Thinking Of Simplifying My Heating System

[velvetfoot]

Getting older, have a desire to simplify, minimalize-get rid of extraneous stuff.

Right now, I have a Windhager pellet boiler that I've barely used, along with 6 tons of pellets in the basement, a 200 gal buffer tank with 17 gal ss dhw coil used with the oil boiler, a 20 yr old Burnham cast iron oil boiler with unused boilermate dhw tank, oil storage tank, an unused resistance electric water heater, an add-on heat pump water heater (unused), and a standby propane fired generator with company-owned 1000 above ground tank.

What I've basically been using for heat is my wood insert, with the oil boiler w/buffer tank providing backup and dhw.
I feel the using the 200 gallon storage tank is good because it is very well insulated, and the boiler runs for an hour or so to charge it up. I think that's good for clean running. The combustion chamber and tubes are quite clean when I do the annual maintenance.

I could get rid of all the unused stuff, simplifying things, and making some room in the basement.

Or, I could even get rid of the buffer tank and go with a mod/con boiler with dhw capability and use the propane tank. I think I'd get a better price on the propane, but if I'm still doing most heating with wood, I don't know.

I did the pellet boiler as a post-retirement project, oil went down in price compared with pellets, oil is very convenient, and I just never got into firing the pellet boiler.

What do you think? Rip it all out and put in a mod/con with dhw? Leave well enough alone, and replace components when needed?

Oh, btw, I'm on a fixed income, lol.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Are you short of basement space now? Will freeing up that space make your life much better? Gas boilers have come a long way, you can get them wall mounted, which frees up a lot of space. If you aren't doing the work yourself, it can be expensive to move a boiler. The plumbing takes a lot of time.

I'd find the fixed income part the most concerning. Why break the system you have if you don't need to. Why incur costs if you don't need to? As things break, swap over.

 

[peakbagger]

As usual, it depends. The federal government is going to be throwing money at convincing folks to switch to electric heating in the next year (it varies state by state). The money is supposed to be targeted towards lower income households, but at least in my state (NH), the rules are not yet written. It probably will be tied to taxable income so if you are living on taxable income then the rules may reduce the incentive but if your income is non taxable like a Roth than you may qualify for more (up to $8000)

Since you have a buffer tank and hydronic heat you have some parts of a transition but t very dependent on what type of heat distribution you have. There is an incentive up to $8,000 for heat pump technology (income dependent but its depends on the source of income TBD)). The easy retrofit is to install a couple of minisplits but that means your heat distribution doesnt get used and in house with lots of rooms the you may have cold rooms. The better alternative is to install something that looks like half a minisplit called a monoblock heat pump. The monoblock heatpump sits outside and heats antifreeze that heats your buffer tank. Since its a heat pump you get great efficiency during moderate temps. Taco makes one but expect several others will appear on the market soon to line up with the incentives https://www.tacocomfort.com/residential-solutions/

The big "IF" is if your existing heat distribution is adequate to run low supply temps and I am not aware of any incentives for upgrading. The current monoblock tech make a lot of warm water up to 120 F but really struggles to go over 130F. If someone has radiant heating in the floors, 120 is a good fit but if you have slant fin type radiators, you will need to replace with larger low temp emitters. The second "IF" is you may need backup if your temps routinely drop below zero, as the efficency of the units tend to nosedive below 20 F. Its the same tech as geothermal but the front end cost is far less but the tradeoff is low temp performance (ground temps are mid forties so they keep their efficiency in colder temps). These units have reversing valves so they can cool but that means running plumbing in the house and finding room for terminal units around the house to convert cool water to cool air. There is such a thing as radiant cooling but in northeast where summer heat usually comes with humidity it pretty well is limited to new super tight construction designed specifically for it. Note heat pump tech is changing with the transition to new refrigerants and there is some Euro tech that should be able to get up to the 160 F range (which solves the what to do for hot water question) My guess is its 3 years out. Its not going to be more efficient, it just will have that higher operating range (and probably will be less efficient overall but save a radiator retrofit)

The far lower cost/hassle for most is go with air to air minisplits for heating and cooling and keep a backup heating system for very cold weather. There are also incentives for heat pump hot water heaters so that is probably the best short term option for hot water.

Obviously dependent on your electric utility and rate plans, you can get a 30% incentive on solar electric panels and battery storage but I expect you have looked into it already. It matches up nicely with heat pumps.

Heat pumps are regarded as primary heating systems (unlike wood) by most banks and insurance companies so you really do not need a backup. Nevertheless, you can supplement with wood for as long as you are in the mood. There will also be incentives for energy audits and possibly the other incentives may be tied to them.

The issue you and I are looking at it what is your end game for housing?. If this is the forever home and you plan to be there for the long term, the solutions are going to be different than if you see yourself elsewhere soon. Hard to beat air source minisplits installed with government incentives for a short term plan on a house that you may sell and move elsewhere. If on the other hand the house is relatively accessible or could be made so and you and your spouse are in good health with no longevity issues in the gene pool that longer term investments like solar, monoblock heat pumps and baseboard upgrades may be better in the long run. If you do not already have AC, as temps warm up even in Albany NY, you are going to need it. If you house layout is such that you can run some cold water and drain lines, terminal air units (basically a box with fan and coil) are about the same size as a minisplit indoor head but like a minisplit it may not work as well in house with lots of rooms.

 

[velvetfoot]

I'd find the fixed income part the most concerning. Why break the system you have if you don't need to. Why incur costs if you don't need to? As things break, swap over.

Probably that's the approach to take.

 

[velvetfoot]

the long term

I'm 71, lol.

Simplifying, minimizing 'stuff' is something I'm been doing lately. Maybe just for something to do.

