The 'Surprise EV'!

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woodgeek

woodgeek

Minister of Fire
Jan 27, 2008
5,524
SE PA
This article in the Atlantic made me laugh and cry.

www.theatlantic.com

Car-Rental Companies Are Ruining EVs

Good luck charging your surprise electric rental car.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com

Unwilling car renters getting an EV and struggling with them. No bueno. I predict that there will be backlash. And that the backlash won't actually matter. :)

Not sure about paywall... I think non-subs get a few articles a month?
 
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I’m shaking my head. NACS standard that allows charging on Teslas network would make this a non issue today. No idea what it will be like when Ford and Chevy actually build with the NACS port. Lines could be just as long.
 
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Last time I rented a car, they didn’t have what I wanted so they gave me a smallish Cadillac SUV. The blind spots were so bad on it I refused to drive it. There’s no way I was going to drive through Atlanta in an unfamiliar vehicle with huge blind spots. They next gave me a pretty upscale BMW. A fun car to drive, until I went to change lanes and the lane detector tried to rip the steering wheel out of my hands! I figured out how to turn that off quick!

Renting cats is stressful. I think sticking customers will an unfamiliar EV will lose them customers if the customer has to wait a long time to recharge.

But if the majority of their customers are just going from the airport to the hotel/conference center, it may work out fine.

I used Uber the last time I had a conference.
 
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How long does it take to charge at a "tesla statuon" we have one near our home with 12 or so "pumps". Often each pump is full when I drive by as it's along the major highway corridor.
 
I once asked a guy charging there and he said 15 minutes or so. That’s got to vary with battery size and starting charge.
 
EatenByLimestone said:
Last time I rented a car, they didn’t have what I wanted so they gave me a smallish Cadillac SUV. The blind spots were so bad on it I refused to drive it. There’s no way I was going to drive through Atlanta in an unfamiliar vehicle with huge blind spots. They next gave me a pretty upscale BMW. A fun car to drive, until I went to change lanes and the lane detector tried to rip the steering wheel out of my hands! I figured out how to turn that off quick!

Renting cats is stressful. I think sticking customers will an unfamiliar EV will lose them customers if the customer has to wait a long time to recharge.

But if the majority of their customers are just going from the airport to the hotel/conference center, it may work out fine.

I used Uber the last time I had a conference.
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That's why they make turn signals ;) - I believe once you trip the indicator, the lane detector deactivates. If I don't use the turn signal, say no one is around, my Ford Explorer gives me sensory warnings when I'm departing from a lane (feels like I'm going over rumble strip on that side of the vehicle). But at least it allows me to to do what I'm trying to do, even without an indicator being turned on, and doesn't try to override me.
 
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EatenByLimestone said:
I once asked a guy charging there and he said 15 minutes or so. That’s got to vary with battery size and starting charge.
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With few exceptions, I expect 15-20 min is correct per stop, and has been for several years now. Non-Tesla EVs in a similar price range have similar charge speeds now, but fewer stations to choose from.

The built in Tesla routing app optimizes the stops for minimum total charging time, this usually involves not charging above 70-75%, where all lithium packs don't like fast charging.

Part of the 'problem' with (price matched) non-Tesla EVs being slow is newbs manually planning too few stops and charging from 40 to 90% percent, rather than more stops charging from 20 to 60%, which takes about half as long total. If you use a routing app instead, you find that app can schedule your stops with much faster charging.

A 'surprise EV' situation with range anxiety and no app guidance will guarantee such inefficient fast charging.

My 2022 Bolt is half the price of a Tesla and charges at about 40% of the speed. Other that that, it does everything I would want a Tesla to do re acceleration and driving comfort. For me, saving 30-45 minutes total on a small number of short road trips was not worth an extra $20k.
 
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bogieb said:
That's why they make turn signals ;) - I believe once you trip the indicator, the lane detector deactivates. If I don't use the turn signal, say no one is around, my Ford Explorer gives me sensory warnings when I'm departing from a lane (feels like I'm going over rumble strip on that side of the vehicle). But at least it allows me to to do what I'm trying to do, even without an indicator being turned on, and doesn't try to override me.
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That could have been it! It was not the surprise I needed being in an unfamiliar place in an unfamiliar vehicle.
 
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woodgeek said:
With few exceptions, I expect 15-20 min is correct per stop, and has been for several years now. Non-Tesla EVs in a similar price range have similar charge speeds now, but fewer stations to choose from.

The built in Tesla routing app optimizes the stops for minimum total charging time, this usually involves not charging above 70-75%, where all lithium packs don't like fast charging.

Part of the 'problem' with (price matched) non-Tesla EVs being slow is newbs manually planning too few stops and charging from 40 to 90% percent, rather than more stops charging from 20 to 60%, which takes about half as long total. If you use a routing app instead, you find that app can schedule your stops with much faster charging.

