The BIG Tank has landed

[pybyr]

today, my big tank arrived courtesy of a friendly neighbor up the road who, via his business, had the ability to receive the shipment while I was taking my dad to cataract surgery.

[ thanks, Steve! - and if anyone needs nice solid hardwood furniture, Steve does some great stuff at www.asleepinthewoods.com -- and he's already a wood burner and is probably soon to be a wood-gasifier and/ or storage type ]

So, although it still has to be carried into the cellar and have the panels bolted together, here's an initial photo; from initial examination, the fabrication and welding looks GREAT

 

[kabbott]

Man that looks like its gonna be nice.
someone has a lot of bolts to tighten.get ta wrenchin.

My wife would much rather have a fine cherry wardrobe from the link though.

 

[pybyr]

Man that looks like its gonna be nice.
someone has a lot of bolts to tighten.get ta wrenchin.

My wife would much rather have a fine cherry wardrobe from the link though.

wrenchin-wise, that's where my impact wrench, on the lowest torque setting, and with the compressor regulator turned down, so as to not over-do-anything, will come in very handy. Another deployment of "Trevor's Maxim" that acquisitions of helpful tools lead to newer and bigger projects, which leads to acquisitions of bigger and better tools... and repeat...

First I'll need to set up the platform of 8" used polyiso board that it will be built on/ sit on, then assemble, then box around it with lots more used polyiso.

And regarding Steve's furniture, it's top-flight.

 

[pybyr]

off the truck- courtesy of my friend's 6 foot-8 strapping 22 year old son Seth

 

[pybyr]

here goes another panel towards the bulkhead into the cellar- thanks again, Seth!

 

[pybyr]

corners of some of the panels- others are flat

 

[pybyr]

A bunch more of the modular panels leaning up against my hopefully-soon-obsolete (or at least just-in-case-only) 275 gallon oil tank

 

[pybyr]

showing some fittings and welds for the drain (1" NPT) and one of the places where I plan to tie in the connections for the plate HX (2" NPT, probably bigger than I will need, but the cost increase was slight to do 2" now, whereas it'd be huge to change later if I'd done something too small)

 

[pybyr]

nice welding works-personship by the folks that fabricated this for me

 

[pybyr]

one last comment for the evening now that I have put out some more photos to get fellow gear & metal-heads droolin'

I am not one to personally believe in any literal form of divine intervention- I think it'd be presumptuous for me to think that any higher power is focusing only on, or pulling strings for, me--

--but I do have to remark in gratitude at my incredible combination of seemingly too good to be true good fortune in how this thing managed to arrive.

First, the company that fabricated it for me, did so on a really and SUPER helpful and exceptionally decent basis, 'cause even though this was outside their norms (they usually do far larger projects), they seemed to think it was a worthwhile and interesting project.

then, after it was fully fabricated, they realized that it'd be prohibitively costly to ship something this heavy (about 1200 pounds on a 4 x 10 foot pallet) via normal means, halfway across the continent.

so that company helped me find a solution that made it, well, not cheap, but very fair and feasible

but then, to make that shipping option fly, it had to go to a commercial address, which isn't me, because I dwell in a glorified cubicle by day to pay the bills, and I do this other stuff by night and weekend to keep my sanity and indulge my secret desire to be a mad scientist &/or bad guy for a good cause-

So then, my friendly neighbor up the road, Steve the furniture builder- www.asleepinthewoods.com stops by on his bicycle because he hears that I am installing a gasifier + storage, and he might want to do that too. And, long story a bit shorter, Steve offers to receive the shipment at his business.

Steve then trucks it down here on his 25 year old Dodge flatbed, but then we realize that since I lack a proper chain fall, it was going to be dicey to unload it all by hoisting the pallet using my commercial-grade come-along, at least without some risk of something letting go and landing on me. Anxiety and disappointment are rising for me.

And then my friend's 22 year old son and his friend stop by, out of the blue, to see how things are going on some apple cider wine that I'd been making for them with some cider made with his parents' antique cider press, from a bunch of apples from their old farm and my old farm. We back the flatbed up to my cellar hatch. these two big strong young guys, lacking my back trouble, make quick work of taking the tank, panel by panel, into my cellar- without breaking a sweat. I decant the 5 gallon jug of wine, which turned out nice, even though I've been paying little attention to it due to "boiler distraction" and the darn day job. They go on their way, happy as heck, with a big jug of wine, to go press this years apples...

