Tarm 3rd Week of Use:Notes and Improvements

[Birdman]

Things are much better with the Tarm. Like anything in life( well most things ) the more you do it... the better you get at it.

1.I have achieved loading it with minimal smoke spillage into the basement.

2. I have learned to clean out the ash from the bottom of the Tarm. This was a lesson learned. At first.. I would turn the fan off.. open the bottom door... open the bypass damper... and clean it out. then turn on the fan. This was bad. It would make a huge pufff of smoke and sound like it was going to blow off my flue pipe. Now I have learned the proper steps. Step 1. open bypass door. Step 2. keep the fan on... or turn it on. Step 3. open bottom door gently. Step 4. clean out ash. Step 5. close bottom door. NO SMOKE.

3. I had condensation coming off of the flue pipe... it has decreased alot... not sure why. Still doing it.. which is not good. Outdoor SS pipe for chimney could be the reason? I am using 24 gauge black stove pipe on the inside? It only happens during idle when the pipe cools a bit.

4. I am getting good gasifification. Very good blue-white flame at times... other times it is orange. Overall not bad... but I know I can improve as the wood I am burning is not truly real dry. I throw in 2 pieces of real dry pine and 6-9 pieces of maple... ( cut split covered for 8 months).

5. My zones are beginning to even out after some adjusting of things. I still would like either hotter water going to the baseboard... or more baseboard. I can only tell the temp at the oiler boiler as I have it hooked up in series and this is the only temp gauge. It routinely reads between 130-160. Often reads 130 with 3 zones going at the same time. Not sure how to remedy this.

6. I think I read somewhere not to let the ash get too high in the upper burn chamber... on the sides? LIke not over 2 inches? How do people clean this out? Do they just scoop it out? Or push it down the slot and clean it out fom the bottom?

7. I need to improve heat loss of my house... it makes no sense to try to heat this house up.. when I should also be working on th eother end of the equation.. and prevent heat loss. This will allow me to burn less wood. Even though it is a heat loss pig riight now.. I am predicting using 4-5 cord of maple and 1 cord of pine at my current burn rate. At 70 degrees for house and hot water

 

[Bad Wolf]

Birdman, Which TARM do you have? I forget, do you have storage? I'm on my second week with a TARM Excel 2000 and 1200 gallons of storage.

Ashes I clean out every third day or so. I have been just shoveling them into a metal ash box, then going down below and leaning out the secondary chamber. Actually I clean out the secondary chamber daily. Not going too crazy cleaning it out since I'm just going to build another fire.
I haven't been seeing any condensation; don't know where that would be coming from.
My boiler is pretty consistently at 160 to 185. I have noticed when all four zones are calling for heat the poor guy at the end is getting only lukewarm water at best. I'm going to play with the programming of my setback thermostats so the one on the end comes on earlier and then drops down so I’ve only got two calling for heat at any one time.

Tightening up the house is my Thanksgiving vacation project. No sense in generating all that heat then letting it slip out through windows and cracks. I’ve also got to insulate a lot of the pipes, they do a great job of heating the basement which doesn’t need it, and I’m sure its stealing heat from the zones.

Enjoy the warmth!!

Greg H
TARM Excel 2000
1200 gallons storage
6 solar panels (under construction)

 

[Birdman]

I have the Solo Plus 40. No storage. I will have storage next year.. i hope. My tarm does stay in the 160-185 range. However it is in series and I look at the temp on the oil boiler gauge and it is low when i use more than 2 zones at a time. I don't like this... because when it is 12 outside.. like it was last week at night.... i need at least 3 zones to put out enough heat. When 3 zones are calliing the return temp is too cool and I believe it mixes back in and then the output temp going back to the zones is too low. I adjusted the mixing valve?.. it got better.. but not yet good enough. Anyone have ideas?

 

[TC113]

Birdman, I have a Solo 60 and I have many of the same issues. I've been burning for 3 weeks and I too am learning as I go. I was getting alot of black creosote dripping from the flue in the beginning, but it seems to getting better now.

 

[VtRv]

I'm on my second week with my Tarm 30. Everything seems to be working well and I'm keeping the boiler temp between 170 an 185 degrees. I was having trouble with the pressure getting too high with my storage tank but I accidently hit one of the relief valves the other day and a few gallons of water came out of the storage tank before I saw it. Since then my pressure has been between 10 and 15 psi which is where the instructions say is should be. I clean the ashes out of the bottom champer every 3 days or so, I haven't cleaned any out of the wood box as most of them seem to burn up and fall into the lower chamber. I am only getting a flue temp of 400 or so which baffles me a little. I think my wood is dry has been running around 15%.

