Smoke Dragon, Creosote, SS Liner and Poor Chimney Design Advice

[workboot]

While burning well seasoned wood in and older "Smoke Dragon" stove I have noticed lots of creosote condensing on the chimney cap and staining the chimney. I figure the main reason for this is that the 24', 12" flue is way too big for the amount of air the stove intake requires. For example, I can open the stove door and have clear fumes coming out of the chimney but the moment the door is closed it smokes. Even with the air intake completely open and the fire a complete blowtorch. Hopefully a smaller diameter flue will get the exhaust gasses up and out quicker.

My stove in the finished part of a basement. Best I can tell, the 8 inch clay thimble was placed into the throat of an existing fireplace which has long since been blocked up. I think getting a 6" liner down to the thimble would be no problem. However, I don't think there is enough room to make the sweeping 90 degree bend into the thimble. There is definitely not room for a Tee.

If I cannot line this flue and get rid of the ridiculous amount of creosote, I am going to abandon the basement wood stove for a gas stove and eventually buy a new wood stove insert for upstairs where I currently have unvented gas logs and a straight shot up and out for a liner.

Took a few pictures by sticking the camera into the thimble and made a diagram. I did a little brushing between pictures. ;-)

I am Looking for some advice and I think I have found the right place.

 

[snowtime]

Yep the over sized chimney is cooling off the smoke to fast and making a good supply of creosote. I am surprised its drafting OK.
Do not give up on a liner. You have to wait for someone who has pulled one 90 but I think someone has. They build a cone for the end and attach a rope to pull the liner. I think if you pulled it down you would be able to pull it through the 90 angle especially since its an over sized flue.

 

[ikessky]

Take another look at the tee for the liners. They are really two parts. You attach one end to the liner and then have someone hold the other end in the hole and wait for the end piece to pass through the clamp. Then you tighten the clamp and it pulls the pieces together to make a tee.

 

[FLINT]

ikessky is exactly right. The stainless T is in 2 pieces. The biggest piece has a hole in the middle of it. This piece clamps on to the bottom of the flexible liner. You drop this piece down from the top of your chimney. Meanwhile - have someone else take the smaller part of the T and slide that in through your thimble. this piece has a long hose clamp looking thing that you drop the big part of your T though and then you turn a screw thing to clamp the 2 pieces together.

I have the EXACT same setup as you - except my chimney isnt 24' high. I had to drill through several layers of brick and block to get into the chimney above the fireplace to install the thimble.

Here is the tricky thing for you to think about. the piece of the T that is going to stick into your thimble is not very long. And depending on how long your thimble is, it may be really tricky to attach your black stove pipe to it.

my thimble is I think over 2' long, and there is no way to screw the pipe to the T AFTER the T has been assembled.

What you might want to think about doing is solidly attach your stove pipe to your stainless T BEFORE you put the 2 pieces of your T together if possible - and have your pipe long enough so that it comes to the outside of the thimble so you can connect an elbow to it, but not too long so that you can't reach in there to turn the screw thing to connect the T together.

I don't know if this makes sense at all. I just know that my setup is very similar to yours, and that I'm not pleased with the way that my pipe connects to the T inside the thimble and I'm always worried about it coming loose sometime, as its a bugger to get in there and work. I have my seams slathered with stove cement which works but eventually does flake off.

hopefully your thimble isn't super long, so that this isn't a huge issue.

Good luck!

 

[FLINT]

I just re-read your post and see that you are thinking of having the liner run within the thimble as well?

I think you actually are supposed to run the black stove pipe to the T, as I described in my last post.

Also, its great that your thimble is 8 inches, that will give you more room - actually, if you connected a 7" black stove pipe to your T, that would give you a little more room to reach your hand in to tighten the T together. The place where you buy the stainless liner will have adapters which go from the stainless T to any size chimney pipe I think. Just a though.

and yes, to your original question, lining that chimney is doable, as I said, I have the exact same situation. I put in the liner 2 years ago, and I get nothing but heat coming out of my flue now - no smoke

 

[workboot]

One of the reasons I gave up on the idea of a tee is because there is no room below the thimble and only a few inches to the right of it. The thimble was apparently cut in right at the point where the original masonry chimney throat was blocked up. I guess I could cap it and lay it on its side...Maybe?

The thimble is about 16-18 inches long. The picture is deceiving.

 

[laynes69]

I'm in the same boat with my chimney, but I have a cleanout below the thimble. I'm probably going to get a longer snout for the tee so the blackpipe can attach at the chimney at the thimble. We need to go around 24" to connect to the tee. I think our chimney is 7x11 or 8x12. Since its exterior I plan on pouring vermiculite down ours to insulate it. I won't have enough room for a blanket. Our thimble was deep due to it going through the thick foundation.

 

[FLINT]

One of the reasons I gave up on the idea of a tee is because there is no room below the thimble and only a few inches to the right of it. The thimble was apparently cut in right at the point where the original masonry chimney throat was blocked up. I guess I could cap it and lay it on its side...Maybe?

The thimble is about 16-18 inches long. The picture is deceiving.

hmmm, so is there no space at all below the thimble? the T doesnt need to stick down far - only a couple of inches

as far as a clean out. what I do is after I run the brush down the liner, I unhook the stovepipe elbow from my horizontal stove pipe which goes into the thimble and then stick the long hose of my shopvac in to the T and suck out whatever i just brushed out of the flu. there is never any more junk than fills up the bottom of the T.

 

[workboot]

I found 9 feet of leftover 6" liner on Craigslist. I think I am going to pick it up to use as a test piece before I shell out for 25' of liner. I have been looking for a diagram of a short body Tee with a removable snout. I am having trouble visualizing how I can attach the snout without getting to the back of the Tee. It looks like there is a band that goes around them.

 

[zzr7ky]

You are correct. Usually a stainless hose clamp.

 

[NH_Wood]

I'm going to have the same setup - 12" masonry caly lined flue - with my new stove being delivered in March. I'll put a liner in if it turns out to be necessary. Question to the OP - is your 12" flue interior or exterior? Mine is a central chimney, running at least ~ 16' inside warm envelope, then ~ 6' through attic, then ~ 3-4 feet about peak of roof. I'm hoping the interior chimney will give a strong enough draft to get the flue gases out of the chimney fast enough to reduce creosote to reasonable levels, but......if yours is interior, perhaps I'll have the same issue. Also, is your flue just bricks, or is there a clay liner up there as well? Cheers!

Edit: Oops - missed your last photo and diagram - I see the clay liner now!

 

[workboot]

Chimney is in the center of the house. Even with the current set up, I have never had problems with draft.