Under ground storage tanks???

[infinitymike]

I'm in my 5 winter for heat and just went through my 4th summer burning for DHW, but still want to get storage.
My friend has a Froling with storage and set it up himself, its flawless. He will help me set it all up and we've been throwing ideas around on the location of the tanks.

My Wood Gun is in the attached garage.
Theres NO room in there for tanks or the basement for that matter.
One idea was to put a 1000 gallon tank in the attic of the garage, but theres really no room there.
Theres only 40" from the ridge to the 2x4 ceiling beams and the garage door tracks are almost tight to the ceiling beams.

So the only other possibility is to bury two 500 gallon vertical tanks on the side of the garage and pipe in to the boiler.

The tops of the tanks would be about 3-4 feet below grade and about 4-5 feet below the bottom of the boiler.
They would be about 30 feet away from the boiler as well.
I will only have about 8 to 10 feet of buried pipe and then pop into the garage.

I even toyed around with the idea of cutting a "mechanics pit" in the slab of the garage and laying in a 1000 gallon tank. Then it would right next to the boiler.

Pro's, Con's ???
Expansion tank ideas and placement??

 

[velvetfoot]

I even toyed around with the idea of cutting a "mechanics pit" in the slab of the garage and laying in a 1000 gallon tank. Then it would right next to the boiler.

I like that idea. Still can run your car in there.

 

[infinitymike]

I like that idea. Still can run your car in there.

HA, No room for a car, well I mean an active one.
Its a 2 car garage and one side has a 65 impala ss that doesn't run (YET) and my Harley, the other side is for the Wood Gun, wood storage and other crap.

 

[ewdudley]

If they're going underground then the area needs to be drainable, insulatable, dry, inspectable, and serviceable. Meeting these goals would be a lot easier with the mini-basement-in-garage idea.

(You might want to be careful with your terminology around code enforcement, I believe traditional mechanic's pits are a nogo in NY, and for good reason.)

 

[jatoxico]

Buried I guess you get benefit of warmer constant temp relative to air in winter but that's a negative in the summer for your DHW. Just seems like if the insulation fails or gets wet you're screwed. What about a custom tank made to fit overhead, not cost effective? Then in winter when furnace is running pretty regular the garage will be decent temp and in summer you take advantage of relatively high ambient air temps.

Of course I know next to nothing about this...

 

[NateB]

I would consider an add on boiler room behind the garage. By the time you dig and insulate those pits, I think you could build a nice boiler room.

 

[infinitymike]

I would consider an add on boiler room behind the garage. By the time you dig and insulate those pits, I think you could build a nice boiler room.

No room either, theres only 5 feet to the pool fence and its my main path from the driveway, around the garage and to the back of the house and yard.

 

[infinitymike]

If the pit is outside, I will excavate deep enough to hit sand and then put a good bed of NYS DOT RCA for drainage.
I did consider pouring concrete walls to be able to put a removable timber deck on top for the reasons dudley mentioned. Keeping it dry... well thats not possible, but not allowing it to fill with water... thats the idea behind the drainable floor.

 

[infinitymike]

More importantly, is there a downside to having the tanks below the boiler. Even if I put them in the basement, (which is impossible ) they would be lower than the boiler.

 

[infinitymike]

Oh yeah, and of course there would be plenty of insulation, closed cell on the tanks and rigid on the walls and removable ceiling.

 

[maple1]

I think some may have done it, but the thoughts of having storage tanks buried outside in the damp earth gives me that finger-nails-on-chalkboard feeling. Cutting a pit, er, basement area, into the garage floor also sounds like a pretty big job. But I think I would put that ahead of buried in the ground outside on the choice list. Much more serviceable, less chance for heat loss, and most of the heat that does get lost from the tanks will at least end up in your garage.

They wouldn't take up much floor space, standing on end. My 330's are 3' diameter. So you could stand two up in 4'x7' or so - Gasifier dug a hole just deep enough to give him the headroom to stand his one tank up. That's what I would likely try to do. Maybe. How much 'other crap' do you have? Can it go up overhead in the attic where you were almost thinking about putting the tanks?

 

[Buzz Saw]

How about a few pictures of your garage to get an idea of the space you are working with.

When you say no room in the basement, have you considered non-pressureized? You could be pretty creative with the shape and size of non pressureized storage. That same thought process could be applied to the attic of your garage.

 

[Mike Fromme]

Woodguns don't need storage. They have Elves already.

 

[infinitymike]

Woodguns don't need storage. They have Elves already.

Come on, everybody knows, Wood Guns have GREMLINS

 

[infinitymike]

How about a few pictures of your garage to get an idea of the space you are working with.

When you say no room in the basement, have you considered non-pressureized? You could be pretty creative with the shape and size of non pressureized storage. That same thought process could be applied to the attic of your garage.

Besides a height issue in both the garage and basement, theres more of a floor area issue.

Dont know if pics will help anyone get a real grasp of the space, but bottom line, its a standard 2 car garage, about 22' wide by 22' deep, with a 7'-6" ceiling. It has a 4 on 12 pitch
And theres only 40" from the ridge beam to the ceiling beams.

BUT, I now Im considering headering off the ceiling beams to create a trough the the tank could sit in and drop down below the ceiling to 6'-8 or 7', whatever it takes to fit it up there.

 

[infinitymike]

But, Im still not sure if anyone has answered the question of, is there an issues with having storage tank above or below a boiler, or is it preferred to have them at the same elevation.

 

[Buzz Saw]

If you did one of those EDM (is that the correct term?) built in place non pressureized tanks 2' tall x 6' wide x 20' long =240 cubic feet.

240 x 7.84 (gallons in a cubic foot)=1881.6 gallons.

If you could support the weight and insulate it very well it could maybe, possibly be some what feasible.

Not sure about stratification though.....

 

[infinitymike]

That is a feasible idea, but yeah, not so sure about stratification, and Im not so sure how well a horizontal 1000 gallon stratifies, thats why Im leaning toward the 500 gallon tank vertical in the ground.

 

[infinitymike]

I have to talk to my precast guy and see how big they make thise concrete vaults for septic systems and such, maybe drop one of thise in the ground with a lid and man hole cover for access. That should keep the tanks dry.

 

[Bob Rohr]

Check out (broken link removed)

 

[infinitymike]

Check out (broken link removed)

That link is going to a clothing site

 

[BrotherBart]

(broken link removed)

 

[NateB]

Check out http://www.americansolartechnics.com/ I have purchased a tank and heat exchanger from Tom. The tank and service are great.

 

[infinitymike]

(broken link removed)

Much better, thanks.

Albeit a bit pricey.

 

[tom in maine]

I talk to a lot of folks who consider underground tanks. As mentioned earlier, I would only consider it if the tank was isolated in such a way that you can keep it dry (airspace in between tank and earth with drainage!) and can get into it for service. I cannot imagine any joy in having a manhole to get into a tank for service. I would be skeptical of a concrete tank operating at 180F.

Likewise, installing a tank in the ceiling introduces some crazy structural needs. Keep in mind that water weighs 8.32 pounds per gallon.