UPS install

[yrock87]

Goes to show you, you can plan all you want, but reality has that nasty ability to ruin your plans.

My P43 was installed with 5 ft of vertical rise to provide some natrual draft in the event of a power outage. and i have to say, it worked wonderfully in two tests that i did, once at 32* and again at 0*. BUT just because it is tested does not mean the situation will be exactly the same when the power actually goes out.

i woke up this morning at 5am to a faint smell of smoke in the house. i check the stove and the glass is dirty like it had been smoldering. according to my oven(which holds the time currently displaying during power outages) the power was out for 20 minutes. my guess is that since the stove was in room temp auto and it was still relativly warm in the room, it was in a ramping down cycle when the power went off. the natural draft was not as strong becuase there was not a roaring fire and/or the slow smoldering fire didnt provide enough heat in the 10* temps to maintain the natural draft. most of the smoke made its way out, but some of it did not, and that really runins your peace of mind while trying to sleep.

my theory sounded good up until the wife and I had to wake up and then go back to sleep to even a hint of smoke.

long story short, i am installing a UPS. and will rethink leaving 5 feet on my vertical rise. why add a place to clean and for creosult to build up due to flue temps dropping as it moves up a pipe in cold weather when it is not serving the intended purpose?

 

[bags]

Better to be safe than sorry. UPS set ups are not cheap but they are a nothing in the big picture. I have one now and it was on the list but low and behold there was an outage before I had one installed. Not much smoke here but it does make you think about it.

 

[bogieb]

I managed to get the APC UPS that Harman recommends for $66 (including shipping) last week. I always figured my 6' rise would do the job (all of the rise is inside, so the pipe would stay warmish in the circumstances you describe), and never tested it. I must admit that at first I only ordered a UPS for the St. Croix (after a 15 minute power failure made it evident that it would belch a little smoke during a PF), but thought about it for about 5 minutes and figured what the heck? At that price why not just make sure the Harman can shut itself down gracefully, and ordered a second one.

 

[bags]

bogieb,
That's an awesome price! Where did you find that deal? I got spanked on mine and paid $110. I could have gotten 2 for the price of 1. Damn!

Is it the APC BE750G?

 

[bogieb]

bogieb,
That's an awesome price! Where did you find that deal? I got spanked on mine and paid $110. I could have gotten 2 for the price of 1. Damn!

Is it the APC BE750G?

Yes, I got the BE750G's at Amazon. You just have to ignore the one that comes up with "free" shipping (or Prime) and have it list the other dealer. I got it direct from Schneider Electric (thru Amazon) for $60 + $6 shipping for each. But before I placed my order it said they only had 6 left, so if they sold that amount, that deal may not be available any more. Even if you don't want to go search for that (or the deal is gone), the BE750G is on sale for <$80 w/shipping (for Prime members) on Amazon

 

[TonyVideo]

I have had one instance where power went out when not at home. Stove with the approved Ups did it's thing and shut down the stove. I then have my backup heat set 5 degrees lower which did kick in before I got home so no freezing house. The UPS is worth every penny to make sure no smoke. My exhaust just runs straight out which is about 4 feet off the ground outside so no updraft. Very satisfied and have peace of mind when not at home or overnight.

 

[TonyVideo]

Longer outages I can use my Honda eu2000i generator which I have tested and works great.

 

[yrock87]

Ups are difficult to find up here. Amazon won't ship them (won't mail me anything with a battery) so I am stuck with what is locally available. A local store had the apc back ups 550va. Not the approved option, but my stove recognized the step - wave form and started its shutdown sequence. I am confident that even with the reduced amperage, this ups will run long enough to keep smoke out. I will not be testing this all the way to a cold stove because I don't want to put unnecessary strain on the smallish battery. But will post back if it is tested due to real world demands.

 

[TimfromMA]

Ups are difficult to find up here. Amazon won't ship them (won't mail me anything with a battery) so I am stuck with what is locally available. A local store had the apc back ups 550va. Not the approved option, but my stove recognized the step - wave form and started its shutdown sequence. I am confident that even with the reduced amperage, this ups will run long enough to keep smoke out. I will not be testing this all the way to a cold stove because I don't want to put unnecessary strain on the smallish battery. But will post back if it is tested due to real world demands.

