Shed specifications for EKO/Tarm boiler with storage tank

[Beno]

Hi again,

By now we made up our mind, to go with concrete floors with radiant heating on both levels. I'd like to have the EKO/Tarm boiler with storage tank outside, in a shed, because we don't have enough room in the house and also, not to heat the house in the summer when I fire the boiler for DHW. A boiler is 1200 pounds, and a 800 gal water tank is heavy too (800 * 8.33) 6664 pounds. How do you put all this in a shed? Do you need a concrete floor with footings, to support this preassure and to allow you to close the door in the winter?
Also, let's take EKO, what clearance do you need? The EKO manual is not very clear here, h > 2.25 m ?

Thanks,
Beno

 

[wdc1160]

Beno, The water weight is spread out. If you do some rough figuring a car would put more pressure sq/ft than a water tank. I plan on throwing it on the 2x6's and I was gonna put in more than 800 gals.

 

[Nofossil]

I doubt that you'd ever regret pouring a slab. It's easier to build on and seal to. It won't rot if it gets damp, and bugs won't eat it. It doesn't need to be very thick - I have my 880 gallon tank on a 4" slab and it's fine.

Seems like there's merit in insulating the structure so that you can go away for a good long time and not worry about freezing.

 

[sled_mack]

I don't think you'd regret pouring a pad. As nofossil said, it can be pretty thin. Just don't get upset if it gets some slight cracks.

I used telephone poles for the posts and made a "pole building" type of shed. Between the posts, at the bottom, I laid some more telephone poles. This made a box on the ground that I filled with crushed stone. Now the floor is higher than the surrounding ground, and the stone doesn't get wet.

My tank is FRP. I didn't trust setting it on the stones. I put down 3/8 plywood over the stones, then 2 inch blue foam insulation board, then 1/4 plywood over that. Each time, staggering the edges. Setting the tank on that protects the tank from the stone and provides some insulation break to the stone/ground below.

 

[leaddog]

If you are in an area that 20ft shipping containers are available at a good price they would make a great boiler shed. You can side them to make them pleasing to the eye. They are sturdy, fireproof, watertite, and moveable if you ever want to move. Thereis enough room for a storage tank, boiler, and dry wood. just a thought.
leaddog

 

[sled_mack]

If you are in an area that 20ft shipping containers are available at a good price they would make a great boiler shed. You can side them to make them pleasing to the eye. They are sturdy, fireproof, watertite, and moveable if you ever want to move. Thereis enough room for a storage tank, boiler, and dry wood. just a thought.
leaddog

I really like that idea. A bit late for me now, but still a great idea.

 

[wdc1160]

Leaddog, I thought of using containers, because we usem at work. How much can you getem for??

 

[Willman]

How much can you get em for??

20' containers out of Auburn Maine around $2500, not sure if thats delivered. I figure I could scrounge and fab up for less.
Will

 

[Willman]

By now we made up our mind, to go with concrete floors with radiant heating on both levels.

You might want to do some research if you haven't already on heatinghelp.com. Lots of threads on flooring methods.
Will

 

[leaddog]

Leaddog, I thought of using containers, because we usem at work. How much can you getem for??

I just got a quote of $1300 picked up in detroit. I'm sure you can get them close to that price in other major cities. They weigh about 7000lbs so they will fit on my trailer. They didn't have a refer but that would be nice cause you could use the back and sides and floor for the tank and they would be somewhat insulated. There is also tank containers of about 5500gal out there and you could get some really big storage with one of those. They wouldn't be pressureized but would be easy to insulate. I have no idea what they would cost but I'm going to keep looking.
I looked on ebay and found the web sites that way and emailed with what I was looking for.
I have two semi trailers, one 48ft and one 53ft (wide body). I use them for storage and tractor garage and they work great. I buried them so they are ground level. Those I paid 600 for the alluminum 48ft and 1200 for the fiberglass. The 48 is worth more than that for scrap.
leaddog

 

[canyon]

Beno if you go to the trouble of pouring a slab for your boiler/storage room (a great way to go depending on site) go to the extra trouble and pour curbs of at least a 2x4 height for your walls to sit on. That way your framing will be more protected for the long haul with inevitable leaks, spills, floods etc. It could add decades of life to your building and save you or someone all kinds of trouble.