 

[slowzuki]

Why does 400 F baffle you? It should be nice and low. This isn't a wood stove. I'm hoping to get around 300 or so.

I'm on my second week with my Tarm 30. Everything seems to be working well and I'm keeping the boiler temp between 170 an 185 degrees. I was having trouble with the pressure getting too high with my storage tank but I accidently hit one of the relief valves the other day and a few gallons of water came out of the storage tank before I saw it. Since then my pressure has been between 10 and 15 psi which is where the instructions say is should be. I clean the ashes out of the bottom champer every 3 days or so, I haven't cleaned any out of the wood box as most of them seem to burn up and fall into the lower chamber. I am only getting a flue temp of 400 or so which baffles me a little. I think my wood is dry has been running around 15%.

 

[VtRv]

The reason I was worried about the flue temp is that the manual said it should run around 600 degrees and I've seen posts on here saying that lower flue temperatures is a sign that the wood isn't dry enough.

 

[slowzuki]

I've not kept close tabs on the Tarm threads, but 600 would seem high. I know on my boiler once you start getting 400 F + you are supposed to pull the turbulators and brush the tubes.

 

[jebatty]

Tarm: If the flue probe temp is 400-500, and you have good gasification, I conclude you are operating the boiler very efficiently. I know the manual says 600, and there is nothing wrong with that.

My assumption is that to achieve the rated output of the boiler, a flue temp (also assume clean hx tubes) of 600 may be required. If your system has a high heat demand, you may need to operate into the 500-700 flue temp range to get enough heat, and/or add turbulators (will drop flue temp about 100 for equivalent heat output).

Be sure to clean the hx tubes regularly, good indicator is to see rising flue temp with other conditions unchanged.

 

[beantaxi]

Hi to all...just had Tarm Solo 40 installed (Professionally.....cost plenty 24K ...With 880gal storage system from Tarm) ....I am not a handy guy like a lot of you posting on this site hence the cost was something we have to bear for my lack of expertise....had a house building nightmare with a contractor ..ten years in the courts in NYS ....only to find out that justice is not! ..the contractor was a thief and I could prove it, but the system allows for these bad guys to get away with just about anything. The Appellate Division does not even read the case material, and I can prove that also! If anyone is interested check out: www.constructionmismanagement.org ... anyway on to the TARM issues....just started up without storage to try this thing out...have pretty good wood ....dried more than 6 months good hardwoods, maple, cherry etc....had real problem getting this thing to hold boiler temps of over 150 and falling quickly under 120 ....some times dropping to 105 - 110 by AM or within a few hours even.........was concerned about low temp fires so did not load box too high about half to two thirds once flue had reached 400 and rising opened and added the half to two thirds load. Always had to poke restoke to keep temps where they should be in another hour same thing fire down low ...after three days or ten or so burn cycles...I was getting better results somewhat 175 and over boiler temps, but have had trouble keeping flue temps above 400 on consistent basis...using max 6" quarter split wood..pretty chunky ...then saw posts saying use smaller splits....when using smaller splits 2-4 " it seemed to work better ....but be prepared to spend time splitting down wood that would easily burn in the old wood stoves..so I am kind of disappointed....need some one to be able to tell me the storage tank is worth having....How long does it take to charge 880 gal tanks to 150-175 ....I have had trouble so far keeping boiler over 150 on ave without thinking about trying to charge 880 gallons...anyone got any thoughts on this. also how far away can storage tank be from boiler and be as efficient as possible? the tank the installer is quoting is 75" by 75" by 54" high.....seems huge...and I am very concerned about charging that amount of water......is anyone burning and really getting 8 hr burn times? I have mostly gotten 3-4 hrs .....(with good flue temps ave between 300-400 .....) sorry for all of the issues in one here...I'll try to post separately in the future...THANKS!!

 

[jebatty]

then saw posts saying use smaller splits....when using smaller splits it seemed to work better ....but be prepared to spend time splitting down wood that would easily burn in the old woodstoves..so I am kind of dissapointed....

A little bit of a bummer, but things end up kind of like you get used to. I had started with big rounds and splits at 24", cut for my old OWB. Had to cut back to 18" (much better than 20") and re-split. Now all new is done right at the start. Dry is important, and I recommend two summers of drying if you can, and certainly one full summer.

need some one to be able to tell me the storage tank is worth having....How long does it take to charge 880 gal tanks to 150-175 ....

