The joy of sheetrock... Paper vrs mesh tape..

[Jay H]

I'm a newbie sheetrocker who just removed the old sheetrock in my bathroom (see previous threads). I inherited a bunch of stuff like joint compound and some mesh tape from my sister. I'm familiar with how to do sheetrock, just haven't really done much myself.

The tape she gave me was a plastic mesh type where I'm only familiar with paper tape...

(broken link removed to http://www.homerepairforum.com/forum/walls-wall-coverings/5510-drywall-paper-tape-vs-mesh-tape.html)

Is that somewhat a good summary of the difference? Since I have panelling behind it, my sheetrock should be pretty much bulletproof in terms of lateral movement and stresses, so I think paper tape would be easier.. it sounds like it would be an easier sanding job to do that than the mesh... Opinions? Is this like asking chisel or semi-chisel?

Jay

 

[Highbeam]

I just switched from the old fashioned paper to the self adhesive fiberglass mesh with my last two jobs. This mesh is freaking wonderful. The beauty is that you don't need to bed the mesh in mud, you just put it on and then mud over it with minimal feathering. With paper, if you didn't bed the tape right you would get a bubble or the tape would be floating way up higher than the joint requiring more feathering. The mesh lays flat to the paper and your mud will push right through and into the joint.

I'm sold on adhesive mesh.

The only negative that I found is that it doesn't hide imperfections as well as paper. This is probably due to the fact that you don't put as much mud on the joint and is likely operator error.

 

[SolarAndWood]

Fiberglass tape rocks. Make sure that you cover it with your first coat of mud.

 

[rowerwet]

ditto on the mesh tape.

 

[John_M]

In the last 15 years or so I have used both types of tape on various projects for myself and friends. About 5 years ago I gradually abandoned the mesh tape and now use paper tape exclusively. For me, the paper tape is easier to apply and gives a better finish. I use a slightly thinner mud for the initial coat to eliminate air bubbles and provide better "stick" to the tape. I then work up to a 8" or 10" knife to finish the edges. A (very) light sanding gives a nicely featheared edge and an essentially invisible seam.

It seemed to me the mesh tape was a little more difficult to apply so it took more time. If I wasn't really careful using the knife a small tip of fiberglass would raise its ugly head. Then I had to add more mud or do more sanding or both to hide the tip of fiberglass. Using the mesh tape I always seemed to get more mud on me and the floor compared to using paper tape. Perhaps my application technique was the cause of the mess.

The mesh tape might be stronger in preventing joint movement but the number of and proper spacing of screws should provide this strength - not the tape. I place screws 6" On Center (OC) at the edges and about 10" OC in the field. I also use two screws about 2" apart on all horizontal seams. The screw head should be slightly below the surface of the sheetrock but should not break all the way through the paper. The paper gives the screw its holding strength.

Sheetrock work is hard work (or at least it was/is for me). Whichever tape you choose, enjoy the work and good luck for perfect edges.

John_M

 

[Jay H]

thanks, I know I need more so I am off to the store soon... I was concerned when I first saw the mesh tape about smoothing the mud but it does looks less of a air bubble problem, and more of a smooth problem.. Tradeoffs I guess! I think I may try the mesh and see how I like it.

Jay

 

[d.n.f.]

I am totally new to drywall. Now have drywalled my kitchen and now my office.

I read in Fine Homebuilding that paper is easier to work with than mesh. You can sand paper tape. I didn't have a problem with it. Just make sure you have enough mud under the paper or you will get bubbles.
I used paper because I was terrified reading that it couldn't be sanded.
Kinda like, do I buy the quick set mud or the longer set mud. I need that window for a longer screw up time so I took the longer set stuff.

If you take your time it looks great. I can't see a tape seam and more importantly my wife can't either.

Best of luck.

 

[firefighterjake]

+1 for the fiberglass mesh . . . my wife and I find it easier to work with and a little more forgiving. No real issues with it showing through . . . and we're albout 3/4 of the way through our home renovation.