 

[Chris S]

Don't skimp on the concrete , or steel you put in it for that matterit's an investment. i like 6" thick concrete min ( reinforced) for that type of application and here's my logic
Concrete companies ( in my area anyway ) charge short load charges for small amounts of concrete. In our area one company charges a flat rate such that 6 yds of concrete costs more than 7. We often order 7 & leave the extra yard on the truck. I know this doesn't make sense. Another way to look at it is that some companies charge a lower rate for the concrete but a flat rate for delivery ( like $200) Obviously 200 delivery on 10 yds is 20/yd, but on a minmum order like 3 yds, its 67/ yd delivery which is the same price as the concrete itself
Or... you could mix on site- still not cost effective.
If you're don't pour concrete all the time, do the math & get the pricing before you build your forms, my logic may make sense then

 

[Tony H]

I went thru these items a few months ago and decided on a metal shed with cinder block floors. Here is the logic ..... wood flammable and must observe clearances. For the EKO they are listed in metric so a conversion is needed 2.25M = 7.381889763779 Feet ( http://www.unit-conversion.info/length.html )
Since the space was limited I went with metal where the only clearance issues are with access to the unit.
For the floor I considered concrete and even spoke with my next door neighbor about it he suggested cinder block, another factor here is property taxes and if the structure is permanent it requires permits and increases the taxable value of the property. After considering the weight of the EKO 1500lbs we decided that 4x4x8 block over a 6" base of compacted stone would do the trick and since the building can be lifted off and moved it will not be considered perrmanent. The cost of concrete was also a factor as the block was only about 125.00 and the stone was left over and would have been needed with concrete anyway. By the way my neighbor is a cement contractor I don't remember for sure but I think he said the minimum cost for an delivered order of concrete was ? 600.00 ? and the plant is only about 3 miles from my house. We built the stone up to grade so the actual building is 4" above grade for easy draining. The shed itself is a 10 x 12 model and a little bigger would be better but the cost was reasonable at 280.00. The only part lacking is the shed walls are not very strong so they cannot be used to support the piping or anything else. I am considering different ideas to make a support system for the piping and AC runs and also the easiest way to attach insulation. The shed did pass the snow test as we had a couple of big ones and the snow just slid off the metal roof - sort of gets me thinking about metal for the house next time.

Tony

 

[Beno]

Lots of great ideas... Thanks everybody.
Tony, where did you get the shed from, for only $250 ? How do you insulate such a shed? We considered metal roof for the new house, but it's much more expensive than shingles, isn't it?

 

[Tony H]

The shed is made by Arrow and was on sale at maynerds. I am thinking of using rigid insulation held with glue and/or toggles and plastic washers thru the metal walls. Heck I might even experiment with using foam and then the thin cheap 4x8 rigid plastic sheeting they use in showers over the insulation.
I think a metal roof would be more expensive but longer lasting plus no ice jams and no need for gutters. Due to the design of the house I have trouble with ice that would be nice to eliminate.

 

[Chris S]

In my area even a movable shed is taxable
If you use rigid insulation keep in mind that that stuff is flammable- read the printed label on the product. Also most paneling type products have a very high flame spread rating so what you just saved with your inexpensive shed may reqire you to use a cement board type product for your finishes.
Very creative approach- i hope it works for you

 

[Tony H]

Good point Chris, that's why I like to think out loud before any actual work starts giving me and others a chance to take a closer look before starting. Maybe need to look at fiberglass or mineral wool with some chicken wire to hold it in place.