Stove, Location choice need help.

[WingNutt]

Good Morning everyone,

My name is Josh, I live in Kasilof, Alaska. I have been going through the forum, such a huge wealth of information. Thank you very much.

I am in need of help, I hope someone can assist me. I myself have no experience heating with wood, only as a young boy. I purchased a Geodesic Dome home it was build in 77 I believe. I am moving to this home first of November, I need to make a choice, and quick. There is an existing wood stove and a diesel monitor on the main level, not nearly large enough to do anything worth while. There is no Natural Gas at this location, so that is not a viable back up heating source. I will be using wood as the source to heat the whole home.

I have attached a picture I drew of the floor plan of the home, please take a look it will explain clearly what I am thinking, as my ramblings I’m sure are confusing, lol.





The Home has a basement, about 3/4 below ground. right around 1000 Sq. ft, it is 2 x 6 framing with a poly spray foam for insulation, and well done I will say sprayed the full depth of the 2 x 6. The basement interior was never completed so it is an open floor plan. The main floor is the same, has a few more windows but for the most part very open floor plan, and I can modify structural wall to fit my needs. Above that there is a loft a little under 3/4 of the 1000 sq. ft, it has a banister over looking the main floor.

The house has base board heat in the basement. This is far too expensive to run. My children’s rooms will be in the basement of the house so this area will be used, I will need a heat source down there. Do I have 2 stoves, one in basement and one on main floor?

The Main floor will need a larger stove than the existing for sure, I have a question as to will the stove that I choose for the main floor be able to heat the loft? Can I install an inline fan up higher on the flue pipe to pull some remaining heat out into the loft?

I have looked into a couple options
Stoves I have considered:

Tulikivi (I thought this would be a great choice but a tad bit out of my budget)

WoodStock Progress Hybrid (I think this one fits the bill)
BK Chinook 30
PE Alderlea

The area where I live can easily reach -10 F a couple weeks during the winter, it will at times dip to -20F but is uncommon, it will hover around 0 F to 20 F for the majority of the winter, can those stoves handle the work load? Please feel free to give other recommendations, as I really don’t know what’s best for my situation.

Recap of Questions:

1. I need a Stove for my main floor, and best location for the stove?
2. Will this heat my loft as well, will the heat rise enough to not need another heat source for the loft or will I need a mini stove up there, can I install an inline fan in the flue of the main floor stove to supply heat to the loft?
3. I will need a heat source for the Basement also as it will be used as living space, best location?

Any help with this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for this forum and your time.

Joshua

 

[begreen]

Welcome Joshua. You are considering some good stoves. What make/model is the current stove? If a stove was located in the basement, how would the heat get to the first floor?

 

[fossil]

Howdy and welcome. I wouldn't count on the basement stove effectively heating much more than the basement. A stove on the main floor should have no trouble heating both the main floor and the lofted space. It will do nothing whatever for the basement. Where you've shown the basement stove is ideal, heat-wise, but I'm having a good deal of trouble imagining how you will arrange/install the flue from a stove there. Your two locations shown for a stove on the main floor are probably about equally effective heat-wise for main floor & loft. Here again, I'm wondering about flue configuration. Rick

 

[jeff_t]

Are you finishing the basement? Codes prohibit installation in sleeping rooms. Regardless, I would install an outside air kit. Six inches of sprayed foam is going to be pretty tight.

Chimney placement is a problem where you are considering putting the basement stove. Seems like putting it to the side, where you can enclose the pipe in a corner, or something like that, would make sense. Given the shape of the house, you shouldn't have trouble moving heat around.

If there is already a sound chimney in place, I wouldn't move the stove on the main level.

Realizing that everything in Alaska is expensive, shipping on a PH would be a killer.

 

[WingNutt]

Thank you for the warm welcome.

Begreen - I didnt explain in the first post but I am unsure as to what the existing stove is, also it was removed by prevoius owner because it was not his to sell. As for getting heat from basement to main floor I am unsure, I just figured I would require a stove upstairs and downstairs? Seems a hassle but I dont know what else to do.

Rick - that's why I think I'm stuck with two stoves one on each level to heat both areas? As far as flue, can the placement of stoves I was thinking almost directly one above the other and run the flues side by side out the top?

I am very new to all this, so I have no ego lol,any ideas I'm open to (different configurations, etc)

 

[begreen]

The main reason I asked about the previous stove was to get a rough idea of the size the previous owner used. Dome are pretty heat efficient if built and insulated well. It's good that they paid attention to insulating the basement. That will help. If the heat can easily get from the basement to the first floor then one stove down there "might" work. But from what I'm seeing, that would not happen without a several grates in the first floor in addition to the flue chase.

As far as the main floor location, it might be fine, especially if there is a ceiling fan to assist air circulation. Don't worry about heating the loft. If anything, they tend to overheat, especially if the hot air stratifies without a fan to circulate it. One thing not clear in the loft diagram is what area is open to down below and what is not? Is it the bottom part of the Loft View?

