Septic system advice

[Bobbin]

Inherited home (one sibling as "partner"), NH property. System is 40 yrs. old and the exisiting tank is metal (500gal.). House has been basically vacant for 10 yrs. (occasional spring/summer/fall use). A lot of roots were removed 2-3 yrs. ago but the dreaded slow flush of the "important stuff" is now upon us. Next step?

I suspect it will be a complete re-do to properly address the doo-doo. What do you recommend as the first step? engineer? I really need a basic step by step primer. We're on the fence about keeping the place or selling it and I believe (either way) resolving the septic issue is job #1.

 

[heat seeker]

Sounds like the roots are back in the pipe. You could rent a roto-rooter, or hire someone. You could also hire a guy with a camera to send down there to see what's going on. It's my experience that once the roots get in there, it's an ongoing battle to keep them from clogging the pipe.

If you have a reliable septic company, have them come out and do an assessment.

You won't be able to sell the place without a good septic system. Anyone with two neurons to rub together would get a home inspection done before purchasing the house.

So when you do fix it, you may decide to stay there, anyway.

 

[Bobbin]

"To sell or not to sell, that is the question". Regardless, I know we'll have to deal with the septic issue. My brother is debating a "fix", but frankly, IMO the only real "fix" is replacement. It's nigh on time and we both know it, but one of us is still battling denial (IMO). I need to familiarize myself with the step-by-step process. Forewarned is forearmed, you know?

 

[Clarkbug]

Find out what sort or permit or testing is needed for your area first. Then you will know what else you need. Most excavating guys near you know the drill, and can provide the services you need.

IMO, replace it all, then list that as a selling point. The fix might not work, and any buyer will be leery of the tank, or their inspector might be.

 

[Bobbin]

If you have to replace an "existing" system (failed/failing) is it necessary to start from scratch; perc. tests/etc.? (suspect so). We wouldn't be interested in increasing the capacity, but any replacement must clearly be an updated version of the exhausted one (same bedroom # and bathroom#). Existing system is in ground and I recall hearing "marl" mentioned a lot when it was installed... as a kid I recall that there was a lot of "vanilla" colored clay around the footings for the original footprint of what is now the house. I cringe at the spectre of a raised system, but it's necessary, so be it; it's important!

 

[peakbagger]

If you suspect the septic system is marginal you will need to disclose it to future buyer and 99% of the time unless its cash sale, you will have to have the system inspected and tested. So its choice of fix it yourself or have the cost to fix it deducted from the house sale. Most buyers will keep walking unless its fixed.

You really need to figure out if the problem is in the pipes going from the house or in the field. If you can open the tank you can "stick" it to determine the solids build up. Basically find a good long stick and push it down to the bottom od the tank. If there are solids near the level of the outlet, figure the field is probably shot. Many folks just get the tank pumped and live with a marginal field. Okay for occasional use but a PITA when it back up during a party. If you get it pumped, flush the toilet a couple of times and observe the flow into the tank, if it gushes right in the inlet pipes are probably good but it is slow the pipe may be plugged with roots or crushed.

NH does require a permit prepared by a state licensed designer but if its an existing system they have to give you a permit to replace it in kind. Check out a Presby System, the drain field is much smaller than a standard one and if you are in clay soils odds are you need to haul in additional gravel to raise the system. This also means that you may need to be put in pump up system. The permit can take several weeks.

 

[Warm_in_NH]

Keep in mind that the slow flow out of the house could merely be a root in the pipe between the house and the tank and if the gods are smiling on you the rest of it is okay for now. In that case a fix would be a new run of pipe from house to tank and with minimal use it'll last forever.
However, in a sale situation a metal tank should set off alarm bells to any buyer.

 

[begreen]

If you have to replace an "existing" system (failed/failing) is it necessary to start from scratch; perc. tests/etc.? (suspect so). We wouldn't be interested in increasing the capacity, but any replacement must clearly be an updated version of the exhausted one (same bedroom # and bathroom#). Existing system is in ground and I recall hearing "marl" mentioned a lot when it was installed... as a kid I recall that there was a lot of "vanilla" colored clay around the footings for the original footprint of what is now the house. I cringe at the spectre of a raised system, but it's necessary, so be it; it's important!

This depends on the property and local regs. If a total rebuild then are you talking drainfield too? Or will replacing the tank and connecting plumbing to the Dbox suffice? A new drainfield requires testing, engineering and permits. A new tank and connecting piping may not.

 

[Bobbin]

Thank you all so much for your input. I'm the proud owner of a raised septic system at my home and "believe you me", we are mindful of its "care and feeding". We have the tank pumped regularly, there is no "pig" in the sink, and we follow the "low flow" reg.s carefully.

I'm a little freaked out by this turn of events, but I'm also enough of a realist to understand that problems like this rarely "fix themselves" and sometimes you simply have to "suck it up" and do what must be done. You've given me good advice and have given me a target to keep me focussed.

 

[Lockpicker]

You really need to figure out if the problem is in the pipes going from the house or in the field. If you can open the tank you can "stick" it to determine the solids build up. Basically find a good long stick and push it down to the bottom od the tank. If there are solids near the level of the outlet, figure the field is probably shot. .

I am a little late on this one,, I am not seeing as how the level of solids in the tank can be a determining factor on the condition of the field. The solids will fall to the bottom of the tank and the liquids run out into the field. If your solids are up near the outlet it only means your tank needs pumped. If the D-box or the lines to your field are blocked you will have sewage seeping out around the lid to the tank or the vent when you use a good bit of water like a load of wash or a long shower. If you are getting back up into the house and slow drain then the problem could very well be between the tank and the house. I would try to determine best I could where the problem is then have a septic company come out and pump the tank and inspect it. Tell them what you have experienced. They might very well be able to tell which side is the problem when they get the tank empty and may be able to fix you up from there. If you do determine a new system is in order, start at your local township building, they will give you all the necessary steps and procedures you'll need to do.