I have the Solo 40 and 1000 gal LP tank storage; previously about 800 gal open storage. I had no trouble heating the 800 up to 150+ and also no trouble heating the 1000 up to 150+. To heat top of tank 130 to 150 on the 1000 gal tank takes about, if no other heat draw, you should be able to do with one load of wood, or a little more at most. Definitely worth it, IMO.

I have had trouble so far keeping boiler over 150 on ave without thinking about trying to charge 880 gallons...

Something is not right. Do you have the Termovar? What is your return temp to the boiler? How high is your flue?

Your flue temps are low. You should have no trouble maintaining flue temps in the 400-600 range. Issues and things to check: wet wood; draft fan damper closed too much and not getting enough air; try setting secondary burn lever in middle or between middle and all the way to the right (more primary air for wetter wood); poor chimney draft. Your Tarm should be purring along with boiler output in the 170 and higher range (180-190 is very reasonable) while charging tank and/or feeding zones. The Termovar should be recycling boiler output to maintain return water temp close to 160, and certainly not less than 140, and at this return temp boiler should easily maintain 180+ output. Adjust Termovar balance valve if necessary (open more to recycle more water directly back to boiler, close more to recycle less).

also how far away can storage tank be from boiler and be as efficient as possible? the tank the installer is quoting is 75” by 75” by 54” high.....seems huge...and I am very concerned about charging that amount of water......

Others will have to provide advice on this. Not an issue for me. A 75 x 75 x 54 round tank is about 1000 gal; square tank is about 1500 gallons. Solo 40 should have no trouble heating either IMO.

is anyone burning and rewally getting 8 hr burn times? I have mostly gotten 3-4 hrs .....(with good flue temps ave between 300-400 .....)

4-6 hours of good burn is about my maximum, with the longer burns occurring when there is some boiler idle time; flue temps 400-525 with clean hx tubes.

 

[beantaxi]

I believe that there are three termovars in this install...not sure how to check return water temps....how do you do this..sorry I am a beancounter not a heating guy....am about to re fire and hope that maybe the brekin period and proper loading issues were the reasons for low flue /boiler temps...will update this soon...if I can get what you state out of storage...charging to 150 with one load of wood I would be very happy.....I will be curious to see how long it takes just to bring boiler from 70 to 150 from cold start..anyone have that info on what that should be?....chimney set up is black pipe out of back to triple stainless thimble and outside chimney 18 feet outside pipe....all triple wall except inside transition.....this is a pressurized install...15lbs on gauge has been steady....will follow up..THANK YOU JIM!

 

[jebatty]

I will be curious to see how long it takes just to bring boiler from 70 to 150 from cold start.

Did that yesterday on my Tarm (60-160), cold start, took about 1 hour. I was not paying much attention, so the time is not exact.

 

[MrEd]

had real problem getting this thing to hold boiler temps of over 150

Are you using radiant heat? If my boiler was running at 150 degrees, I don't think I could get much usable heat out of my system at all - definitely seems low to me.

At 170 degrees mine starts to perform, but the house doesn't really warm up until I am running at about 185 or more.

 

[beantaxi]

Have radiant floor heat in three floors, and that is tempered down to 130-140 anyway so if I could average 150 boiler temps I would be more than happy, until we get storage installed, ...am finally making some progress on temps both flue and boiler....started cold at 1245 pm today, had boiler to 150 by 230 ready to roll...then up to 175 even under load...secondary air adj is now good...getting blueish yellow flame in gas chamber using smaller splits quarters split down to 2- 4 inches with a round larger piece in the middle top of the pile.seems to be working much better, now have lots of splitting to do though...i wish I had known about the smaller splits being needed....takes a good hour to split down a days worth of quartered splits to smaller 2-4 inch pieces....still attempting other load scenarios ...like a few quartered 5-6 inch pieces with rounded sides down, or maybe three quartered pieces with center one angle up round down and both sides fitted tight against them...maybe break in was an additional reason that I had problems reaching temperature....wood being dried well since July 1 is working fine......I guess longer might be better but at first I thought not reaching temps might be due to non dry enough wood....that seems not to be the case....looking like this will work...question for anyone....cleaning out ashes...book gives no deatailed instruction on ash removal....can boiler be fired ...say down to coals and ash still be removed without total shut down? Does the lower refractory brick need to be removed to clean out thoroughly or do you just reach around the edges of it with the poker thingy........appears very hard to clean well with the refractory in the lower chamber left in place?? Does anyone agree with setting low limit to 60 Centigrade (without storage) and regarding the bridging issues I see people saying reducing fan speeds help.....the fan seems to go off on my unit if I move it counter clockwise....does not just "slow" down..anyone know why? Thanks to all who give their time to this forum it is a real mental safety net! Thought I would never get this stuff figured out and probably would not without all of your help!