 

[Highbeam]

Be sure to buy the kind that is self adhesive and use scissors to cut it. You can "tape" the whole project before you even get the mud out. The mesh sits right on top of the paper so the first light coat of mud on the joint will cover the mesh and won't need to be sanded off. I don't think you can sand paper tape either, whenever I have accidentally hit it with the block the paper fuzzes up and makes a mess.

 

[junksta]

My experience has been to use mesh tape where all the nice factory tapered sides butt. On all end butt joints and corners use paper.
Seen too many cracks in corners and rough joints.

 

[orangecrushcj7]

I use mesh on every joint except inside corners where is use paper exclusively. I have heard that pros use mesh on blue board for veneer plaster, while they use paper on drywall.

 

[rowerwet]

I was refering to the self adhesive tape with many holes punched in it, I have never used the mesh, I read that it is intended for use with the fast drying, light weight compound used by the pros, not the usual stuff us weekenders use. the perforated self stick tape is great and can be put up before any mud, it only needs two coats of mud to cover also, no bedding-in layer.

 

[Jags]

I use mesh on every joint except inside corners where is use paper exclusively. I have heard that pros use mesh on blue board for veneer plaster, while they use paper on drywall.

The mesh tape was designed around plaster (thin set, two coat system). The paper tape for drywall application. I am not saying that mesh can't be used with drywall, but don't use the paper with plaster (thats a no-no).

If using paper, make sure that the first coat applied to the board is of a high glue content (such as USG all purpose mud, commonly called "green lid"). The second and third coat can (an should be) a light weight version, such as the USG "blue lid". The light weight versions of drywall compounds are much easier to sand than the all purpose stuff. Thats why the second and third (finish) coats are with the lightweight.

As a matter of fact, even if you use the mesh tape, your first coat "should" be the all purpose, high glue stuff.

And....if you have never seen it....find it....paper faced inside and outside corner beads. Most DIY stored carry it now. TRUST ME! You will NEVER tape an inside corner with paper or mesh again.

Please feel free to ask questions.

 

[webby3650]

Jags, that is the best quick discription of how drywall is to be done! I don't know why the DIY stores don't let people know, it is so much easier to do it the right way.

 

[John_M]

jags is right: If you can find the plastic, paper faced outside and inside corner bead, use it. It goes on very easily and cannot be destroyed under normal use. It effectively prevents the chipping seen with metal outside corners. This is the product we used on all inside and outside corners (including the ceiling) when my house was built 5 years ago. This beading is more costly, but in my opinion, it is worth the expense. We used paper tape on all flat seams.

Best wishes, John_M

 

[Jay H]

I use mesh on every joint except inside corners where is use paper exclusively. I have heard that pros use mesh on blue board for veneer plaster, while they use paper on drywall.

The mesh tape was designed around plaster (thin set, two coat system). The paper tape for drywall application. I am not saying that mesh can't be used with drywall, but don't use the paper with plaster (thats a no-no).

If using paper, make sure that the first coat applied to the board is of a high glue content (such as USG all purpose mud, commonly called "green lid"). The second and third coat can (an should be) a light weight version, such as the USG "blue lid". The light weight versions of drywall compounds are much easier to sand than the all purpose stuff. Thats why the second and third (finish) coats are with the lightweight.

As a matter of fact, even if you use the mesh tape, your first coat "should" be the all purpose, high glue stuff.

And....if you have never seen it....find it....paper faced inside and outside corner beads. Most DIY stored carry it now. TRUST ME! You will NEVER tape an inside corner with paper or mesh again.

Please feel free to ask questions.

Great, I inherited a huge 5 gal bucket of USG green lid joint compound. Thanks for the recommendation on the "blue lid" stuff but for this small project, I think I will just stick to using the green lid stuff and sanding more on the 2nd coat. But in the future, this is good to know, or for a lot bigger project than my small bathroom.

I haven't done any tape work yet, still demo'ing sheetrock but I should be done with that after 2 days (I do have to work ya know..)... Could you elaborate on the inside corner bead? From my limited knowledge, you just take the paper and fold it in half along the center, then apply it to the inside corner as usual, there is something special for an inside corner?

