Mt Bob
Minister of Fire
Nope. When that set screw holding the auger onto the motor output shaft is tightened, then the screws holding the motor onto the bracket and the whole assembly into the stove are tight, that thing is like one solid piece of steel. It doesn't flex, bend, twist....nada. I still have no idea how that can happen.....but it does.
I looked at the face of the collar with the set screw as well and at the black block it rides against. The block is hard, but not steel hard. Looks more to me like graphite impregnated...something....and the face of it has rotary scrub marks from the collar, which reinforces my belief that it's more of a thrust bearing to take strain off the drive motor ass'y.
With the whole assembly fully assembled and tightened down, I moved the collar down to where it was just touching the thrust block and tightened it solid. I also moved the motor output shaft deeper - all the way minus 1/16" into the auger and tightened it down solid - before anchoring the thrust collar. Powering it direct to 120vac showed proper operation, so I added pellets to the hopper and ran it long enuf to fill the auger tube and start dropping pellets to the firebox. Remember, this is with the new motor/reduction drive.
Way-uhl....it's been running and cycling fine on the t'stat for several cycles now and all seems well - and it's much quieter. I think that extra 1/16" of depth of the output shaft into the auger was a good thing, even tho' the end of the auger was already 3/16" - 1/4" from bottoming out. The only thing causing problems now - so far - is the reset tripping fairly often, which was a problem before all this started, too.....and this is with the new control module in place and set properly at 6 clicks/6 blinks of the blue light.
That tripping is a real PIA - many times, I've woken up to a freezing house, go out there and push the reset (someone gave me gas about it not really being a reset...and I submit that if it does the job of a reset, then, dammit, it's a reset. Boom) Is there any known way to increase the capacity of the thing to increase the force needed to trip it ?? Can it be jumpered ?? I feel some optimistic, finally, so maybe we're almost done with the fool thing. I hope. Maybe, just maybe I'll have pellet heat tonight, rather than propane heat, eh ??
That tripping is a real PIA - many times, I've woken up to a freezing house, go out there and push the reset (someone gave me gas about it not really being a reset...and I submit that if it does the job of a reset, then, dammit, it's a reset. Boom) Is there any known way to increase the capacity of the thing to increase the force needed to trip it ?? Can it be jumpered ?? I feel some optimistic, finally, so maybe we're almost done with the fool thing. I hope. Maybe, just maybe I'll have pellet heat tonight, rather than propane heat, eh ??
That tripping is a real PIA - many times, I've woken up to a freezing house, go out there and push the reset (someone gave me gas about it not really being a reset...and I submit that if it does the job of a reset, then, dammit, it's a reset. Boom) Is there any known way to increase the capacity of the thing to increase the force needed to trip it ?? Can it be jumpered ?? I feel some optimistic, finally, so maybe we're almost done with the fool thing. I hope. Maybe, just maybe I'll have pellet heat tonight, rather than propane heat, eh ??
I looked at the face of the collar with the set screw as well and at the black block it rides against. The block is hard, but not steel hard. Looks more to me like graphite impregnated...something....and the face of it has rotary scrub marks from the collar, which reinforces my belief that it's more of a thrust bearing to take strain off the drive motor ass'y.
With the whole assembly fully assembled and tightened down, I moved the collar down to where it was just touching the thrust block and tightened it solid. I also moved the motor output shaft deeper - all the way minus 1/16" into the auger and tightened it down solid - before anchoring the thrust collar. Powering it direct to 120vac showed proper operation, so I added pellets to the hopper and ran it long enuf to fill the auger tube and start dropping pellets to the firebox. Remember, this is with the new motor/reduction drive.
Way-uhl....it's been running and cycling fine on the t'stat for several cycles now and all seems well - and it's much quieter. I think that extra 1/16" of depth of the output shaft into the auger was a good thing, even tho' the end of the auger was already 3/16" - 1/4" from bottoming out. The only thing causing problems now - so far - is the reset tripping fairly often, which was a problem before all this started, too.....and this is with the new control module in place and set properly at 6 clicks/6 blinks of the blue light.