 

[jebatty]

You probably have noticed, but a real key to gasification is a good bed of coals on the bottom of the firebox, but not completely blocking the nozzle. On your wood loading, at least on a cold start, keep small pieces on the bottom, which quickly will turn to coals. Larger (and a little wetter) stuff can go on top of a bottom load of smaller stuff and usually burn OK, so you may not have to re-split everything.

question for anyone....cleaning out ashes...book gives no deatailed instruction on ash removal....can boiler be fired ...say down to coals and ash still be removed without total shut down? Does the lower refractory brick need to be removed to clean out thoroughly or do you just reach around the edges of it with the poker thingy........appears very hard to clean well with the refractory in the lower chamber left in place??

Yes -- knock some ashes through the nozzle into the bottom chamber, and then use the poker thingy to pull the ashes and coals out into a metal ash container. The "U" shaped gasification tunnel I clean fairly well, but only with the poker. Then I take 3 pulls on each side of the nozzle on the bottom refractory. The bottom doesn't need to be cleaned especially well, just don't let too much ash accumulate so as to impede the exhaust flow to the hx tubes. It's easy to do, no need to try to remove the tunnel. Also be sure to place the poker all the way to the rear when you start to pull ashes forward. That will prevent ash accumulation under the hx tubes. I somewhat clean ashes whenever they seem to accumulate enough to maybe impact the fire.

Also remember to clean the hx tubes. I've been cleaning mine about every two weeks, but when you notice the flue probe thermometer starting to rise above "normal," that's a good sign that brushing the hx tubes is in order.

Does anyone agree with setting low limit to 60 Centigrade (without storage) and regarding the bridging issues I see people saying reducing fan speeds help.....the fan seems to go off on my unit if I move it counter clockwise....does not just “slow” down..anyone know why?

I agree on 60C (140F) if no storage. This is the draft fan low limit setting, and when the boiler water cools to 140, the draft fan shuts down. The fire will be well burned out by this time and the boiler is not producing anymore heat.

My Tarm has no control to reduce the fan speed, and logically I cannot find a good reason why reducing the draft fan speed would aid in reducing bridging. To me a good wood load procedure, small splits, like described above, just about eliminates bridging.

You have two controls which affect the draft fan. On my Tarm the control to be set at 60C is under the top cover and is part of the internal control mechanism. This is the fan low limit control. The knob on the front control panel is the high limit control and shuts the fan down when the boiler water reaches about 190F (if turned all the way up) and about 180F if turned down to the stop. I always leave the high limit set all the way up. I would set this at the point where you want maximum boiler hot water to be and then leave the high limit control setting alone. There is no reason to adjust this after you have the setting you want.

 

[beantaxi]

Thanks Jim....very helpful info ...I don't really see how you can get under the HX to clean with the nozzle trough only having a few inches on either side ...that seems to limit the reach directly behind the trough and under the middle of the Hx tubes.......but I will try exactly as you say....also re the fire loading, smalls at the bottom, mediums to 4" to larges 6" at top ....what are you burning size and shape...I have mostly 6: thick quarter rounds and have split them down by thirds....the smalls are good the 6" pieces don't seem to burn all that well...mostly good maple and cherry and beach...anyway just wondering what shapes and sizes you use...as uou seem to very happy with your burning times and temps....Thanks, again!

 

[Brialin]

I have no trouble heating 1000 gallons of water from 120 to 180 in about 8 hours. I still have plenty of domestic hot water at 120 degrees. All my wood is kept out of the weather. Green or wet wood will not burn very well at all. I will be lowering the temperature in the tank to 170 degrees once I replace the liner which is 7 years old. My error using too hot water it just cooked the rubber liner.

 

[garysec]

I am on my 2nd week of burning with the Tarm Solo 30 and so far not experiencing to many issues that some others have had but have had some.

Usually have no trouble maintaining 175 plus degrees and a flue temps 5-600 when fan is running. I was running around 188 degrees but twice I woke up to having to reset my fan because it kicked off and was concerned I was overheating but not sure if that's the case or not. I have been running smaller fires, probably not as efficient but if I am home don't mind checking the fire every few hours. Overnight I try to put in just enough to get thru the night and been pretty lucky so far, wake up to enough coals to throw a little kindling in (cedar splits and small dry pine splits) put a few hardwood splits on top and close her back up. Don't have much of a coal base though so may not be gassifing as good as it could but looks and sounds like a blaring oil fire in the bottom box when firing.

