Stove Dealer go's under

[dutchmen93]

Warming Trends 2 in southeast WI. out of business, now what happens to my stove warranty? Harmen 1 year old. Also got me for a ton of Uncle Jeds pellets that I had planed on to get to end of the season.

 

[MSmith66]

Call them or Harman and look for the new nearest dealer.

 

[jtp10181]

Searching on here with the Delavan zipcode found this listing
(broken link removed to http://www.harmanstoves.com/dealerLocator/index.asp)

Hearthside
1401 N. Elkhorn
Lake Geneva , WI 53147
262-249-0055

 

[velotocht]

PSJ:

You also wrote "Also got me for a ton of Uncle Jeds pellets that I had planed on to get to end of the season. "

I assume this means you paid for this ton of pellets but had not received these before the business went under, correct?

If this is the case, the outlook is not good. You basically become an 'unsecured creditor' 'cause you already gave them your money and were waiting to receive you purchase. If so, you only get paid after secured creditors (the tax man and the banks) get paid fully. But, if there was enought value left in the business to do that, the business would not have gone under.

If you paid by credit card, they may be able to pull some money back - but probably not. Worth checking, though. Good luck.

RonB

 

[BrotherBart]

I really, really want to see what Harman does with this one.

Their "only your dealer" stuff needs a workout.

 

[woyb]

They'll tell you to contact the closest dealer and HHT will then call them and beg them to take it. BEEN THERE, DONE THAT already.

 

[Lousyweather]

this isnt the first time this has happened......contact harman, and they will likely arrange for another dealer to cover the warrantee claims if you have any. We have had to do it on multiple units when our closest competition went under. Not a big deal.

As for the pellets, well, youre probably our of luck......one reason you should always pickup the pellets you order when you buy them, or have them delivered. If you leave them at the store, youre playing with fire in some cases (excuse the pun)

 

[kinsmanstoves]

If you contact Harman they will speak to the closest dealer and he will fit you in. You might not get priority service but you will get service. I have a dealer close by that went out of business and I do a lot to correct his mistakes and service his stoves.

Eric

 

[Fsappo]

I know that if one the the Regency dealers on either side of me drops the ball on a customer service issue, they will pay our shop a little "extra" for helping out someone elses customer. Harman (HHT) should be just as ambitious.

In regards to your pellets..if you indeed prepay, lesson learned. I wont even let my own customers prepay for pellets at my shop.

 

[smwilliamson]

Classic example of how I manage to stay in business. You think HHT is difficult with their dealer ONLY service attitude, try Travis. Both companies make some of the best product available and yet will travel to the end of the earth to ignore professionals like myself and leave consumers to suffer. I do not know why any respecting dealer would want to take on a warranty claim for $45 when they did not make anything from the sale. I get it, but there has to be a way in which consumers can be reimbursed from the manufacturer for warranty issues while still being able to have a CHOICE on who works on their equipment.

Just my 2cents

 

[dutchmen93]

The only reason I prepaid , the dealer told me that by joining his pellet club and prepaying he could keep pellet prices down. Thought I would save money, lesson hard learned.

 

[Como]

Classic example of how I manage to stay in business. You think HHT is difficult with their dealer ONLY service attitude, try Travis. Both companies make some of the best product available and yet will travel to the end of the earth to ignore professionals like myself and leave consumers to suffer. I do not know why any respecting dealer would want to take on a warranty claim for $45 when they did not make anything from the sale. I get it, but there has to be a way in which consumers can be reimbursed from the manufacturer for warranty issues while still being able to have a CHOICE on who works on their equipment.

Just my 2cents

To arrive at your home and perform work we charge a service call fee of $175.00

So you would do Warranty claims for $45?

 

[smwilliamson]

I would consider it if a manufactuer would promote company as a service option, train my staff and sell parts to me at cost.

 

[Lousyweather]

Classic example of how I manage to stay in business. You think HHT is difficult with their dealer ONLY service attitude, try Travis. Both companies make some of the best product available and yet will travel to the end of the earth to ignore professionals like myself and leave consumers to suffer. I do not know why any respecting dealer would want to take on a warranty claim for $45 when they did not make anything from the sale. I get it, but there has to be a way in which consumers can be reimbursed from the manufacturer for warranty issues while still being able to have a CHOICE on who works on their equipment.

