Want an Englander furnace but...

[Stillson lives]

I want to pull the trigger on an Englander wood furnace but it being EPA exempt bothers me.
Anyone know why this is? Does that make it a smoke dragon?

 

[BrotherBart]

Does that make it a smoke dragon?

Pretty much. For the life of me I can't understand why they haven't updated it to a clean burning design.

 

[Owen1508]

Most are 35:1 air/fuel ratio. There are a few that are certified (EPA)
(broken link removed to http://www.newmacfurnaces.com/index.php/homeowners-products-3/3-homeowner-section/products-section/116-solid-fuel-forced-air-furnaces-2)
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTESearch?storeId=6970&ipp=24&Ntt=7000+furnace

 

[Stillson lives]

Pretty much. For the life of me I can't understand why they haven't updated it to a clean burning design.

The Drolet furnace is certified but has no reviews that I can find which has scared me off I guess

 

[Stillson lives]

Most are 35:1 air/fuel ratio. There are a few that are certified (EPA)
(broken link removed to http://www.newmacfurnaces.com/index.php/homeowners-products-3/3-homeowner-section/products-section/116-solid-fuel-forced-air-furnaces-2)
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTESearch?storeId=6970&ipp=24&Ntt=7000+furnace

Thanks for all the info Owen!

 

[laynes69]

The Caddy and Mini Caddy are EPA certified as well as the Tundra from Drolet (Caddy firebox design). Napoleon also has a woodfurnace that's EPA certified. There are others that are tested to B415.10 standards if I recall that are also clean burners. The Kuuma Vaporfire is tested and proven a clean burner, it's just not certified. Luckily for many, more and more clean burning furnaces are coming to the market.

 

[mustash29]

It is a 1200 unit, full manual control of the fire, simple blower thermostat / control, with no dedicated secondary burn. It will burn clean if you run it hot and have good dry wood.

It seems that I used about the same amount of wood with my Englander last year (freaking cold winter) as compared to other years with my 1994 stove with secondaries. The whole house was warmer last year, not just 1/2 the house like before. Ash management was much improved with an ash pan, which the stove did not have.

I also did not use the 850 cfm blower the Englander comes with, I dumped the heat into my rec room and had 1, 2 or both fans running, 4" muffin fans from dead pc's. Allmost no power usage, quiet, gentile hot air coming off the unit.

I was using the same 10" muffin fan & 6' duct that takes heat from the rec room and blows it into the far end of the house. The cooler return air naturally found it's way down the hallway & open staircase downstairs.

 

[Stillson lives]

The Caddy and Mini Caddy are EPA certified as well as the Tundra from Drolet (Caddy firebox design). Napoleon also has a woodfurnace that's EPA certified. There are others that are tested to B415.10 standards if I recall that are also clean burners. The Kuuma Vaporfire is tested and proven a clean burner, it's just not certified. Luckily for many, more and more clean burning furnaces are coming to the market.

Thanks layne!!

 

[Stillson lives]

It is a 1200 unit, full manual control of the fire, simple blower thermostat / control, with no dedicated secondary burn. It will burn clean if you run it hot and have good dry wood.

It seems that I used about the same amount of wood with my Englander last year (freaking cold winter) as compared to other years with my 1994 stove with secondaries. The whole house was warmer last year, not just 1/2 the house like before. Ash management was much improved with an ash pan, which the stove did not have.

I also did not use the 850 cfm blower the Englander comes with, I dumped the heat into my rec room and had 1, 2 or both fans running, 4" muffin fans from dead pc's. Allmost no power usage, quiet, gentile hot air coming off the unit.

I was using the same 10" muffin fan & 6' duct that takes heat from the rec room and blows it into the far end of the house. The cooler return air naturally found it's way down the hallway & open staircase downstairs.

Thanks Mustash!!

 

[greythorn3]

i have one of them englander furnaces, its nice because its not picky about what it burns and will heat 2500 sq feet with a blower thru your ducting easily. i wouldnt trade it for nothing.

 

[Stillson lives]

i have one of them englander furnaces, its nice because its not picky about what it burns and will heat 2500 sq feet with a blower thru your ducting easily. i wouldnt trade it for nothing.

Do you have it hooked in your furnace at the main trunk? I have a duct line right above where I want the stove. I was wondering if that setup would work

 

[greythorn3]

ya i had it plumbed into above our furnace on the feed side, it was good but i decided to run dedicated vents to just the rooms in the basement as heat rises anyhow and the room the furnace is in is plenty hot just having the englander in it. i do have another englander upstairs in our main hangout area tho, its the nc30 and use it once in a while when guests come over and such. not really needed with the furnace but looks nice and adds lots of heat to the visitor/kitchen/livingroom area when needed or for ambiance.

 

[lampmfg]

The Caddy and Mini Caddy are EPA certified as well as the Tundra from Drolet (Caddy firebox design). Napoleon also has a woodfurnace that's EPA certified. There are others that are tested to B415.10 standards if I recall that are also clean burners. The Kuuma Vaporfire is tested and proven a clean burner, it's just not certified. Luckily for many, more and more clean burning furnaces are coming to the market.

Nothing is certified to what the EPA standard will be in the US, since the standard for wood furnaces isn't even finalized yet. A couple of company's had their furnaces go through EPA certification as a wood stove, but will need to be retested again as a wood furnace shortly. We did the B415.10 testing only as proof to how clean (emissions) and efficient the Kuuma Vapor-Fire burned wood since we were having trouble making people believe our claims. We also posted a copy of the actual test on our website.

 

[laynes69]

Currently there are multiple units listed on the EPA's website under current EPA requirements, otherwise they would not be listed on the site. The Caddy is listed as a duct furnace, not woodstove. Yes here soon there will be new standards, but those currently listed or certified should meet new requirements. Anyone looking for a cleaner burning furnace should know just like a woodstove, if it meets EPA certification or B415.10 requirements, it will be light years ahead of the old basic firebox and baffle furnaces. I understand you build a great furnace, but not everyone has the money to afford a unit like the Kuuma. Thankfully there are options for those with budgets.

 

[lampmfg]

There is no current EPA requirements for wood burning furnaces in the US correct? They will have to be tested again to meet the new requirements as a furnace correct? I agree that they would be light years ahead of the basic firebox and baffle

 

[laynes69]

I have the EPA certification label on my furnace, so it must meet EPA certification requirements correct? There currently is not a specific furnace test, but like you said those choose to test to EPA just like you choose to test B415.10. It didn't have to specifically be a stove for testing, there were inserts, fireplaces and some furnaces. The common denominator was they all burned wood, and had to meet EPA's requirements to be certified. Unfortunately many manufacturers of furnaces choose not to move in the proper direction, therefore mandating testing to clean up central heaters. Due to the requirements of the EPA, weight of the unit, burn rate, firebox size, etc. made things almost impossible for a furnace to pass emissions. Why would a company test if they knew they would fail? From what I've read, the EPA choose to go more in the route of B415.10 testing, which took in account many things that the EPA didn't. I've had more than enough discussions over this subject with someone else who no longer is in the trade than I cared for. Currently there are furnaces that are EPA certified, once the new requirements are out, they will have to meet those requirements.

 

[lampmfg]

You explained it well. It's just very confusing and misleading for the consumer. It's funny how vague the EPA is.