I have noticed times when I have a little stickyness feeling in my damper arm if it has idled a while. Does this mean I need to clean my HX Tubes? I have a pretty even thin coat of creosote in my fire box with flaky creosote close to the bottom of the firebox.

My fire hasn't been out since I started it on the 19th of Dec. but thinking I should let it go out to check the flue and HX unless there is an easy way to know when it needs to be done.

Thanks for this website and any suggestions/comments.
Gary

 

[jebatty]

I was running around 188 degrees but twice I woke up to having to reset my fan because it kicked off and was concerned I was overheating but not sure if that’s the case or not.

Based on this description, it sounds that the draft fan is shut off at about 190 because the high limit control is kicking in to shut down the fire. It will kick back in at about 180 to restart the fire.

I have noticed times when I have a little stickyness feeling in my damper arm if it has idled a while. Does this mean I need to clean my HX Tubes?

Two separate issues. When the fire has burned out and the stove has cooled down pretty well, remove the back cover and take off the cover over the hx tubes (4 wing nuts). Brush your hx tubes well. About every two weeks, more or less, this would be good practice.

You also then can inspect the damper. If you pull the hairpin holding the lever onto the damper, you can lift the damper off and then see whether you have any more than a little creosote that may be causing the sticky feeling. If so, just scrape it. Creosote in the firebox is normal, and unless you are idling a lot with wet wood, I can't see why it would ever cause a problem. Be sure to burn only dry wood.

 

[garysec]

Thanks Jim, this is an other argument to getting storage, (a time when the fire isn't needed), so you can clean the boiler. I'll try to bring myself to letting the fire go out this weekend and go thru the cleaning process if for no other reason but to see how it is doing.
As far as the fan kicking off it wasn't going to come back on I don't believe without hitting the reset button, water was down to about 150 and with the new model anyway if it goes off for a overheat or fireout out you need to hit a reset button before it will start again. I think I'm getting better (or just lucky) at figuring out how much wood to put in and when to get me to the next time with the outside temps bouncing up and down.
Not sure I'm taking advantage of the best effiencies but it seems to be working. Last night at 10 pm when I went to bed, fire was down to coals, added 4 mid size chunks, (warm last night mid 20's) no heat demand because 71 in the house and we set it back to 68 at night. At 5 am the thermostat goes back up to 70, at 6 am (when I got up), I had coals, boiler at about 165, added a few small pieces and in 1/2 hour had the house back to 70, and water temp 185. Added wood before I left for work and hopefully fine till I get home.
I LOVE my Tarm, (just ask my wife)..

 

[lawandorder]

Garysec,

Glad to see things are getting better. I am still learning after a month of use. One thing I did learn was that it was a lot better (at least for me) to set my thermostats at a comfortable level and just leave them there. I have all of the house set at 69 or 70 and I just leave it there. I sometimes push the living room zones up to 71 while I am at home with the kids watching tv etc....Then I bring them down to 69 before bed. House is toasty in the AM. FIre is out but still enough coals to get going but I load up the firebox for the night at around 11P. Just my .02. I wasted a lot of money on programmable thermostats in the fall. I am now just putting back the original style. good luck

 

[jebatty]

If you are over-heating, what's the capacity of your over-heat loop? do you have the Automag or similar valve installed? Is your over-heat loop working? Good idea to give it an intentional over-heat to determine whether you are getting the protection you need.

 

[garysec]

If you are over-heating, what’s the capacity of your over-heat loop? do you have the Automag or similar valve installed? Is your over-heat loop working? Good idea to give it an intentional over-heat to determine whether you are getting the protection you need.
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My over-heat loop is currently my main heat zone. I don't remember off the top of my head what that control is set at 200 or 210, I'll have to check tonight. An intentional over-heat is a good idea then I can find out at what temp the fan cut-off overload switch is working at also. That way I can set the Automag or whatever it is I have below that then my over-heat loop should come on before the fan kill switch goes off. This site sure makes life better...

 

[jebatty]

Your main heat zone, if it is to work, will need to be a gravity fed loop to work without a circ and without a check valve or other device which would prevent free gravity flow. You'll have to cut power to the boiler, all circs, etc. to mimic a power outage, and you'll want to do this at high burn and at or just before the temp when the over-heat circuit on the boiler would trip. That simulates a worst case scenario and will give you the best indication of the sizing and operation of your overheat loop.