Now that the tank pieces are down there in my cellar, it won't be hard to get to bolting them together, starting soon. The air wrench will be valued helper in spinning all those nuts!

And this thing-actually- won't end up costing me significantly more than an STSS liner-type one of the same gallonage, although that's partly also because, being the artful scrounger that I am, I already have a barn attic full of used-but clean 4 inch polyiso board to do the insulating around this stainless monster. And unlike any of the liner-type tanks where you're gambling above 170F, the Buna-N and Sikkens sealer at the seams can take 200+ continuous and temporary spikes of 240+, so I can "put the wood to it" as locals here say, and not wonder if I'll wake up to a blown liner.

Call it what you want, in terms of how all that came together, I'm sure counting my blessings

 

[jebatty]

I hope someone in Brazil saw the butterfly flap its wings about 8 months ago.

 

[pybyr]

I hope someone in Brazil saw the butterfly flap its wings about 8 months ago.

it was actually seeing a Garn less than a mile down the road at a a "sugar on snow" party last March,

and suddenly "getting it" (on a direct and complete, not abstract and disconnected level) on what gasification and storage meant in terms of going from stone age to space age in trying to heat, efficiently and comfortably with wood.

 

[pybyr]

After various things that sidetracked my storage portion of the project and made it take longer than originally hoped, I just put some wire nuts in place (to turn on desired pumps) and commenced sending heat from the Econoburn, through the 5x12x70 plate heat exchanger, into the fully assembled tank.

No measurements yet, but the heat is flowing in the exact directions intended, with no apparent leaks; the pipes into the top of the tank are very hot to the touch, so I seem to be getting good heat transfer

Tank is not insulated yet-- I want to get it up to temp a few and make sure everything operates happily before enshrouding it in insulation.

 

[Sawyer]

After various things that sidetracked my storage portion of the project and made it take longer than originally hoped, I just put some wire nuts in place (to turn on desired pumps) and commenced sending heat from the Econoburn, through the 5x12x70 plate heat exchanger, into the fully assembled tank.

No measurements yet, but the heat is flowing in the exact directions intended, with no apparent leaks; the pipes into the top of the tank are very hot to the touch, so I seem to be getting good heat transfer

Tank is not insulated yet-- I want to get it up to temp a few and make sure everything operates happily before enshrouding it in insulation.

Good for you Trevor!

It’s got to be a great feeling to see the last few months of effort finally producing BTU’s.

 

[flyingcow]

First of all, i always enjoy your posts. You have a gift for gab/typing. I'm impressed with your dedication to see thing thru. Nice looking tank But we need to see pics of assembled. Also, i'm quite dense, as one knows if they know me. I looked at this post from the beginning. Knew it wasn't here in the last couple of days. Seen the pics(ones with young fellas in t-shirts) unloading panels. than in a few posts you and the damn thing together Then i said, wait a minute, for a lawyer, seems awful fast. Scrolled back, now it makes sense. %-P

So now, when is the open house??? Hearth.com gathering? I'll bring a pile of liquids, who's bringing the food? need to see the tank. Whats Vt from here? About 10 hours? I'm ready.

Good Job Trevor!! You are to be commended.

 

[WoodNotOil]

Congratulations! I remember when I started on mine and thought it was going to be a couple week project in the summer... took me about three months and I didn't even have my day job to distract me! Of course I already had been using the gasser for a couple of years, whereas you were starting from scratch.

I would be very interested to know your tank side piping/pumping, any in tank piping, controls, temp sensor placements, and everything else too...

I hope it all goes smoothly. I also want to know how the plate hx does. The size of mine is my only regret, but you got a much bigger one than I did, so I think you should be golden.

 

[pybyr]

Thanks for all the encouraging remarks.

I sometimes tend to ascribe (intentionally or not) to the mode that 'anything worth doing is worth overdoing,' which sometimes means that I end up having too many projects going (plus the rest of life) and so nothing happens on the time line originally hoped for.

Right now the cellar still is in a state (partly because of this project) that OSHA would jail me for if it were a work site, so any show & tells will need to wait a bit :

So far, so good; stratification is going REALLY well. I didn't bring in that much wood today and I am finding that water _definitely_ absorbs a lot of BTUs, so I've only got it partly up to temperature (and now need to send heat back to the house), but the plate HX moves so many BTUs that I had to slow the pumps or else the stone cold tank would actually pull the boiler down. The water is staying layered so that the heat is staying near the top of the tank- can feel the distinct heat layers just running a hand down the side of the tank.

