Used Englander 25PAH with issues

[Sono]

Hello all,
I just picked up another used pellet stove tonight, an Englander 25PAH. The issue it has is with the igniter, the guy says its too short and included a new longer igniter, but he couldnt change it because the 1/8" allen set screw is stripped. So Im looking for ideas to get this stripped allen set screw out so I can remove the igniter and change it out. It will be awhile before I can get to it as the pellet stove is in the back of my HHR stuck in the driveway due to ice, and Im not dragging it 120 yards to the garage on ice... so hopefully it melts soon so I can drive down and unload it, but for now Im gathering info to make this job a breeze hopefully. Not a good picture but thats all I have for now as it was dark out and icy . Thanks for any ideas and tips

 

[ericofmaine]

I guess the question is: the set screw on the igniter collar? I'd go to Harbor Freight and get their set of Titanium left handed drill bits. Start small and keep progressively going bigger. Eventually one should catch and will back the screw out. Either that or you'll end up drilling the crew out completely then I'd re-tap and forget about it.

Eric

 

[Ricks]

Not an expert but would a reverse drill bit work. I am thinking the allen screw isn’t that tight so using a reverse drill bit may work.

I know others suggest an easy out, but if the easy out breaks it will make removing the allen screw that much harder.

Good luck and I hope the ice melts so you don’t have to carry the stove to your shop!

 

[Sono]

I guess the question is: the set screw on the igniter collar? I'd go to Harbor Freight and get their set of Titanium left handed drill bits. Start small and keep progressively going bigger. Eventually one should catch and will back the screw out. Either that or you'll end up drilling the crew out completely then I'd re-tap and forget about it.

Eric

Thank you, Just hope theres enough room, I do have a 90* drill that should help.

 

[Sono]

Not an expert but would a reverse drill bit work. I am thinking the allen screw isn’t that tight so using a reverse drill bit may work.

I know others suggest an easy out, but if the easy out breaks it will make removing the allen screw that much harder.

Good luck and I hope the ice melts so you don’t have to carry the stove to your shop!

Agreed, I broke one before on the larger scale and it was nearly impossible to remove, and being this is so small its all the easier to snap one off. Once I get it in the shop Ill try to heat it up a bit and soak it with penetration fluid to hopefully make it easier to come out. Then clean it before attempting to remove ( clean all the oil/grease off ) so tools get a better "bite"

 

[Sono]

Due to ice, I cant get it unloaded out of my suv to the garage to get model and serial numbers. But looking at the parts the guy included, Im not sure if this is what he was refering to or just an extra? I got the set screws loosened as I got a metric to fit snuggly enough to break it free, but not sure if this is the piece or if there is another inside still until I open it up. He said something about the tube being too short but wondering if the igniter itself is too short as its about 1/2" shorter than the tube? I remember on another pellet stove the igniter actually came to the edge or a bit past the tube? These are pictures of the parts he included, tube with igniter and a new igniter the same size. With the fixed collar the igniter wont slide further in , Ill know more once I get the model number off the back.

 

[ericofmaine]

I guess I can't speak to the PAH but that doesn't look like the igniter in either my PDV or EPI. Not saying it isn't right, just not what mine looked like. In both of mine, there's a separate bolt that mounts the igniter to the stove, the collar acts as a stop. I changed one this fall but unfortunately don't have the old one to reference nor did I take pictures. That said, a model number would definitely help.

Eric

 

[Sono]

I guess I can't speak to the PAH but that doesn't look like the igniter in either my PDV or EPI. Not saying it isn't right, just not what mine looked like. In both of mine, there's a separate bolt that mounts the igniter to the stove, the collar acts as a stop. I changed one this fall but unfortunately don't have the old one to reference nor did I take pictures. That said, a model number would definitely help.

Eric

Agreed, it was dark and icy where I picked it up so I didnt get a chance to snap a pic of the tag before loading. Now that we are about to have a super cold blast starting tonight I know my drive will be nothing but ice for the next week, was hoping to unload it but not happening yet.

 

[Ssyko]

Most commonly the igniters should not extend to the end of the tube, it is hot air that starts the pellets not the igniter itself.

 

[Sono]

Most commonly the igniters should not extend to the end of the tube, it is hot air that starts the pellets not the igniter itself.

I cant remember from when I had the last pellet stove as I replaced the igniter and cleaned the sooted sight glass. But does air blow through the tube or around it as I didnt see any holes for air to flow inside around the element ?

 

[ARC]

But does air blow through the tube or around it as I didnt see any holes for air to flow inside around the element ?

In front of it air does not actually touch ignitor air flow sucks heat from in front of it and the hot air starts pellets on fire.

 

[Sono]

Got the stove unloaded and started cleaning and breaking it down. it was full of ash behind the covers, got all that vac'd and blown out, vac'd out all the old pellets. Took the igniter tube out and got a new set screw drilled and tapped ( old was really bad to get out )
So far the issues Ive found is the igniters were too short, the tube is about 6" long and the igniter was about 4" long.
Now I will need to find an igniter but confused on which model I have and how to measure the igniter. Do you measure the whole igniter body end to end or do you measure from collar to end? If I go end to end it should be around 6-3/4" or from collar to end would be about 5-1/2" Pics attached.

