Solar farm question. What do they typically pay per acre to rent your ground long term? Think 30 year contract on 100+ ac. Need a few comparable's .
- Thread starter moresnow
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
There was thread a while ago on Forestry Forum. The value of the land is very dependent on the availability of local power grid with adequate capacity to export the farms output.
wishlist
Minister of Fire
Solar farm was just built near me . It started as 1200 acres and I believe it’s just over 2000 now . I’m in Mid Michigan and the farm was built on very good farmland . It’s a large spread out farm as many landowners would not lease . I do know that they are paying $1000 per acre per year for a 20 year lease .
With no moneys in an escrow to decommission the solar farm when it’s time many landowners said no .
With no moneys in an escrow to decommission the solar farm when it’s time many landowners said no .
Smart folks to skip the lease without a bond or some sort of third party protection to decommission the farm. I am not suggesting that it will be big hazardous waste site at the end of the lease, its highly likely the panels will be putting out power at a reduced rate but the inverters will probably need replacement and most investors want to write the investment off at 20 years. Its questionable if the scrap values cover the disposal cost for the panels but the odds are the inverters will cost to dispose of as E waste. The owners ends up having to pull a whole lot of short galvanized posts out of the ground.
wishlist
Minister of Fire
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
What is farm ground selling for an acre? At 1000$ an acre near our Kansas farm not many would turn that down.
Not being a farmer ,beyond a rock farmer 
, I do not know what impact there would be to a an agricultural field to effectively lay fallow for 20 years. My guess is various plants will move into the niche created by the mix of sun and shade? Then again is this a good thing to let the soil rest?.
Of course the big new market could be creating biochar from various materials and paying farmers to bury the char in their fields to sequester the carbon.
, I do not know what impact there would be to a an agricultural field to effectively lay fallow for 20 years. My guess is various plants will move into the niche created by the mix of sun and shade? Then again is this a good thing to let the soil rest?. Of course the big new market could be creating biochar from various materials and paying farmers to bury the char in their fields to sequester the carbon.
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
Not being a farmer either (but having grown up among small farms in the old country), I don't think biochar is the best approach here - why burn part of the carbon using carbon fuels if you can just bury the whole thing. Biochar is useful for when you need quick changes to the soil. But on a solar farm with land that'll be otherwise unused for a long time, it seems better to go the old "compost route"...? Slow, but for carbon reasons more efficient. (For a high-intensity farm, the fungi etc in compost might be an issue, which could be resolved by charring - but for either fallow land or lower intensity (more stable ecosystem)farming that should not be an issue, from what I've seen on small farms.)
I read (here?) that there are places where they put veggies in between rows of solar panels. Especially in drier climates, I think where limiting sun exposure would be a good thing. (Was it Colorado? I believe @begreen posted this a while back.) I like that a lot. Schedule panel cleaning and predictable maintenance (machine access) for certain after-harvest times a year.
I read (here?) that there are places where they put veggies in between rows of solar panels. Especially in drier climates, I think where limiting sun exposure would be a good thing. (Was it Colorado? I believe @begreen posted this a while back.) I like that a lot. Schedule panel cleaning and predictable maintenance (machine access) for certain after-harvest times a year.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Weed/tree control needs to happen. Without it they would shade the panels. Herbicide is the cheapest way I imagine.
If you want to know about returning ground to production look into what it takes to return conservation reserved program land back to production. There probably is a good bit written about that. And with grain prices up farmers are probably interested too. Guess that you would see reduction in yields for a while. When we have broken out sod it takes 10+ years of farming to make similar yields. All dirt is not equal.
If you want to know about returning ground to production look into what it takes to return conservation reserved program land back to production. There probably is a good bit written about that. And with grain prices up farmers are probably interested too. Guess that you would see reduction in yields for a while. When we have broken out sod it takes 10+ years of farming to make similar yields. All dirt is not equal.