A 'surprise EV' situation with range anxiety and no app guidance will guarantee such inefficient fast charging.

My 2022 Bolt is half the price of a Tesla and charges at about 40% of the speed. Other that that, it does everything I would want a Tesla to do re acceleration and driving comfort. For me, saving 30-45 minutes total on a small number of short road trips was not worth an extra $20k.
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Ford and GM are going to start using Teslas plug. That should make it a bit less stressful.

 
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Given what rental places charge to top off the tank when a rental is returned, I expect the fee to recharge the battery will be steep. When I used to travel at busy airports the cars basically were returned at the back end of a line, then cleaned while in line and re rented when they got to the head of the line. No time for charging so that means less cars available.
 
I am renting a car right now as I visit back east. I was tempted to try out a Tesla3 via Hertz, but didn't want to be learning a strange car as I jumped into morning traffic after a red-eye flight. Instead, I went for a lower-priced sub-compact rental from Budget. It turned out that instead of the Kia I signed up for they gave me a Chevy Malibu. Nice car, an easy driver, and most controls match the Volt's.
 
EatenByLimestone said:
Ford and GM are going to start using Teslas plug. That should make it a bit less stressful.

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It will be 2025 before they get it up and running.
peakbagger said:
Given what rental places charge to top off the tank when a rental is returned, I expect the fee to recharge the battery will be steep. When I used to travel at busy airports the cars basically were returned at the back end of a line, then cleaned while in line and re rented when they got to the head of the line. No time for charging so that means less cars available.
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If I was running the company I would have fast chargers at the rental location that that the customer would pay a premium for if returned with less than 75% SOC.

I really don’t see how rental agencies keep large ICE fleets with the tax incentives for BEV leases.

Last manager’s specials I heard of the vehicle was a Ram 2500 HD with the Cummins.
 
As a business traveler I just wanted to get the heck out of dodge and headed home and finding gas near major airports usually entails a lot of extra time. I would gladly let the rental agency fill the tank, but many of our clients would rather pay me $150 an hour to drive around looking for a place to refill my tank than pay the fee so I refilled it when I could and expected on occasion that our accounting group would send me a nasty gram about a client bitching about having to pay the tank fee when I did not fill it.

When I return a rental if I could plug it in that would be great but most places just have me return it to rental return line and someone comes out with a scanner and pops out a receipt, unless they do wireless charging I see a lot of issues with folks renting cars being stranded.
 
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Honestly, L2 charging speeds are getting a lot faster, and L2 EVSEs are cheap. So I would expect that topping off an EV for a couple hours would not be a major factor on rental EV utilization factors.
 
The Detroit Electric claimed it could run up to 80 miles on a single charge and reach a speed of 25 miles per hour, making it very city-friendly. One of its vehicles reportedly achieved 211 miles on one charge. This one at Montana Territorial Prison in MT.

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Dataman said:
The Detroit Electric claimed it could run up to 80 miles on a single charge and reach a speed of 25 miles per hour, making it very city-friendly. One of its vehicles reportedly achieved 211 miles on one charge. This one at Montana Territorial Prison in MT.

View attachment 313395
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Nice. Those ranges were presumably stated for summer time, and not running any AC or onboard heaters. :)
 
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Dataman said:
The Detroit Electric claimed it could run up to 80 miles on a single charge and reach a speed of 25 miles per hour, making it very city-friendly. One of its vehicles reportedly achieved 211 miles on one charge. This one at Montana Territorial Prison in MT.

View attachment 313395
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I heard on some YouTube vid that these (possibly not all) were picked up at night and driven to a central charger and delivered charged to the owner the next morning.
 
EatenByLimestone said:
That could have been it! It was not the surprise I needed being in an unfamiliar place in an unfamiliar vehicle.
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Yeah, in unfamiliar places, it is easy to be too busy figuring out where you want to be and how to get there (along with local traffic patterns and drivers that may not be kind), that the turn signal is the last thing on your mind.
 
15 - 20 minutes charge time is a no-go. It takes 1 - 3 minutes to fuel a car with gasoline.

If I were renting somewhere that I had the option to plug the car in overnight, I'd be thrilled to try an EV rental. But otherwise, this would be a reason to cancel the rental and walk over to the competitor's car rental counter.
 
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Dataman said:
The real benefit is charging at Home. Downside is On the Road Charging and Much Higher Insurance Costs
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I had crazy insurance on my first two EVs. The last two however, not so much.
 
woodgeek said:
I had crazy insurance on my first two EVs. The last two however, not so much.
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I don’t consider my EV insurance crazy. That said it’s 700+ HP 3 ton land rocket. I don’t expect it to be cheap. 8-900$ a year I think is what I pay with a $1000 deductible.
 
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