Good luck,, these things are not fun to deal with.

 

[Swedishchef]

Reading posts like this make me want have a house with city sewage lines the next time I move...

 

[Highbeam]

I am a little late on this one,, I am not seeing as how the level of solids in the tank can be a determining factor on the condition of the field. The solids will fall to the bottom of the tank and the liquids run out into the field. If your solids are up near the outlet it only means your tank needs pumped. If the D-box or the lines to your field are blocked you will have sewage seeping out around the lid to the tank or the vent when you use a good bit of water like a load of wash or a long shower. If you are getting back up into the house and slow drain then the problem could very well be between the tank and the house. I would try to determine best I could where the problem is then have a septic company come out and pump the tank and inspect it. Tell them what you have experienced. They might very well be able to tell which side is the problem when they get the tank empty and may be able to fix you up from there. If you do determine a new system is in order, start at your local township building, they will give you all the necessary steps and procedures you'll need to do.

Good luck,, these things are not fun to deal with.

Thing is, if the solids level was allowed to rise high enough that the solids ran out the outlet along with the "clean" liquids then the field could be ruined. So many people dont do anything unless sewage backs up or surfaces in the yard.

A lot to be said for city sewage service.

 

[Swedishchef]

On another note, all modern septic tanks (at least in Canada) contain filters that prevent solids from reaching the field. However, what most people don't realize, is that you're supposed to clean it every 6 months in order to prevent sewage backup in your house. I am cleaning mine next month.

Andrew

 

[Lockpicker]

Yes septic tanks should have baffles to keep the solids in th tank. In the township i live in it is mandatory to pump the tank every two years. I could probably go 10 years or more with just my wife and I living here.

 

[Dune]

very first thing is to pump the tank. Pumping the tank alone may solve the problem. Whatever service you call should bring a camera, if they don't have one, keep calling.
You could be suffering from a simple partial clog, possibly inside the house.

If the pipe is rooted, replace with 4" PVC, pitched 1/4" per foot. Pitch is critical, too much and liquids can run by leaving solids behind, too little leads to easy clogging.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

I would suggest going on the NHDES web site and order the design plans for your existing system if available. then call a septic designer. maybe the designer on the original plan. If no design on file I would ask around and find out who the installer was to determine the specifics of your existing system. I would guess that your system is stone and pipe at that age. with your design plan you can locate the tank and dbox for evaluation. Good luck!

 

[TMonter]

very first thing is to pump the tank. Pumping the tank alone may solve the problem. Whatever service you call should bring a camera, if they don't have one, keep calling.
You could be suffering from a simple partial clog, possibly inside the house.

If the pipe is rooted, replace with 4" PVC, pitched 1/4" per foot. Pitch is critical, too much and liquids can run by leaving solids behind, too little leads to easy clogging.

Be careful there many states don't allow PVC for drain applications, you have to use Sch40 or greater ABS in some locales and it depends entirely on what you have currently in place If it's an older house it's very likely ABS and not PVC.

 

[Chimney Smoke]

In the township i live in it is mandatory to pump the tank every two years.

That's kind of a strange township rule. How do they enforce it? I wonder if someone on the town council owns a septic cleaning business

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

I believe this system from the original post is in NH.
If there is a design for the system it will be on file @ NHDES on line. they will have the construction approval and the approval for operation. It is a fair approval system and well documented. a local subsurface disposal designer will most likely have the knowledge of the contractor that built system. If it is a good design it maybe possible to just repair the failed portion of the system.
This season has been a wet one, so its possible that the field maybe to close to the seasonal high water table and is saturated. it would be best to have a designer present when you pump the tank. The tanks do not need to be pumped if the system is operating correctly. my "guess" is that the field is saturated and not enough air is being introduced to break down the solids. IMHO

 

[Highbeam]

The tanks do not need to be pumped if the system is operating correctly.

That is false. There are things that enter a septic that accumulate and will never decompose. Pump times vary but the tank must be pumped.

 

[TMonter]

That is false. There are things that enter a septic that accumulate and will never decompose. Pump times vary but the tank must be pumped.

My septic guys base pumping frequency entirely how much sludge is in the bottom of the tank. Every time they pump based on the sludge they find they recommend a time before pumping it again. I typically do ours every 4-7 years but we also have a larger tank and don't use anti-bacterial soap and go very light on bleach usage.

 

[Highbeam]

That is the proper way to do it. You can even measure sludge and scum levels without pumping but all of that depends on an owner that cares enough and knows enough to do things right. In the perceived abscence of smart people, government spouts off pumping intervals based on the worst case.

In my county, the tank must be pumped every three years.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

I have been in my house since 1992. I pumped when I bought it, to inspect the tank. It works well. Only trouble I had was a paper plate stuck in pipe when kids where young.

 

[Highbeam]

Ive cleared a couple of clogs. Its a spooky thing to open the lid of a septic tank when sewage is backed up into the house 5 or 6 feet above. Either the inlet is plugged ( usually a big wad of tp at the inlet baffle) or the outlet is plugged and if it's the outlet then you need to be ready for a fountain of sewage when you lift that lid.

 

[Treacherous]

On the 40 year old inlet pipe on my tank at my cabin it started to collapse a few years back and in fixing that discovered a fir tree had crushed the inlet pipe about a foot away from the tank. It's such a simple design one could use a ditch witch in a weekend and completely replace drain field. All the soaps, bleaches and cleaners probably don't help the bacterial action and probably cause some to have to pump earlier than others. I am sure many are pumping their sink waste disposer into tank as well instead of putting in compost pile or garbage.