 

[Sono]

more of cleaning

 

[Sono]

Unloading myself wasnt bad, car was low to floor, and stepped down with dolly.

 

[Sono]

All the igniters I find online show 4.75" long ??? Is the igniter supposed to be that far back in the tube? I thought the igniter is supposed to be 3/8" to 1/2" from the tip of the tube?
Cant seem to find a clear part number or size for the ignitor? PU-CH6, PU-CH and PU-CHA all showing they are short, did find a 6" ignitor for a different stove, not sure if that will work or not , any help appreciated, thank you.

 

[Ssyko]

With igniters it all depends on wattage, diameter, length, outer tube diameter, length, air passages so i would get it clean the test run it in the shop. If it starts up and runs i wouldnt worry about the igniter.

 

[Sono]

With igniters it all depends on wattage, diameter, length, outer tube diameter, length, air passages so i would get it clean the test run it in the shop. If it starts up and runs i wouldnt worry about the igniter.

Ive come to the conclusion that the igniter is too short. I fired it up and it just ran and ran, no smoke, nothing.... I can see the glow in the tube but it seems too far back from the front to ignite anything. If I stick a long-ish pellet into the tube it starts to smoke and chars but there is still 3" from the pellet to the element in the tube. The previous owner purchased a new tube with element but it is short, the same that pops up in all my searches which are not the correct legnth as the short tube isnt long enough to go into the back, pass through and to the front panel. So the 6" tube is correct, just the short 4" element isnt as it is basically still inside the tube in the rear area... the only igniter I see that would work is the 7" element as 1" sticks out past the collar stop on the element. Ive sent an email to Englander to see what they say about the element ( correct size ) As that is the only issue I can find.

 

[Ssyko]

Its hot air that starts the fire not the pellets making contact with the igniter itself. Its going to be pretty rare to change an igniter size, if replaced with OEM or Aftermarket.

 

[Ssyko]

I would give the stove a good cleaning all the way from the air intake to the chimney rain cap

 

[Sono]

Its hot air that starts the fire not the pellets making contact with the igniter itself. Its going to be pretty rare to change an igniter size, if replaced with OEM or Aftermarket.

Yes, hot air starts it ( I had a pellet stove before ) the element is supposed to be 3/8" to 1/2" from the front of the tube but no matter what the part shows a short element in this long tube... the heat is too far away from the pellets. I picked this up used and no clue what the previous owner did, as he gave me 2 new short elements with short tubes which dont fit the pellet stove, he said the element was too short for the original tube.
*** the short elements fit the short tubes leaving about 1/2" to the tip of the tube which is correct but if you look at the pictures I posted, the element is too short for the original and proper tube on this pellet stove. But the only element that shows for this stove is short which is wrong.

I downloaded the manual online as it wasnt provided by the PO

 

[Sono]

I would give the stove a good cleaning all the way from the air intake to the chimney rain cap

I cleaned everything, as pics show I pulled the plates and cleaned out behind them, vac'd and blown everything out with compressed air, brushed debris and used an HVAC brush to get into chambers... its clean.

 

[Sono]

I went out and filled the burn pot full, took forever to fire but I didnt time it ( started cleaning up the garage ) but seems like it took about 7 minutes + to ignite. Once it got burning it was burning good. When the blower kicked on the air didnt seem to be real warm blowing out? Id thought the heat would be pretty good coming out of the vents on the front. but was more luke warm that anything? So, it has a clean burn once it get going.
Now as far as the fake brick back board, it is gone and the pellets fall on that ledge and either bounce into the pot or lay there and eventually burn. Not sure if I want to buy a new back board or if theres a material that I can make my own , as well as the fake logs?

 

[Ssyko]

Did it start by itself? 7 min is pretty good.
I use for making backer boards

Rutland Castable Refractory Cement, High Temp Fireplace & Woodstove Fire Cement. Make a form and pour it/ trowel it and let it cure​

 

[Sono]

Did it start by itself? 7 min is pretty good.
I use for making backer boards

Rutland Castable Refractory Cement, High Temp Fireplace & Woodstove Fire Cement. Make a form and pour it/ trowel it and let it cure​

Thanks for the info. Yes it started by itself, just took a long time. About 7 minutes in it started puffin smoke, then about 10 or so it flared up. I know the Pelpro I had lit up within 3 minutes... so I thought this thing wasnt going to fire up... I just left it running and started putting tools away, then I smelled the smoke but didnt see any yet... next thing I seen a few sparks and Fire Once it got going the smoke stopped so that was a good sign. I am looking into resetting the control to factory settings as I think the PO changed the setting ( advanced settings )
as it wasnt throwing heat like it should be. A little research showed what the settings should be factory and another for an efficient long burn. My neighbor said he may have some stove pipes behind his barn so Im going to go see what he has so I can get this hooked up. Debating heating the garage or heating the house to cut propane costs.

 

[Ssyko]

My maxx with my own custom igniter starts a fire in 5 min. But its not Oem. Settings on stoves tend to be for that stove, a guideline so to speak. If it were mine i would spend some time in the garage and dial it in then road test for a couple days, then make its new home in the house. 😎