I have some photos of the porting/ baffles and the DHW coil, but have to resurrect my old fading digicam to get them ready for adding to this thread.

Sensors and controls are yet to come-- right now it's control by wire nuts modulated by grey matter-- wanted to see how the system behaves before I start putting time and $ into the controls.

 

[mole]

Congratulations Trevor,
Glad to see you've got the beast up and running.

 

[Nofossil]

Congratulations, Trevor. I hope it works as well for you as my storage has worked for me. I will be pretty disappointed if I'm not on the guest list for your open house....

Don't feel bad about your basement. I took a quick inventory of work-in-progress projects in mine:

1) Propane tankless heater
2) Radiant floor zone
3) Galvanized fitting replacement project
4) Electric start conversion for walk-behind mower
5) CNC Mill conversion - oil passage machining
6) CNC Mill conversion - electronics packaging
7) Suspended ceiling for rec room
8) Convert heating system controls to current NFCS version
9) Replacement driver's seat for Saturn
10) New sail for sailboat
11) Drivetrain for drag racing competition
12) Twin-turbo upgrade for RX-7
13) Lambda sensor for EKO

In the meantime, I'm also building and shipping NFCS units. It's hard to imagine anyone's basement being worse than mine. I just decided that people will have to live with it.

 

[Jim K in PA]

Good work Trevor! Even if you can only use a 50 deg Δ T, that's a half milllion Btus of stored comfort in that tank.

 

[jebatty]

More than exciting - need to see those pics!

but the plate HX moves so many BTUs that I had to slow the pumps or else the stone cold tank would actually pull the boiler down.

What do you have for return water protection? Should be able to provide boiler supply 160F+ no matter how cold the water from the tank might be.

 

[Chris Hoskin]

More than exciting - need to see those pics!

but the plate HX moves so many BTUs that I had to slow the pumps or else the stone cold tank would actually pull the boiler down.

What do you have for return water protection? Should be able to provide boiler supply 160F+ no matter how cold the water from the tank might be.

+1 on both comments! Nice job!

 

[pybyr]

What do you have for return water protection? Should be able to provide boiler supply 160F+ no matter how cold the water from the tank might be.

Until now, I'd been relying on the Econoburn's 'standard' protection arrangement, which turns off the system circulator and turns on a boiler bypass circulator whenever the boiler top temperature goes below 150. With the boiler feeding only the house water-to-air HX until now (via the primary-secondary piping in between), that has worked OK, but, from what I'm seeing, the immense heat sink presented by the cold tank is going to require some additional measure, so that the boiler doesn't have to go through cycles of diving temperature followed by gradual recovery. I expect that the tank won't be such a daunting load to the boiler once the tank is not starting from about 55 degrees (my old house cellar ambient temp), but I still want some management of the heat flow from boiler to heat-depleted tank.

Ideally, I'd like to find a variable speed control that can (a) keep boiler return temp above about 160 while the tank is loading; and (b) also serve as a differential-control so that the flow is only delivered to the tank when the boiler is above the temperature of the bottom of the tank.

I've been reading specs on some of the solar delta-T controls, but so far have not run across anything that will seemingly do (a) and (b) above in one box-- please clue me in if any of you know of any products that I am overlooking.

 

[tom in maine]

Trevor,
Nice looking tank. Can't wait to see the assembled pix.

I have not thought this through (always a good way to start out a suggestion!!), but wonder about a three way zone valve with appropriate controls.
I am using a solar differential control to operate my circulator between the tank and boiler.
At this point, I have not seen a need to operating a low temp threshold for the boiler, but then my boiler is a lot different than the EKO.

I have to wonder how critical the temp control is, since the tank will usually be a lot warmer than what it is when you are starting up for the first time.

Get in the basement and get us Interweb denizens some photos!!

 

[WoodNotOil]

Ideally, I'd like to find a variable speed control that can (a) keep boiler return temp above about 160 while the tank is loading; and (b) also serve as a differential-control so that the flow is only delivered to the tank when the boiler is above the temperature of the bottom of the tank.

I've been reading specs on some of the solar delta-T controls, but so far have not run across anything that will seemingly do (a) and (b) above in one box-- please clue me in if any of you know of any products that I am overlooking.

I am not sure you will find one device that does both. Two would likely be required. With your background though I would suggest building a controller like mine with an arduino board. Between my initial project and the work others have done since, it would be a pretty straight forward project and would give you exactly the control you are looking for. You could even control your 3 speed pump with it using the mod that Nofo put together to actually be able to change the speed based on conditions. Just a thought...