Just my 2cents

To arrive at your home and perform work we charge a service call fee of $175.00

So you would do Warranty claims for $45?

As said oftimes here enough, part of the buying decision made by the consumer (in purchasing a stove) is IF there is any warrantee work to be done, it is done by the dealer they buy the unit from. Frankly, the dealer is supposed to build any losses due to the alow amounts paid to the for warrantee work (by the manufacturer) into the cost of the stove for the original sale of said unit. Now, if the consumer makes the bad choice to buy from a dealer who is less than ideal, they certainly can go to a pellet stove repairperson, such as Scott, to fix their unit, but, AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE. As for the $45 the dealer gets......money losing proposition if you didnt sell the original unit. They dont pay travel time, they dont pay for the shipping of the part from Harman to the dealer (can be considerable), they dont pay for the time spent coordinating the repair with the homeowner, etc. The homeowner alsways has a CHOISE who works on their equipment, but if they make the CHOISE to hire someone on their own dime, then thats a choice made as well. The sticky issue here is the small amount of repairfolks who would take advantage of the situation and inflate the cost of the repair to "stick it to the man", so to speak. So, there has to be some set price for these warrantee repairs, not just carte blanche for some of these guys to inflate numbers. I believe these folks are rare, but they are out there......most likely they dont come here and read this though...(so, dont take offense, Scott! )

When we get asked to work on units we didnt sell, and its pretty common, we will usually charge the manufacturer for the travel time, and if they wont pay it (they usually do), we give the stove owner the option to pay travel time. Believe it or not, its never been an issue. Of course, if its busy, our own customers do take precedence.

As for selling parts, well, I guess there has to be some perks to being a dealer.....we have to inventory 6 figures in inventory of stoves and parts, which shows a commitment on our part, that, frankly, the stove repairperson does not have to show. That should be worth something, or a commitment from the manufacturer to us. We do offer a discount on parts to professional stove repairpersons, since they buy more. Its nothing huge, but it helps.

well, flame on!

 

[smwilliamson]

All good points. If you look at the ROI of for marketing to reach new customers, 45 bucks isn't so bad. Retaining that customer for life tbrough servikce is that tough either.

On my desk right now is a duravent order for 50,000. I parts order I am putting together for Rotom which will be close to 15,000 and other misc orders totalling more than 20,000.

I just service and I'm getting close to six figures in inventory and I do not even stock very many stoves yet. I get more than 100,000 hits on my website a year and service 6 states...still, Travis and HHT won't take me seriously.

Seriously!

 

[Lousyweather]

All good points. If you look at the ROI of for marketing to reach new customers, 45 bucks isn't so bad. Retaining that customer for life tbrough servikce is that tough either.

On my desk right now is a duravent order for 50,000. I parts order I am putting together for Rotom which will be close to 15,000 and other misc orders totalling more than 20,000.

I just service and I'm getting close to six figures in inventory and I do not even stock very many stoves yet. I get more than 100,000 hits on my website a year and service 6 states...still, Travis and HHT won't take me seriously.

Seriously!

the ROI for the dealer selling the stove is a moot point, as they hopefully already have the customer data.....

As far as inventory, a 50k order really isnt commitment to Harman....when I spoke of six figures above, most stove shops have at least that much just in Travis or Harman, let alone other ancillary inventory items such as Duravent, liner, stove pads, etc.......

hits on a website? well, thats a function of a few things, a main one being where you come out in the google drop listing......pornography gets alot of hits as well, but really has nothing to do with Harman or Travis stoves.....(unless Im missing the boat! )


I think its more a function of those two outfits supporting their dealer base.......

 

[smwilliamson]

All good points. If you look at the ROI of for marketing to reach new customers, 45 bucks isn't so bad. Retaining that customer for life tbrough servikce is that tough either.

On my desk right now is a duravent order for 50,000. I parts order I am putting together for Rotom which will be close to 15,000 and other misc orders totalling more than 20,000.