As far as an outside corner, I already bought 2 8' metal beads for the 2 outside corners where my tub sits....

Jay

 

[Jags]

After about 10 min. of sanding the all purpose stuff, your gonna wish you spent 6 bucks on a bucket of light weight. Just my opinion.

The paper faced inside corner is just the mirror image of the outside corner metal bead. When I refer to "paper faced", that is in reference to the bead already having a paper attached to it. No staples or screws needed to hold it up.

The inside bead has the direct advantage of offering you a perfect corner, no messing around. If you use it, and don't prefer it, in EVERY way, I will send you your $1.20 back in the mail. Just do it!

Edit: proper application is to still lay down a coat of all purpose before you embed the inside corner bead.

 

[webby3650]

I agree on using the paper faced corner beads, well worth the money and very easy to work with.

 

[SolarAndWood]

After about 10 min. of sanding the all purpose stuff, your gonna wish you spent 6 bucks on a bucket of light weight. Just my opinion.

'


Second that...make sure you cover your tape or mesh with green lid on the first coat. Blue lid for second and third if needed. Blue lid only requires 220 fiberglass screen to smooth while you will make a mess trying to fix any indiscretions with green lid.

You may also find that the corner tool is nice for the inside corners on the first coat. Some hate it but I find it is much faster and consistent.

 

[Corey]

The few mesh joints I've done have cracked while the paper ones remain rock solid - maybe just my bad luck. My only other tips for sheetrock:

- thin down the mud a lot, it's way too stiff right out of the bucket
- if you have one of those home depot drywall troughs, throw it out and buy/build you a real hock. Its way easier to control the mud and much easier to clean, too.
- do only one side of your inside corner per day. This way, the next coat will have a nice smooth (and hard) surface to butt up to. If you try to do both corners, one side is still slimy and when you try to do the second, you'll booger up the first corner.
- a slight depression is much easier to deal with than a hump. Just come back with another coat of mud and fill up the depression, where the hump could have you sanding for quite a while to smooth it out. Thus - err on the side of caution and leave a slight depression if you can't get the surface 'perfect' with the current coat of mud.
- maybe too late, but hang the drywall with the sheets horizontal, starting at the top. It's easier to hit the studs with the screws. Also, lay the ceiling first, and put the length of that sheetrock perpendicular to the rafters.

If you really get into it, there is always;

(broken link removed to http://www.drywallschool.com/)

 

[Jay H]

Well, I plan on going to Lowes today, to buy some of those inside corner paper beads that Jags mentions and to buy some other odds and ends and look at corrugated roofing. (I don't know why I have two projects going on... sigh).. Thanks for all the tips! I hope to start the mudding today and taping and be ready to paint this weekend and perhaps start the floor. I'm almost done with the sheetrock except for my bathroom/shower cubby hole.

Jay

 

[firefighterjake]

+1 on the light weight mud . . . my wife muds and I sand . . . and she definitely prefers the light weight stuff. We've also been using some of the "low-dust" stuff which seems to work out pretty well . . . it tends to not go air-borne as much but instead the bulk of it simply falls.

 

[Jay H]

I bought some of the small $6 bluelid can, since I noticed the 5 gallon greenlid bucket I have is almost empty. I also bought some of the prebent paper/plastic inside corner bead and they are certainly pretty easy to apply.. I need to get some more for the wall/ceiling corners but I have enough for now. Looks nice. Today, I shall sand the joints with the wide gaps (amateur!) and then tape them and sand the mud over the nails then continue with removing old sheetrock.. I am almost ready to remove the bathtub and shower! Tomorrow the toilet gets removed...

Jay

 

[rowerwet]

I completely redid the walls in a 20X20 room from plaster and lath to sheetrock, I found that using a sponge to "sand" instead of sand ing worked much better, just work from the bottom up as once the mud is wet from drips you remove to much when the sponge is passed over it. Those big foam sanding blocks work great especialy on inside corners and around the wall to ceiling joint.