That tripping is a real PIA - many times, I've woken up to a freezing house, go out there and push the reset (someone gave me gas about it not really being a reset...and I submit that if it does the job of a reset, then, dammit, it's a reset. Boom) Is there any known way to increase the capacity of the thing to increase the force needed to trip it ?? Can it be jumpered ?? I feel some optimistic, finally, so maybe we're almost done with the fool thing. I hope. Maybe, just maybe I'll have pellet heat tonight, rather than propane heat, eh ??
That tripping is a real PIA - many times, I've woken up to a freezing house, go out there and push the reset (someone gave me gas about it not really being a reset...and I submit that if it does the job of a reset, then, dammit, it's a reset. Boom) Is there any known way to increase the capacity of the thing to increase the force needed to trip it ?? Can it be jumpered ?? I feel some optimistic, finally, so maybe we're almost done with the fool thing. I hope. Maybe, just maybe I'll have pellet heat tonight, rather than propane heat, eh ??
That tripping is a real PIA - many times, I've woken up to a freezing house, go out there and push the reset (someone gave me gas about it not really being a reset...and I submit that if it does the job of a reset, then, dammit, it's a reset. Boom) Is there any known way to increase the capacity of the thing to increase the force needed to trip it ?? Can it be jumpered ?? I feel some optimistic, finally, so maybe we're almost done with the fool thing. I hope. Maybe, just maybe I'll have pellet heat tonight, rather than propane heat, eh ??
Mt Bob
Minister of Fire
My God,son,none of your problems happened until you replaced your auger motor.Most people would have gotten a clue by now
!!
!!
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
I'd think propane would be cheaper that pellets, it is here by a long shot but I run corn which I grow so it's cheaper (by a tad) than propane so I run corn but... If I could only run pellets, I'd be on propane 100%.
Former Farmer
Minister of Fire
So you are having to depress the reset button to get it to start. You have the unit connected to a thermostat.
Have you tried disconnecting the thermostat and putting a jumper between the terminals to see how long it would run? Have you tried a different thermostat?
Have you checked in your burnpot to see how many pellets are dropping into it when starting up? Have you tried opening up the slide on the chute to allow more pellets to drop into the auger? This would allow more pellets to feed when it is trying to ignite them. Is your thermocouple adjusted properly? It should touch the ceramic cover and extend about 3/4" into burnpot (if I remember right).
It almost sounds to me that your thermostat is cycling the stove on and off to maintain your temperature. Upon startup, the stove is not dropping enough pellets into the burnpot to be able to start.
Have you tried disconnecting the thermostat and putting a jumper between the terminals to see how long it would run? Have you tried a different thermostat?
Have you checked in your burnpot to see how many pellets are dropping into it when starting up? Have you tried opening up the slide on the chute to allow more pellets to drop into the auger? This would allow more pellets to feed when it is trying to ignite them. Is your thermocouple adjusted properly? It should touch the ceramic cover and extend about 3/4" into burnpot (if I remember right).
It almost sounds to me that your thermostat is cycling the stove on and off to maintain your temperature. Upon startup, the stove is not dropping enough pellets into the burnpot to be able to start.
I think you're way out of line.My God,son,none of your problems happened until you replaced your auger motor.Most people would have gotten a clue by now
Yes, it's connected to a thermostat, but it sounds like you're referencing a short cycle type of problem. That's not the case. When the t'stat calls for heat, it drops pellets for 30 seconds, the element ignites the pellets, the stove waits for the 200º signal, then starts cycling the auger to maintain pellet flow to give an even burn. It runs steadily till t'stat is satisfied, then cycles off. Flame start up and running size is fine.
I'm still baffled by the auger motor running but auger not turning problem, but it seems to finally be resolved. Thankfully. Knock wood.
Last night and this morning it ran fine and maintained set temperature perfectly, except for "tripping the re-set" several times. I don't know what else to call it. The stove quits - just sits there, as it did just a few minutes ago. Room got cold, I got up and checked the t'stat and it read 68º, while heat set point is still at 72º, as it has been all morning. I reached behind it and pressed the black button below the speed switch and it immediately started up. It doesn't take long for full flame to establish and it's running hard now, bringing temp. up to set point. This has been a problem all along but is worse now than previously and it's continued thru quite a few brands of pellets.
