which home backup power station should I buy ?

[RustyShackleford]

I'm looking to acquire a power station to power my home during grid outages.

I don't need to drive any 240vac loads, since I figured out how to drive the one essential 240vac load, the submersible well pump, from 120vac using a transformer, as discussed ad-inifnitum in this inaccurately-named thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-12vdc-120vac-inverter-attached-to-ev.209598/

So I should be able to get buy with a sub-$1000 model, but which size and which manufacturer ?

Another factor is that I have a 40kWh battery sitting in my driveway. My previous solution was a 1000watt 12vdc->120vac inverter connected to the EV. This was inadequate because of insufficient instantaneous power capability (see below), but it could still do a nice job of keeping the power station topped-up if a grid outage appears likely to last more than a few hours. So the kWh rating of the power station is of minor importance. The main factor is the instantaneous power it can provide.

The EV-connected 1000 watt inverter did fine except for two things: the well pump, and the refrigerator's auto-defrost. My transformer rig to run the well draws about 1200 watts, but only for infrequent short bursts. I'm not sure how much the refrigerator auto-defrost draws, but I know the 1000 watt inverter couldn't handle it, even absent other loads. I'm feeling pretty confident the Ecoflow Delta 2 Max (or Delta 3 Max) could handle my needs. It claims to be able to provide 3400 watts in "x-boost" mode. This should cover all the miscellaneous loads that the 1000 watt inverter could readily handle, plus whatever auto-defrost uses (but it can't be that much more than 1000 watts, can it ?), and the well pump. Apparently x-boost drops the output voltage, but I think that's ok (the well pump is rated down to 200vac, so the 120vac can drop almost to 100).

But maybe I could get by with one of the Ecoflow's that only provides 1800 watts (still can x-boost to 3000+) for $500 or so. Or maybe it's silly to pinch pennies.

I also wonder about the options from other manufacturers. The BLUETTI Elite 200 V2 seems to be the comparable offering from that maker. Jackery's website is so full of popups and other nonsense that I can't even figure out what they have.

 

[EbS-P]

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you can set the AC charging limit on the Ecoflow easily. One extension cord to the car inverter set it at 500w and you could run days!

 

[Ryan_C]

I’d be careful relying on the “boost” numbers - that’s not the same as true continuous output, and things like pumps and fridges can be picky. Since your 1000W inverter was already struggling, I’d lean toward something with real 2-3kW continuous power. Gives you some margin and avoids shutdowns.

EcoFlow and Bluetti are both fine. I’d focus more on actual output and how it handles startup loads than the brand. Your EV backup idea makes sense, but I wouldn’t undersize the unit just to save a bit. When the power’s out, you want it to just work.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Well, from the youtube video, the DJI Power unit seems best for me, having the best output power rating (and I care much less about the watt-hour capacity, since I can keep it topped up from the 40kWh battery in the EV during a long outage, or about the charging speed). The price is now also about half of what the video quoted, and about half of the other units I'm considering, $364 at Amazon, which seems almost to good to be true. But the reviews are good and the video didn't have anything bad to say about it.

https://www.amazon.com/DJI-Portable-Recharge-Electric-Generator/dp/B0FD9Z5F3S/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=181574151730&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.znw1y6fpR_mo0OUoDseQDfl4o7R75eNfRTYvK7hvdAnhbJBL9ZE9BU6xw57wHEeI_q-pJjpsqg4kG5VtPV2LfbWPeUt_esT3gNKecJdFwv6LuUH8KixV7B95Ijm1yaV0BTj2RqObfnYTb3b2O9Rw7lw53Jp75Yk-EqliCMUdeWZKHJGEGTvSFcmHSdkK3MR3nsd8h5OUEc8zLb3DQIcXybXUo3_DSiJHu_wbL9SEF8I.v2KgmxOSdQ6ItNcmE0de5aBxbLbgu-7_OTHfZc_erO8&dib_tag=se&hvadid=779602627404&hvdev=c&hvexpln=0&hvlocphy=9009671&hvnetw=g&hvocijid=4612764728189723839--&hvqmt=e&hvrand=4612764728189723839&hvtargid=kwd-2422939701730&hydadcr=773_1015323042_2326678&keywords=dji%2Bpower%2B1000%2Bv2&mcid=f2c46e518f4838a58e3803a3db75bb1a&qid=1774627451&sr=8-1&th=1

 

[Whitenuckler]

Eco-Worthy 12V 280Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Battery | Bluetooth And Low-temperature Protection
Just ordered one on sale. It is the biggest battery I have bought. I sold my RV Camper and bought a 8x16 tent.
With this battery I can set up a nice off grid site.