How about wiring it into the exhaust blower so that keeps going when the rest of the stove loses power. That may be enough to keep the smoke out long enough for the fire to die.

 

[bags]

yrock87,
Don't feel bad. Everyone around here said they stocked them also and never had them. Every store pretty much referred me to ordering online and I did. Somehow that order didn't go thru so I was sitting waiting patiently for nothing. Then I had about a 3-4 hour power outage and it refreshed my memory so I inquired about it and found out then it didn't go thru. I did find the APC BE750G locally after a bunch of calling and paid a premium for it. Water under the bridge now.

 

[yrock87]

How about wiring it into the exhaust blower so that keeps going when the rest of the stove loses power. That may be enough to keep the smoke out long enough for the fire to die.

Tim,
My harman will go into emergency shutdown mode when it senses the step wave form of the ups vs the pure sine wave of utility power. I have to hand it to harman here, it pulses the exhaust blower on low in order to conserve power. I will test with my kilawatt this weekend to see what the draw is in his emergency mode. But the 550va claims to deliver 30 min at 100 watts, which is what the stove draws in normal operation.

 

[TimfromMA]

When my stove goes on backup power it doesn't even flinch. The stove will continue running like nothing ever happened.

 

[TonyVideo]

Harman designed the emergency burst mode of the exhaust on purpose. Eventually batteries die and if you are not home then you are back to the original problem.

 

[bogieb]

When my stove goes on backup power it doesn't even flinch. The stove will continue running like nothing ever happened.

There are systems you can put a Harman on that will allow it to draw from a backup power, but as far as I am concerned, a UPS isn't back up power, it just allows time to get everything in order for shut down (jut like if I had it on a computer, it isn't for running the computer, it is for letting me have time to save my work and shut it down nicely). The Harman is designed specifically for that and gets itself shut down without my having to be around or worry about smoke backing up into the house.

My St. Croix will not flinch when put on the UPS, but if power doesn't come on in short order, then it will eventually abruptly shut down without the fan available to draw out the exhaust. If I am home, that is okay as I can go shut it off and it will have enough power to run the fans until it cools down. If I am not home, then I will still get a couple of puffs of smoke into the living room.

 

[bags]

Bogie,
Sounds to me like the St. Croix would be a good candidate for the marine batteries set up like Tim has first if you would go that route. Then it would have 8 hrs and likely the juice would be back on so it would continue to run and the P61 would do it's thing and be running again too. That's a whole nother project though. I am still on the fence about it and I don't have time for it for awhile.

 

[bogieb]

Bogie,
Sounds to me like the St. Croix would be a good candidate for the marine batteries set up like Tim has first if you would go that route. Then it would have 8 hrs and likely the juice would be back on so it would continue to run and the P61 would do it's thing and be running again too. That's a whole nother project though. I am still on the fence about it and I don't have time for it for awhile.

Yeah, I know. But if I was likely to do that mod, it would be for the Harman as it is in the basement and I wouldn't have ugly batteries in my living room. I have a small living area, and every inch is precious to me. Plus, the Harman, when push comes to shove, can keep the upstairs at a reasonable temp (64-70 depending upon room) in moderate temperatures (25 degrees or better) and gives a huge assist to the propane heat in colder temps if the St. Croix can't run. I have a small generator that should easily start up the propane boiler if I was out of power long enough to need it. Plus, my cook stove runs off propane, and I could use that if I really needed to. And really, getting either on a true backup is not at the top of my priority list since I live "in town" now and am unlikely to lose power for a large chunk of time.

Okay, I know I could run the wires down thru the floor to batteries downstairs, but then I need to skirt the Harman as the upstairs stove is directly over the downstairs stove. Between pellet storage, the Harman, HW, boiler, and appliances (W/D and freezer) I loose about 1/2 of my downstairs already. Then I would have to a clear space for batteries too. Plus, I have a lot of other excuses as to why that isn't going to happen Of course, I reserve the option to change my tune at a later date, LOL.