Thanks for your thoughts.....keep 'em coming.
Ssyko
Minister of Fire
I type questions and don't get answers so it is getting difficult to try and pinpoint your issue. i have run your stoves big brother for 19 yrs, cb1200. and its still in my shop. if you look in the pot with a mirror, look for the opening for the igniter. that hole needs to be scraped every time you clean the stove. now you said the stove is clean, ok so the only thing in your stove that creates a vacuum is the combustion blower . if it is original it may be getting tired and slowing down from heat or the fins are beat and not pulling air through the pot to start it. the pathway for air to enter the stove is through the pedistal and goes up through the pot to the heat exchangers and down the back side to the combustion blower chamber through the blower and out the vent. if there is a leak between the pedistal and the blower it can pull air from there instead of going through the pot. now your igniter does not light pellets physically it uses heated air that is pulled through the igniter hole while it is on. so if there isnt enough air being pulled it will not go any further in its programming. the reset button does not trip it is a momentary switch it is in the off position untill you press it then it make a connection until you release it. when you think it trips it is actually the stove not completing its start up, which is due to quick cycling, lack of air, lack of fuel.
Former Farmer
Minister of Fire
Did you try setting the switch on the control module to 7 instead of 6? 7 will give a 10% increase for the feed rate.
I tried that, yes, and had a huge flame.....far too much, so I set it back to 6. It's been running perfectly all night and morning.....explanation below.
Someone commented about expense of propane vs. pellets, saying that propane is far cheaper in their area. Way back, I checked with several people in town who use propane furnaces in mobile homes. Our heating season here is almost exactly 6 months and they were fairly even on using ~$200/month of propane = $1200. I've consistently used 1 - 1½ tons of pellets per year @ ~$285/ton = $285 - $427.50. No comparison.....I'll stick with the pellets.
Someone commented about expense of propane vs. pellets, saying that propane is far cheaper in their area. Way back, I checked with several people in town who use propane furnaces in mobile homes. Our heating season here is almost exactly 6 months and they were fairly even on using ~$200/month of propane = $1200. I've consistently used 1 - 1½ tons of pellets per year @ ~$285/ton = $285 - $427.50. No comparison.....I'll stick with the pellets.
I see where you've asked about auger direction and a couple of others, but nothing like this. Not sure what I'm missing here - I've tried to be thorough and clear in my posts, but to get an answer you have to ask a question.
When I clean the stove, as I said in an earlier post, I dump the firepot, then vacuum the interior out. Pull the sliders to clean the heat transfer tubes, pull the plate at lower right rear to clean exhaust duct, the use a metal rod I bent up to clean the 4 small holes across lower rear of firepot, then all the larger holes around the barrel of the firepot. Yes, I read the manual when I 1st bought it and maintain it carefully. Ignition of pellets has never been an issue.
Now it's my turn - I ask a question and don't get an answer.......I asked about the "reset" button and got several comments about it not being a reset, just a momentary contact. Fine and dandy, I don't much care how it functions, as I said before, the thing acts like and does the job of a reset, so I call it a reset.
Again, as I said before, the stove will be running, then it will quit, even tho' t'stat is still calling for heat. Reach behind the stove and press the little black button just below the speed selector switch - the "reset" - and the thing will take off running again and it might go for an hour or a week, but eventually it will quit again - usually in the middle of the night. I don't care what it's called or how it works........."I Want To Know Why It's Cutting Out and How To Stop It From Doing That."
Now, all that said, I mentioned earlier that the #2 snap disk and the vacuum switch seemed to be a bit erratic in operation when checking them with an ohmmeter, so yesterday I replaced both, just to see what would happen. The stove hasn't missed a beat since and has been running perfectly since last evening. YeeeHawww.
To those who helped and tried to help, I thank you. To the smart-ass......take a flying leap.
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