 

[bogieb]

I'm partial to Ecoflow - and have four Delta 3 Plus stations (be fair - I won one of them). Those have a 1,024 capacity. I run them all the time to run anything from my computer to my microwave (1,550w continuous draw). I use them in a sort of off-grid style and solar charge them as needed. I also have several, okay a lot, of other EF power stations that I use all the time.

My first EF was a Delta 2 Max (D2M), and it is still my favorite even after adding other stations to my collection. All my EF stations are serving me well (although, I would not recommend the Delta 3 Air - which is not in the class you are looking at anyway). If looking at a 2,048wh station, I would recommend the D2M over the Delta 3 Max for several reasons that I won't get into unless someone asks me to.

I'm not as impressed with the two Bluetti AC180s (1,152wh) I have - I bought them before going to EF. First, and most importantly, they won't run my microwave even though they should be able to at 1,800w output. Well, technically, the nuker will run but it screeches horribly, so I don't do it. Both of the screens became a jumbled mess within 6 months of buying them. The app still tells me what is going on. I chose not to return them because they have (or at least had) a nightmare of a return process. Although some of the newer, larger stations connect to wifi, the AC180 is only Bluetooth, so if I'm not within 20' of them, I can't see what is happening. And, their app is not as sophisticated as the EF app (even with older EF stations). I rarely use the AC180s.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Eco-Worthy 12V 280Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Battery | Bluetooth And Low-temperature Protection
Just ordered one on sale. It is the biggest battery I have bought. I sold my RV Camper and bought a 8x16 tent.
With this battery I can set up a nice off grid site.

It just seems to me like I can do better with a power station that rolling my own with a battery and inverter.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I'm partial to Ecoflow ....

It does seem to be the standard, but that DJI one is such an incredible deal: 2600 watts stable out and 1kWh storage for $364. Like I said, I don't care much about the storage, because in a longer outage I can keep it topped up from that 40kWh battery sitting in our driveway.

 

[Whitenuckler]

It just seems to me like I can do better with a power station that rolling my own with a battery and inverter.

I bought a 20A DC-DC charger too. I will be able to recharge it from my Jeep, or I have a 35A battery charger.
I can then use it to recharge my smaller battery I use for my CPAP. I have many small inverters already. I have
a 100W solar panel too that can recharge it during the day. That should keep me powered up and I'd bring my inverter
propane generator too. Good thing I bought a 5x7 trailer to load all the stuff onto. The trailer money is getting a dent in it.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I would recommend the D2M over the Delta 3 Max for several reasons that I won't get into unless someone asks me to.

Yes, can you elaborate, please ?

 

[bogieb]

Yes, can you elaborate, please ?

It so happens that I wrote a review comparing the D3M to the D2M, so here it is (I do add a little blurb at the end, so if your eyes glaze over, at least read that - LOL)

I have some experience with Ecoflow power stations and own some other brands also. To this point, the EcoFlow Delta 2 Max (D2M), has been my favorite. It has been the best balance I could find for portability and functionality. I was intrigued by the Delta 3 Max (D3M) because of its extra reporting capabilities, quieter fans and lighter weight.

Ecoflow has listened to customer feedback on the Delta 2 Max (D2M) and repositioned the outlets so both the AC & DC outlets are on the same side as the Screen. All of the input power options are on the opposite end of the station. On the D2M the screen is on the DC outlet side, and the AC outlets are on the end with the power inputs.

Another way Ecoflow has listened to feedback is that the cooling fans were moved from the sides (on the D2M) to front and back (on the D3M). This allows for fitting in a tighter space, like for use in a camper set up.

When I received the Delta 3 Max, the first thing I tried it on was my microwave. This is a 2014, 1000w output, 1500w input over-the-range beast. I’ve had some stations, that should be able to run this basic kitchen equipment, cause issues. The microwave was happy to run with the D3M as its power source. My coffee maker and portable dishwasher also ran fine.

So, that brings up weight, since I move the station from counter to counter to run different appliances. The D2M is a solid 50 pounds. The D3M is noticeably lighter at a little under 45 pounds. The lighter weight is welcome to this older female!

I believe the weight is reduced by reducing the solar inputs to 1 x 500w (whereas the D2M has 2x500w inputs). There also is not an extra battery capability. If you need those functions, then look at the Delta 3 Max Plus.

The app is also upgraded from the D2M. The Delta 3 Max can tell you how much you have charged by solar and how much by electricity. Unfortunately, I have been socked in by rain and deep overcast for a week (and it is to continue and add snow to the mix), so I’ve only charged by house power.