It's a bit of a tangent, but since it was brought up, I was fortunate to work with a doctoral student on biochar several years ago. He taught me a lot about the science of biochar. We did a 3 yr controlled test on biochar that was quite educational. The biochar amended plots on average had a 10-15% increase in yield by weight depending on the crop. Agricultural waste is an issue, so for some, biochar presents a solution.
Biochar's best benefits are long-term. In the short-term, it can be a pH modifier and for remediation but the long-term benefits go on for years if not centuries. Done right, biochar is not burned; it is baked at very specific temperatures, 380°C to 900°C (716 °F to 1,652 °F) with limited oxygen, and the byproducts of baking are turned into syn-gas fuel and soil-enhancing nectar. The microbiological effects of biochar are what are most beneficial. We are just starting to understand the impacts. Biochar can act like a sponge and serve as a habitat for many beneficial soil microorganisms that are known to promote soil and plant health. Testing is showing that an added benefit is reduced methane and nitrous oxide emissions. A soil that is properly amended with biochar will do more than the important role of sequestering carbon. It also becomes a beneficial habitat for fungi hyphae which leads to better soil aggregation and the above-mentioned benefits. Additionally, it can help reduce fertilizer requirements which in turn reduces carbon emissions.
Biochar's best benefits are long-term. In the short-term, it can be a pH modifier and for remediation but the long-term benefits go on for years if not centuries. Done right, biochar is not burned; it is baked at very specific temperatures, 380°C to 900°C (716 °F to 1,652 °F) with limited oxygen, and the byproducts of baking are turned into syn-gas fuel and soil-enhancing nectar. The microbiological effects of biochar are what are most beneficial. We are just starting to understand the impacts. Biochar can act like a sponge and serve as a habitat for many beneficial soil microorganisms that are known to promote soil and plant health. Testing is showing that an added benefit is reduced methane and nitrous oxide emissions. A soil that is properly amended with biochar will do more than the important role of sequestering carbon. It also becomes a beneficial habitat for fungi hyphae which leads to better soil aggregation and the above-mentioned benefits. Additionally, it can help reduce fertilizer requirements which in turn reduces carbon emissions.
Last edited:
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
Ok. Regardless, fuel is used, and part of the stuff goes out the chimney.
Adding biomaterials without doing that, is better, in particular when the land is not in use for growing.
Adding biomaterials without doing that, is better, in particular when the land is not in use for growing.
As it decays there are emissions regardless.
Humboldt University tested biochar on a large scale and found a marked improvement in forest health and productivity. Farming is not about feeding the plants, it's about feeding the soil. Even idle soil benefits from better aggregation. That said, it is just one of the options for good regenerative farming practice.
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
Sure adding biochar to something will improve it. Adding compostable soil improvement will too. The question is what is better. And what is better economically given the investment in biochar being a lot higher.
Compost costs too. Often they are done in tandem. There are lots of methods. Some have worked for millennia. The farmers in the Amazon from 1000 yrs ago were feeding large populations. They relied on biochar to make terra preta (dark earth). That soil is still fertile today. Some farmers simply slash and burn the crop, then till in place. That practice has worked for millennia in India. There are farmers in dry Tibet where chemical inputs are not readily available. They insist that biochar is a necessity for successful growth. This is because another benefit of biochar is better water retention in the soil. This is something that has become very important for farmers in drought-stricken California as the almond farmers are learning. As I said, it's just one tool in the toolbox. If the net result is less purchased fertilizer and healthier soil then it's a win.
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
I'm sorry, but the Amazon example is not true. They add biochar and have to move to another piece of forest and burn it down in one or two years because the soil does not sustain farming anymore. This is well documented.
Other than that, you're convinced. Fine. But you are hammering on something I didn't say. You praise biochar. I admitted it is useful. My point is that it should be compared to natural humus (as in compostable stuff, not compost that is heated - see the top 8" I scraped away when I built my last wood rack and the 1' of dark soil (that is otherwise sand) below it).
It should be the *relative* advantage to just dumping compostable stuff there that matters.