 

[PapaDave]

Welcome to the Hearth Joshua.
I don't have an answer to your predicament, but am wondering about egress for the future basement bedrooms. Not sure about code in Alaska, but basement bedrooms here in Michigan require an easy/quick way out in case of a fire. Not trying to bust your chops, but it's a serious issue to consider when your kids will be down there.

 

[begreen]

How is the basement hot water heated, oil? If so, can you obtain the previous years records for oil deliveries so that you have a better perspective on the cost of heating the basement?

Also, if a stove (or maybe a wood furnace?) is located in the basement, how much of a hassle is it to get wood down there on a daily basis?

PS: What will be the source of wood this season. Modern stoves need dry wood and that is usually hard to find especially this late. Most dealers that sell "seasoned wood" aren't.

 

[Jags]

I like stoves. I like big cast iron suckers. I like watching them....
That said - you may want to consider a wood furnace because of the ability to "duct" the heat from a single source. It is not unusual for a furnace to consume more wood than an EPA stove, but running two stoves is probably going to bring you to a comparable consumption level. Just throwing another idea at ya.

 

[WingNutt]

thanks for all the replies,

There is a ceiling fan in the center top of the loft but not on the main floor.

If by chimney you mean brick? I am not sure of the terms Chimney vs. pipe? There is stove pipe from the existing location out the roof. Is it a good stack, I cant say till I get good look at it, the previous owners really were a "get it to work" type rather than "do it right" type.

From what I was reading, yes I had planned on using external air for the stove, this is better anyway right?

The loft view, the larger section of area where bath is on the left is the loft, the smaller area in the picture on the bottom is the main floor.

I have called WoodStock about the Progress hybrid, they have a couple deals going right now, I believe i can get it to my door for about 3500.00. I really like the idea of the soap stone creating mass. Should I buy a TuliKivi I was quoted 12,000.00 for a 1000 sq. ft model installed, still need structural changes so it will probably be about 14,000 installed, then place a smaller stove in the basement and call it a day? I could get the Tulikivi but it will break me, be eating mac and cheese for a while lol.

In the basement I intended to build rooms around the outer edge of the dome 2 of them and then leave a good sized area just open play area the stove will be in the open area. I am a bit out of the city and code is not a regulatory authority. That being said i do not take lightly the safety issue. There are egress windows in the basement, albeit not to code they are too small but an adult can fit through, this is one of the things I plan to change, larger windows and install a door in the basement.

I had planned to install a wood drop door through the side of the house, to drop wood into the basement from outside.

The Hot water heater is electric (I know, not happy lol). My plan was to install a Propane on demand hot water heater, any ideas?

Seasoned wood will be an issue this year as I have no choice. I figured I will to dry it as well as possible by bringing more inside,this means it will not burn as efficient and create more creosote right? Next year I will get wood for two to three seasons and season it. This will not be too hard to do as we have large amounts of beetle kill and the state wants you to take it.

 

[begreen]

Have you already ordered several cords of wood, split and as dry as possible? If not, a catalytic stove is not going to be happy and any stove is going to be putting out about half the heat it's capable of.

I was thinking of a Caddy catalytic furnace here or maybe a Kuuma Vapor-Fire 100. Is there an outdoor entry for the basement?

The electric basement heaters are ok if they are zoned and on a room by room thermostat. That way the bedrooms could be kept warm at least if the main basement area is cooler.

 

[HollowHill]

Woodstock has a blog for the Progress Hybrid. On it, they have an entry about cat stoves and wet wood, including a video of an experiment they are doing using the Progress with wet wood. According to them, "...catalytic stoves perform much better than non-catalytic stoves at low temperatures, low flow rates, and with wet wood..." Disclaimer - I own a Progress and love it, so far it's heated my drafty, old home well. The last part of the season last year, I was using marginal wood and the Progress performed well in spite of that. Cat and screen needed to be checked regularly, as they tend to clog up quicker with less than optimal wood.

 

[rideau]

Have you already ordered several cords of wood, split and as dry as possible? If not, a catalytic stove is not going to be happy and any stove is going to be putting out about half the heat it's capable of.

I was thinking of a Caddy catalytic furnace here. Is there an outdoor entry for the basement?

The electric basement heaters are ok if they are zoned and on a room by room thermostat. That way the bedrooms could be kept warm at least.

