Smoke back when the power goes out?

[Chrisnow86]

quick question guys, when the power goes out has anyone experienced smoke back into the hopper? I lost power the other night at 2 am my wife woke me up and I went down and scraped the pot out. And waited up for two hours till it came back on to start the stove. I was just wondering with the augers full of pellets can the fire go up the augers into the hopper with the stove off?

 

[bags]

We had power out here about 2 -3 weeks ago. I did see a small about of smoke in the hopper when I opened it and the fire box had a decent amount. Didn't have my UPS yet but do now. All in all with mine it was minor over all. I've had much more smoke in the house cold starting the wood insert and stuff with the doors open and a cold flue. I would venture to say just leave it all closed up and the air would not be there for any fire.

I was curious and goofing around and what little smoke got into the house was from me opening the door and hopper lid. Just wanted to see what it did.

 

[Chrisnow86]

Ya i did the same thing the other night lol I have a 5000 watt Honda generator and gen tran box hook up.. But that takes time to get going, plus I was wondering while I'm not home and the power goes out what would happen... Don't wanna loose the house lol

 

[bags]

Those Honda generators are sweet little units. I don't have a Honda but I do have one. PITA dragging it all out running cords etc; As soon as you do the juice pops back on. We were out for 4 hours last time because some truck wiped out some main line. Usually it's not long. The house still stayed plenty warm. I won't drag a generator out unless it's going to be a long while.

 

[TimfromMA]

2 words.

Battery Backup.

 

[bags]

consider how bushfire behaves. Fast uphill slow downhill. Then remove oxygen and it stops. So smoke can get into the hopper but fire cannot.

Good way to explain it and an excellent example!

 

[Chrisnow86]

i will say with the natural draft the stove kept burning for 5 min after the power went out, about a 6" flame till i scrapped out the amber's to put it out, noticed some of the pellets started burning at the end of the tube.. How long are you guys getting out of your battery back up? i know it varies with the size back up and stove you have, but just wondering.

 

[lordgrinz]

I had power go out many times, never had an issue. But the power outages here are really short, even with that massive outage we had in NE where people went weeks without power, I was only without power for about 14 hours. I think we are on a must keep up electrical supply lane, because we rarely are out for very long. I decided it wasn't worth all the hassle of a battery backup, or generators.

 

[bags]

Chris A UPS will be enough to cycle your stove and do a shut down to evacuate all of the smoke. They don't run the stove during outages per se. However, they can if you hook up additional batteries. I have read here of peeps getting 8 hour burn times and longer depending on their set ups. Even * hours is likely more than enough unless it's some crazy unforeseen outage like lordrinz talked of. By then I'm on a generator anyway. Don't have the gen. set up figured for my stove yet but will. Also even if your out of juice for a few hours your house retains the heat for the most part. then your up and running again soon enough. I only have the UPS as any back up now.

 

[Chrisnow86]

Ya I was thinking of maybe a few deep cycle marine batterys with a converter would Prob get you a few hours

 

[TimfromMA]

I get 8 hours of runtime out of 90aH worth of batteries.

 

[Chrisnow86]

I wouldn't mind that so I don't have to listen to my Honda chugging away while I sleep...

 

[bags]

Realistically the UPS and marine battery back up is the way to go and will have you covered. It is very rare the juice is out for longer than several hours. It can happen but not very likely. Batteries are quiet too. Tim above has a great back up IMO.

Now if you are, I need to get my bunker built before SHTF paranoid them the Battery deal might not be for you. No need for heat then because the nukes will keep ya good and toasty.

 

[TimfromMA]

Realistically the UPS and marine battery back up is the way to go and will have you covered. It is very rare the juice is out for longer than several hours. It can happen but not very likely. Batteries are quiet too. Tim above has a great back up IMO.

Now if you are, I need to get my bunker built before SHTF paranoid them the Battery deal might not be for you. No need for heat then because the nukes will keep ya good and toasty.

I've got a few improvement ideas in mind.

 

[bags]

Well, Let's hear them. I will probably be working on the marine battery backup in Jan sometime. I have way too many other fish to fry presently. No time now. Do you keep them on a battery tender and roll them out when you need to? I really don't want two big batteries decorating my living room. Wife would love that!