I just service and I'm getting close to six figures in inventory and I do not even stock very many stoves yet. I get more than 100,000 hits on my website a year and service 6 states...still, Travis and HHT won't take me seriously.

Seriously!

the ROI for the dealer selling the stove is a moot point, as they hopefully already have the customer data.....

As far as inventory, a 50k order really isnt commitment to Harman....when I spoke of six figures above, most stove shops have at least that much just in Travis or Harman, let alone other ancillary inventory items such as Duravent, liner, stove pads, etc.......

hits on a website? well, that's a function of a few things, a main one being where you come out in the google drop listing......pornography gets alot of hits as well, but really has nothing to do with Harman or Travis stoves.....(unless Im missing the boat! )


I think its more a function of those two outfits supporting their dealer base.......

Are you trying to start a fight?

ROI - I was speaking of a business's total cost for acquiring a customer. That data doesn't mean squat if you aren't culling through it and "reaching out" for repeat business. Someone has to make those calls, so it's never free. If a stove shop isn't making those call...well, maybe they are going out of business such as the OP.

Pornography?? The simple fact about web hits is that if people weren't looking for it...well, it wouldn't exist. Even the internet experiences supply and demand. My website ranks well in Google because I designed it that way. My traffic is also supported in large part by the massive amounts of people that are looking for what I have to offer.

Yes, the manufacturer needs to support it's dealer base. They need that relationship to float their manufacturing costs and store product closer to the consumer...to that end, if they want to warranty their product as a way of legitimizing their commitment to the consumer...the warranty shouldn't just dissolve because a dealer goes out of business. Nor should dealer X have to take a hit to work on a product sold by dealer Y....

Englander which provides absolutely NO dealer support for labor seems to have no problems dealing with consumers directly concerning warranty parts and offers much of their products less than 1/2 price of the big hearth names. Seems like HHT or Travis shouldn't have that much trouble finding Joe Consumer a qualified outfit to help warranty their product. We will see.

 

[Lousyweather]

I do agree that HHT and Travis do a poor job of qualifying QUALITY dealers.......and even after they have a dealer, they do a poor job of policing poor service after the fact as well.......I think they get so heavily vested in a dealer, they just cant, or wont, do anything when the legitimate complaints arise. Some complaints arent legitimate.....to use a totally unrelated example:

I am currently shopping for a vacation, so I go to tripadvisor.com and look at reviews.....one place I looked at, had MANY great reviews, but there were some glaringly poor reviews.......0 or 1 out of 5 stuff.....one guy's whole vacation was ruined because his shower door wouldnt close properly......REALLY?! Well, I guess I just profiled THAT guy as an A$$.......

Service is defined by the customer, both poor and quality. Some folks are happy with a week's trunaround for a squeek, but others arent happy unless the repairman is at te door knocking when they hang up the phone (even if they are told it will be 1-2 weeks when they call), so, quality service can be a nebulous entity, to be sure.
anyhow,

my poin ton pornography is that you cant directly correlate web hits to business size or success......go ahead....google Dick Cheney......see what comes up......is it all about Dick Cheney? er....no.....pick a topic like breast cancer....google it......guess what you see......so, these folks who own the porno sites would claim success, even when the searcher isnt wanting to search for Dicks or breasts....

ABSOLUTELY agree that dealer X shouldnt take a hit to work on product sold by dealer Y......service after the sale......all too many consumers buy on price alone, not factoring in anything else, then find out after the fact.....how many times has a stove dealer heard "I shoulda bought it from you, but......."?.....then get upset when they dont take priority over a loyal customer?

Englander provides NO money for dealer support because they dont require their dealers to Do warrantee work, simple as that.

 

[Fsappo]

So if you buy an Englander pellet stove, motor breaks next month. They will send you a new motor under warranty but no labor credit? So if a customer cant fix themselves, they contact a local hearth shop and pay them to make the repair?

 

[Lousyweather]

So if you buy an Englander pellet stove, motor breaks next month. They will send you a new motor under warranty but no labor credit? So if a customer cant fix themselves, they contact a local hearth shop and pay them to make the repair?