I'm in Southern Ontario; surprisingly to me, my winter temperatures are much like you describe..with relatively high humidity so the cold feels colder. The Progress Hybrid works just fine heating my large, 3 story home. I have a centrally located stove on the 1st floor facing North and good but not great airflow in the home. Have a 4 foot wide stairway going up from outside southern wall toward north, with 4 foot wide four step approaches from both central hall to west and kitchen to east. No doors on rooms on 1st floor. Lots of windows. With moderate loads of hardwood, the first floor is easily kept in the 70's, and depending on how cold it is outdoors the 2nd and 3rd floors will be progressively 3 to 7 degrees each colder than the first floor. I would expect your smaller home to be easily heated by the PH. It's a beautiful, well built stove and puts out a heat that feels like sunlight.
Talk with Woodstock about the wet wood/catalyst issue, as they did some testing this year running the stove with wet wood.
We use our bedrooms primarily for sleeping. I have baseboard electric heat, but did not use it once last year. I put an extra piece of soapstone for each bed on top of the progress hybrid during the day: it absorbs and radiates heat during the day, and at night each piece is wrapped in a beach towel and placed in the bottom of the bed between covers about ten minutes before bedtime. Makes the beds toasty warm. And the rooms are a nice sleeping temperature.
I have a full size 46 x 32 unfinished basement, insulated concrete floor, uninsulated concrete block construction side walls, 6 foot underground, 2 foot above ground, 2 sets Bilko doors for entry, 4 small windows (fixed), no direct connection to house above. Basement stays cool = feels like it's airconditioned in summer, does not freeze in winter..and no rusting of tools, so it stays pretty dry and steady in temp..no insulation between basement and 1st floor, but serious floor = 3/4 inch topped by 5/8 inch plywood topped by 1 inch wide board oak, topped by rugs (not carpeting). Your insulated basement may actually stay pretty comfortable. I'd ask the previous owners. If your children are going to use their rooms primarily for sleeping and perhaps an hour or two of studying, I'd give some serious thought to whether it would pay to put a stove in the basement. A few hours of electric heat a day may be all you need....Also, I have electric hot water heaters. Last year I put them on an inline Intertherm timer, and have the timer set to go on twice a day for a few hours for the times we use hot water. Have saved a bundle in electricity and find I have plenty of hot water. If your power is reliable it may be a practical and less expensive option for you as well.
I certainly do not believe you need anything bigger than a PH to heat your home.

 

[WingNutt]

I only recently bought the house and didn't expect it, so I was unprepared for this. I have not purchased wood, I will get some ordered as suggested above.

Rideau - Thank you for the response, sounds like the way to go, very informative. Our winter sounds the same as yours but ours is a bit more on the dry side. I really like your extra soap stone Idea, genius.

I work a 2 week on 2 week off schedule, I work in a remote location for those 2 weeks. So I worry much of the time to make sure the wife doesnt have any problems, so I usually do over kill to make sure she has no worries. I am thinking I will go with the Progress Hybrid on the main floor. And as Begreen suggested the Caddy Catalytic Furnace wood and oil - downstairs (there is the over kill in me, lol). For really just a back up on the super cold days, just incase. The only thing I do not like about the Wood furnaces is the reliance on electric, but it will have to do.

Also with the PH, would it be feasible to make two cut outs in the main level floor in a corner opposite the stairwell, take 6" to 8" stove pipe connect a fan and suck from the basement into the main floor creating a draft through the stairwell of the basement to get heat circulating downstairs?

Im going to pull the trigger on the PH now as there is a waiting list and will not ship until late October. I appreciate all the help. All great responses. If anyone has any other suggestions, please dont hesitate. Once I get into the house and test it all out I will update my results.

Thanks again to everyone.
Joshua

 

[begreen]

If you got the wood furnace there would be no need for a main floor stove unless you just wanted it for ambiance and backup. Circulating heat downward is rarely very successful. Hot air wants to rise.

If you are going for the PH, you would be better off getting a smaller cat stove for the basement like the Keystone and running a pair of flues. The challenge is going to be chasing the basement flue up through the first floor. This should have some thought and planning so that is looks intentional, but is safe and functional. Perhaps a central hearth with a stone veneer finish? How will this weight be supported? That may require extending this theme underneath in the basement.

 

[fox9988]

Just a thought, probably not code compliant........Progressive Hybrid in the basement location shown. Chimney chase starting from the basement ceiling, running up to the loft ceiling. Chase open around basement ceiling with hot air drawn up through the chase, by fans located in the chase-on the first floor level. Fans could even be thermosaticlly controled. Pics always help.

 

[WingNutt]

I contacted WoodStock, waiting on some answers. I can easily build structural support where ever I place the stove. I like your idea Begreen of making some eye candy of the structural support, I think I will proceed in the fashion. I have placed an order for the PH, I will be moving in November 1st. I will get stove installed and testing how it heats the home, depending on how it works I have thought of a few options for the basement, a wall mount monitor (oil, diesel, propane which ever fuel source is more economical) or a smaller wood stove we will see. At this point its a wait and see until I get in and install the stove. I will consult a heating contractor for the Flue since I have no idea, it is beyond my knowledge and I want it done right. I appreciate everyones help and I will be back with updates, pictures of the install and more questions lol.

Thank you
Joshua

 

[begreen]

Take pictures of the flue ahead of time if possible and post them here. Hopefully the local contractor will be good, but if they are like some rural locals, it can be a mixed bag.