I saw where you have the set up in series with alligator clips. Could be wrong and I am foggy as it's been awhile.

 

[TimfromMA]

The batteries are in series using heavy gauge wire with ring terminals.

My APC / battery setup sits in the room downstairs below the stove. I ran a piece of romex up inside the wall to an outlet right next to the stove. The downstairs end of the romex, inside a wall box, has a plug attached that runs out and connects to the APC.

Improvements I have in mind are things like more batteries to increase run time, a battery switch to switch in and out different battery groups and other such tid bits.

 

[bags]

That sounds like a nice and well thought out set up. My lower level is slab on grade but open and above ground so no option running below but I could maybe figure out a way to run romex to a utility room or closet. not sure if batteries in those areas would be an issue. Or set them up on a mobile cart for a quick move to the UPS and stove.

That wouldn't work unless I was home during the outage though. Haven't researched this much yet but will in due time when I have some of that,

 

[TimfromMA]

Heres a few photos. Im sorry if the some of the pictures are dark. My tablet doesn't have a flash.

This is the outlet my stove plugs into. The orange and black wires are for an eventual voltmeter that I can use to monitor battery depletion.

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This is the wall box downstairs that the APC connects to.

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The APC and batteries

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Battery 1

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Battery 2

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Battery connection to the APC

(broken image removed)

 

[gfreek]

TomfromMA, are those batteries connected in series for 24V or parallel for 12V??

 

[TimfromMA]

Series....24V

 

[CaptSpiff]

Tim, do you have any voltage numbers for when the batteries are float charging?

I plan on doing a similar setup, but I'm a bit concerned about blowing the snot (technical term) out of the APC charging circuit, if I discharge the larger batteries for several hours. Any idea if the charging circuit is current limiting? Also, do you have voltage numbers for this recharging condition? Say at 1min mark, 10min mark and 1hr mark, following a 2 hour discharge at 20% APC load?

Last question is: what is the battery voltage during discharge at 1min mark, 1 hr mark, and 4 hr mark?

I'm assuming your running/discharging load is about 200W on a 1000W APC in my questions above.

Thanks.

 

[Pellet-King]

I get 8 hours of runtime out of 90aH worth of batteries.

Dont like the idea of big battery's in my living room, plus they vent sulpher acid fumes

 

[TimfromMA]

Tim, do you have any voltage numbers for when the batteries are float charging?

I plan on doing a similar setup, but I'm a bit concerned about blowing the snot (technical term) out of the APC charging circuit, if I discharge the larger batteries for several hours. Any idea if the charging circuit is current limiting? Also, do you have voltage numbers for this recharging condition? Say at 1min mark, 10min mark and 1hr mark, following a 2 hour discharge at 20% APC load?

Last question is: what is the battery voltage during discharge at 1min mark, 1 hr mark, and 4 hr mark?

I'm assuming your running/discharging load is about 200W on a 1000W APC in my questions above.

Thanks.

I use the internal APC charger for maintaining the float. I have a proper marine battery charger I use for actual recharging. Since the the batteries need to be disconnected from the APC prior to charging and the APC will not work with the batteries disconnected, I plan on getting a second set of batteries and connecting them all through a battery selector switch so I can switch in different battery sets to always keep at least 1 set connected for APC operation.

Ive never measured battery voltage while charging but I have measured while discharging. Heres a list of voltages and times.

0hr: 25V
1hr: 24.58V
2hr: 24.33V
3hr: 24.16V
4hr: 24.00V
5hr: 23.84V
6hr: 23.63V
7hr: 23.40V
8hr: 23.15V

 

[TonyVideo]

AGM batteries are safer for indoor use.

 

[CaptSpiff]

OK, those are fantastic numbers. I routinely take my 12v batteries down to 11.5, so your's maintaining 23.15 to 8hrs is great.

But my concerns are when the power comes back and the ups automatically goes into recharge mode. I'm thinking your 98 Ahr battery setup is approx 10 times the OEM battery capacity. You mentioned that you do not let the APC charging system handle the "deep discharge" recharging effort a/w your over sized batteries. How do you manage that?