The site is just not suitable for solar.
Although, A/C is not really necessary here.
Maybe 5 days a year it would be nice.

I like the low electric power requirements for oil hydronic heating during power outages.
The house can be kept toasty with small wattage.
I feel I saved a lot of propane during the last 2 day power outage this winter by shutting down the 22 kW standby and running the Honda 2000 W inverter.

I have looked into replacing the baseboard emitters in the past, but nixed it, probably due to the cost/degree of difficulty.
I think the 2-story colonial design puts roadblock in front of a lot of retrofit plans, whether pipe, mini-split terminal units, or whatever.

The lower floor is open design, so a mini-split would work there.
The three bedrooms are upstairs.

Again, A/C is not required at my specific location-I'm at 1500' elevation as well, which helps in summer.

When I take a walk down my road, I notice it's served by farm type of electric service: two wire delta I believe. Good for farm country, which this was. A lot of the pole top transformers are very small. Mine is newer house, and is larger-I don't know the rating. However, if everyone on my road were to switch to electric, I can imagine there being issues with voltage dips, etc. Who knows when the utility would actually come out and rebuild the line? Never, if it were up to them, I'm sure.

The heat pump solutions, (thanks for noting the air to water development-I didn't know), are not simple though. I can envision a relative short lifespan in winter use compared with a conventional oil or gas boiler. I'm even leery of a mod/con gas (is there an oil now?) boiler because of complexity and maintenance.

Anyway, it's something to occupy my mind thinking about.

I'm not sure what the market would be for a barely-used 10-year old Windhager pellet boiler would be though-along with 6 tons of bagged pellets, lol

 

[velvetfoot]

As a side note, a friend of mine has a high end Carrier heat pump/propane air system. Maybe 5 years old. Anyway, last year or so, something went bad with the propane's system heat exchanger, I believe. It was cold out-maybe single digits. He said the heat pump was working and sounding like hell. I was there and heard it: not too confidence inspiring for a long run. Thankfully, his propane backup outage was maybe less than 5 days.

 

[peakbagger]

Dont count out AC, I am at 1400 feet in Northern NH and the minisplit is getting used more and more during the summer although I think part of it is mostly to drop the humidity. I have a second floor that was optimized for solar gain and its AC unit has been used for 15 years since I started working from home.

A good brand of minisplit is usually good for 10 plus years, unless its physically damaged, a name brand is good out of the box and rarely do they break down. I could be running my wood boiler this week but given the forecast I turned on the minisplit yesterday and the wood boiler may or may not get started again this spring. I have an 25 year old solar hot water system that is now at the point where I could switch over to it taking all the load instead of preheat so I really dont need the wood or oil boiler if the minisplit covers the load. I have excess solar generation and a grandfathered net metering plan so it doesnt really cost me anything. Basically, I looked at my future needs 25 years ago (I will be 65 soon) and envisioned where I wanted to be when I retired. Sure I may have been hit by a train and be in the ground or any number of other possible outcomes but I am now long past payback and living off the gravy of these systems. If I can get a subsidy to add replace my minisplits with newer units or maybe go with a monoblock its icing on the cake for me.

Barring some unusual regulatory deals, the utilities in most states require the utility companies to supply a level of service as needed to the public, if they need to upgrade, they do so sometime reluctantly as they are guaranteed a profit by the PUC for the upgrade. I took a course last year on solar interconnection and the instructor showed us a very detailed model of the NY state power system that the utilities had to contribute to, it shows down to the individual circuit (street level) the capacity available in the power system. Big solar farms tend to get installed in rural areas so it may be that some developer ends up paying to upgrade the circuit for their new solar farm.

 

[velvetfoot]

Dont count out AC, I am at 1400 feet in Northern NH and the minisplit is getting used more and more during the summer although I think part of it is mostly to drop the humidity. I have a second floor that was optimized for solar gain and its AC unit has been used for 15 years since I started working from home.

A good brand of minisplit is usually good for 10 plus years, unless its physically damaged, a name brand is good out of the box and rarely do they break down. I could be running my wood boiler this week but given the forecast I turned on the minisplit yesterday and the wood boiler may or may not get started again this spring. I have an 25 year old solar hot water system that is now at the point where I could switch over to it taking all the load instead of preheat so I really dont need the wood or oil boiler if the minisplit covers the load. I have excess solar generation and a grandfathered net metering plan so it doesnt really cost me anything. Basically, I looked at my future needs 25 years ago (I will be 65 soon) and envisioned where I wanted to be when I retired. Sure I may have been hit by a train and be in the ground or any number of other possible outcomes but I am now long past payback and living off the gravy of these systems. If I can get a subsidy to add replace my minisplits with newer units or maybe go with a monoblock its icing on the cake for me.

Barring some unusual regulatory deals, the utilities in most states require the utility companies to supply a level of service as needed to the public, if they need to upgrade, they do so sometime reluctantly as they are guaranteed a profit by the PUC for the upgrade. I took a course last year on solar interconnection and the instructor showed us a very detailed model of the NY state power system that the utilities had to contribute to, it shows down to the individual circuit (street level) the capacity available in the power system. Big solar farms tend to get installed in rural areas so it may be that some developer ends up paying to upgrade the circuit for their new solar farm.

Yeah, right. I'm on a hill that has at least one cell tower on it. They strung at least 3 dedicated fiber optic lines to it (them), and my house didn't get broadband until 5 years later. Only had it maybe 3 years now, Different utilities, etc, but I wouldn't count on your scenario.

 

[Prometeo]

If I'm not mistaken, I read that you need little energy to heat and/or keep the house warm, so in my opinion the heat pump could be a better solution. If global warming actually intensifies you may also need cooling more often and therefore you have a simple, bivalent system.