The Delta 3 Max is a nice balance of weight and capability. It handled everything I threw at it without any issues. The 400w solar panel gave impressive input and I can’t wait to see how well it does next year when the sun is more amenable to getting full power.

Okay, here is the additional stuff. Both the D3M and the D3M+ have been reported by several people, including those that are brand ambassadors to be hit or miss for running a microwave. I can verify that my D3M runs my nuker well (as stated in my review), the D3M+ will not (and it is the replacement unit for the 1st one that did the same thing - i chose not to request another replacement). Other people have no issues with their D3M/+units, so like I said, hit or miss. Neither of my D2Ms have any issue and I haven't heard of anyone else having an issue with running a nuker.

Extra Batteries: The D2M has 2 EB connections. The D3M does not have any EB connections. The D3M+ has 1 EB connection and they sell an adapter that can expand that to 2 (at extra $$ and it's currently not available).

Solar ports: D2M has 2 input ports capable of 500w each. The D3M only has 1 port at 500w. D3M+ has 2 PV inputs.

Although I totally appreciate the upgraded app for the D3 series, and the lighter weight, the D2M is a rock solid station for which I have seen very few reported issues (and most of those are user induced).

 

[bogieb]

I bought a 20A DC-DC charger too. I will be able to recharge it from my Jeep, or I have a 35A battery charger.
I can then use it to recharge my smaller battery I use for my CPAP. I have many small inverters already. I have
a 100W solar panel too that can recharge it during the day. That should keep me powered up and I'd bring my inverter
propane generator too. Good thing I bought a 5x7 trailer to load all the stuff onto. The trailer money is getting a dent in it.

I also installed a DC charger in my Explorer. I don't drive much so it is more one of those things I can use if really needed.

 

[Whitenuckler]

I also installed a DC charger in my Explorer. I don't drive much so it is more one of those things I can use if really needed.

I got this one:

RENOGY 12V 20A DC to DC Battery Charger, for AGM, Gel, Flooded and Lithium Battery​

It's the same brand as my solar panel unit. I believe it has bluetooth and wifi. It was on sale. I got
it from Amazon. If it's bad, I can send it right back. It guess if you have it attached to your car you can
wire in a 12V signal to tell it not to charge if the car is off. Mine will be portable, but I might wire a switch.
In my Jeep, the "house" battery is under the passenger seat. I could run some power cables with a connector
on them put the LI battery on the floor in the backseat. When I'm out driving it could recharge. I have never had
a DC to DC charger, but with a huge battery like this LI I'm getting, I can use it to charge other batteries. This battery has
huge AH rating. All I ever had was lead, except for a small LI 12AH one that I made into a little 12V power center with a
voltmeter 12V socket ect.

 

[zrock]

I just don't get it, i understand the appeal of a power station and being nice and quiet. But what is wrong with a good old generator that you can keep running for days/weeks?

 

[Whitenuckler]

I just don't get it, i understand the appeal of a power station and being nice and quiet. But what is wrong with a good old generator that you can keep running for days/weeks?

I've got two generators myself. One for camping that I have only used on propane, and a monster 240V one to power the house. You can't beat the energy contained in gas unless you have a huge solar system.

 

[EbS-P]

I just don't get it, i understand the appeal of a power station and being nice and quiet. But what is wrong with a good old generator that you can keep running for days/weeks?

Fuel for days and or weeks. Reliability of small engines that are used infrequently.

Last long term outage here there was not fuel from days 1-6. Then places got power but fuel was scarce. By day 10 it was available. The water treatment plant almost ran out of fuel and could it get the tankers they needed. The were down to about 10 hours left when they got a delivery. Roads were damaged and washed out day after land fall. So it was bad looked like everyone would get the by the next day then all the roads into town flooded a washed out.

Read up on the what happened in western NC with Helen. I’ll keep my generator because I already have it. But I have not started it years. Water becomes your limiting resource not electricity.

 

[bogieb]

I just don't get it, i understand the appeal of a power station and being nice and quiet. But what is wrong with a good old generator that you can keep running for days/weeks?

I can solar charge my station if there is sun. I can move them around easily for use anywhere, and I actually use the stations during non-emergency times to shave off electrical use. Gas and propane are pretty expensive around here in the best of times, much less when there are market disturbances. And, there have been a couple of years that propane has been in short supply.

I had a gas generator that wouldn't start when I really needed it during a 3 day power outage winter of 22/23. the generator had never been used before so there wasn't any gunk in the carb and I bought a new can of gas/oil mix specifically for it - that is WHY I went to mainly battery stations.