I believe that is how it works, sir. So, yea, their service policy is fine if the customer wants to, and has the know-how to, replace the part. If he cant, he can hire the local stove shop to do it, or bring in someone who knows how to do it, like Scott. Here is a good question, though. I am sure Scott probably stocks the parts...so, if its still under warrantee, Scott, do you go out, replace it for the customer, and chase the money (for parts and labor) from Englander? I think that when folks buy the Englander units, I guess they also agree to their warrantee policy, which is replacement of parts only? I might be wrong here though. I've heard alot of good reviews from folks about Engander, so it must not be much of an issue, I guess. Maybe Englander customers are more tech savvy than regular pellet stove users? Maybe allowances are made for less expensive units (by the customer), such as Englander? maybe allowances are made (again, by the customer), because they chose to buy the unit from a mass merchandiser rather than a stove shop? (The idea being they paid alot more for the Quad or Harman, so, by golly, it SHOULD come with someone to replace parts? Conundrum for me. I know we have worked on them when folks ask, but we get our regular rate, including travel time, AFTER the customer gets the warranteed parts in hand.

 

[Fsappo]

Look at it this way. Spend $1200 on an Englander, have 2 service calls in 2 years (just for math, most decent stoves have 2 years parts and labor) and pay $150 each at $300 total and lets toss in one Auger motor at $100 bucks that went in the second year. So in two years, you spent less than 2K, even with having to pay for repairs, which is still a little less than a decent stove from your local dealer. The math works for some.

 

[Lousyweather]

Look at it this way. Spend $1200 on an Englander, have 2 service calls in 2 years (just for math, most decent stoves have 2 years parts and labor) and pay $150 each at $300 total and lets toss in one Auger motor at $100 bucks that went in the second year. So in two years, you spent less than 2K, even with having to pay for repairs, which is still a little less than a decent stove from your local dealer. The math works for some.

true, very true. hard to argue with that logic......

Folks reading this, this isnt a "dis" for Englander at all, just ideas.......

 

[webbie]

Let's be Frank (not Franks)

The big makers of stoves are bean counters these days. Of course, many small makers and dealers are also! Maybe we ALL are.

As long as they feel that certain policies or behaviors are rewarding them, they will continue these behaviors. They usually don't have any "big picture" people (don't ask me how I know this) people who would think things out a couple chess moves and understand that supporting independent service people is a MUST in this industry....that is, the Pellet Stove and Gas Stove part.

Put Frankly once again, I suppose that some manufactures make this calculation - not pointing fingers here - it may just be they have not thought out it!
"it's better to screw 10 customers who already bought stoves than to piss off one or two dealers who are going to buy a LOT more stoves".

Of course, some dealers act like Cavemen too......you'd be amazed at how many I have talked to that constantly complain to the VERY TOP about ridiculous stuff.

To add to my fake quote above, there is this one "So what if Jon Dealer goes out of business - plenty of his competitors nearby are ready to jump in".

As you see, neither of those quotes is customer orientated.

I have no doubt that the Pellet Revolution has been held back by the LACK OF focus on the customer, and in fact used my position on a panel at the HeatNE conference last year to say just that. It astounds me that someone buying a product these days - whether $1500 or $4000, has to beg for anything. They should be able to get service close to what they can get for their oil or gas burner - period.

Agree or Disagree?

 

[TLHinCanada]

I'm have spent most of my life working for myself and this would be my observation: Business philosophy has changed over the last fifty years, when I first started it was about long term relationships, now it's about turning over your investment. With the advent of the big box stores there is no longer a one to one relationship with a client. It doesn't matter what the venue is there is no longer a connection between the supplier and the user. Using Englander as an example, one should feel honored that they will speak to a client, and try to help. The majority of larger corporations will ignore the consumer until forced by public pressure or legal action to respond. I have no words of wisdom only this observation.

 

[webbie]

The Big Box store - who sell Englander, etc. - insist that the companies deal with the customer directly in most cases. That is, of course, because the big boxes do not have any customer service at all.

What I don't think you get - in ANY case - is anyone ever coming out to fix your stove.