In fact a lot of farmers back in Europe do that: grow a crop purely to plow it under for its nutritional value to the soil.
Other than that, you're convinced. Fine. But you are hammering on something I didn't say. You praise biochar. I admitted it is useful. My point is that it should be compared to natural humus (as in compostable stuff, not compost that is heated - see the top 8" I scraped away when I built my last wood rack and the 1' of dark soil (that is otherwise sand) below it).
It should be the *relative* advantage to just dumping compostable stuff there that matters.
In fact a lot of farmers back in Europe do that: grow a crop purely to plow it under for its nutritional value to the soil.
stoveliker
Minister of Fire
This has gone beyond what my intention was.
All I wanted to say is that you can improve the soil while having solar panels there by adding organic material. And given the long-term no (farming) use of the soil, I see no reason to do biochar (given its cost in $ and fuel) versus what compostable organic matter. Year after year.
We can always do better. But better is the enemy of the good. And better for unused land may very well be the enemy of the good.
All I wanted to say is that you can improve the soil while having solar panels there by adding organic material. And given the long-term no (farming) use of the soil, I see no reason to do biochar (given its cost in $ and fuel) versus what compostable organic matter. Year after year.
We can always do better. But better is the enemy of the good. And better for unused land may very well be the enemy of the good.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
from my perspective a 20 year lease for guaranteed income any land choose to lease I will probably purchase an equivalent amount to farm lease payment could make the payments. And after the 20 years I would hope renew the lease for another 20 years.
My point. Talking land out of production for that amount of time I would write if of as out of production for the foreseeable future and not spend any resources on it while it was being leased. You probably don’t even have access rights anyway.
My point. Talking land out of production for that amount of time I would write if of as out of production for the foreseeable future and not spend any resources on it while it was being leased. You probably don’t even have access rights anyway.
I’d prefer to see forest or farmland. I’d rather see solar farm than McMansion sprawl. One can rip the piers out of the ground and scrap the panels. Nature would reclaim it within 20 years. Check out videos of the Chernobyl area. Nothing was done to tear up the pavement and nature is still taking it back.
Solar farms don’t scare me.
Solar farms don’t scare me.
brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
In Northeast Ohio good farm ground is bringing $12k an acre...and sometimes more! (and those prices were a couple years ago...may be a lot more now...even though milk prices (to the farmer) are in the crapper)
Does that $1000/acre per year rise with inflation? Inflation is knocking on the door of 10% right now, if not in 20 years that lease is essentially free.
wishlist
Minister of Fire
No increase , $1000 acre for 20 years .
I have mixed feelings about the solar farm . I certainly would not want to be surrounded by solar panels . I don’t think anyone says “ I’m looking for a house in the middle of a solar farm “.
One major issue in my mind is what if this company goes bankrupt who is gonna pay to remove this stuff? I doubt the landowner will and I can see these panels wasting away and being an eyesore .
When you see a small 80 acres of nothing but panels and so many post in the ground it’s mind boggling. Underground cables are trenched in also . I’m sure somehow us tax payers will have to pay the bill for removal .
No additional revenue from the solar farms for the county and township either . Land was zoned Ag use and the county changed it to solar ag . Same rate . Not sure if the county did get some money for the road repair . These are primarily all dirt roads and when you see semi’s constantly on them hauling stuff they got tore up bad during the winter months and when frost restrictions were out .
Some basic info
www.energy.gov
One option is agrivoltaics.
farm.vc
www.nrdc.org
Farmer's Guide to Going Solar
If you are an agricultural land owner and are considering your options to go solar, here are some resources to help you decide what’s best for you.
One option is agrivoltaics.
Farm | An introduction to Agrivoltaics
Agrivoltaic systems help maintain soil integrity so land can be used to capture renewable energy while bolstering a more sustainable food system.
farm.vc
Made in the Shade: The Promise of Farming with Solar Panels
Could we integrate solar power and crop cultivation to the benefit of both? It’s called agrivoltaics—and if done right, it may catch on.