That being said, I just received a dual fuel generator and test ran it yesterday off a propane tank. However, that will be a super last resort during extended outage.

 

[zrock]

Guess im lucky i fire up my gen every month to keep it working. Also have 2 toys here that hold enough fuel that i could run the gen for 2 weeks easily.. Battery power you are strictly relying on the sun in a outage to keep you going. So i guess pray for sun

 

[Whitenuckler]

I also installed a DC charger in my Explorer. I don't drive much so it is more one of those things I can use if really needed.

I received my DC to DC charger today. As usual, the marketing people made it sound like it has bluetooth and WIFI, but all it has is a an RS485 socket that they want you you hook up to an external comm module. I don't think it matters, as my battery BMS had bluetooth (I hope) and I should be able to tell what's going on. Bobieb, did you have an aux input ignition to your charger? I have not read all the instructions yet, or done any testing, but it appears this tells it the car is running and to charge, even though the car alternator volts might be low. I didn't realize that they changed the alternators to "smart" alternators, and some batteries have a current sensor on the negative post. From what I've read, the car PCM will send a PWM signal to the alternator to tell it to back off the volts to say, 12.8, instead of 14V when it's not needed. I guess if the DC to DC charger does not have this input, it might stop charging the other battery as it thinks the car is not running, as the volts are low.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Pulled the trigger on the DJI 1000 V2 unit. Seems like a steal at $364+tax on Amazon, and seems to have good reviews. Rated 2600 watts continuous output; good luck even finding an inverter than can do that for much less money.

 

[bogieb]

Guess im lucky i fire up my gen every month to keep it working. Also have 2 toys here that hold enough fuel that i could run the gen for 2 weeks easily.. Battery power you are strictly relying on the sun in a outage to keep you going. So i guess pray for sun

That is not necessarily true. I can take a battery station anywhere that has electricity to charge it if needed. I have a DC charger in my vehicle (so using gas to charge the station), and a small generator that can charge a battery in an hour (plus or minus, depending on the size of the station). Then turn off the generator (saving fuel), hook the station up to whatever (fridge, pellet stove, MTS), and run for many hours or even days off the station(s).

I'm not saying battery stations are for everyone, but for me they are a good fit.

 

[bogieb]

I received my DC to DC charger today. As usual, the marketing people made it sound like it has bluetooth and WIFI, but all it has is a an RS485 socket that they want you you hook up to an external comm module. I don't think it matters, as my battery BMS had bluetooth (I hope) and I should be able to tell what's going on. Bobieb, did you have an aux input ignition to your charger? I have not read all the instructions yet, or done any testing, but it appears this tells it the car is running and to charge, even though the car alternator volts might be low. I didn't realize that they changed the alternators to "smart" alternators, and some batteries have a current sensor on the negative post. From what I've read, the car PCM will send a PWM signal to the alternator to tell it to back off the volts to say, 12.8, instead of 14V when it's not needed. I guess if the DC to DC charger does not have this input, it might stop charging the other battery as it thinks the car is not running, as the volts are low.

My Ecoflow charger has bluetooth and will attach to my wifi if I'm close enough to my router signal - without any extra doodads. It connects to my phone app and I can adjust parameters from there if desired.

There is no aux input, it is literally two wires from the battery (placement is somewhat different for a smart alternator). The charger detects the battery voltage and adjusts from there - not pulling or pulling less than the 800w it is capable of if the battery needs the alternator input.

 

[EbS-P]

I received my DC to DC charger today. As usual, the marketing people made it sound like it has bluetooth and WIFI, but all it has is a an RS485 socket that they want you you hook up to an external comm module. I don't think it matters, as my battery BMS had bluetooth (I hope) and I should be able to tell what's going on. Bobieb, did you have an aux input ignition to your charger? I have not read all the instructions yet, or done any testing, but it appears this tells it the car is running and to charge, even though the car alternator volts might be low. I didn't realize that they changed the alternators to "smart" alternators, and some batteries have a current sensor on the negative post. From what I've read, the car PCM will send a PWM signal to the alternator to tell it to back off the volts to say, 12.8, instead of 14V when it's not needed. I guess if the DC to DC charger does not have this input, it might stop charging the other battery as it thinks the car is not running, as the volts are low.

What brand?

 

[Whitenuckler]

What brand?

RENOGY 12V 20A DC to DC Battery Charger​

 

[EbS-P]

RENOGY 12V 20A DC to DC Battery Charger​

I’d return it for a victron. I just got the 50 amp. It’s $300 though.

But like many things once you pick a brand you kinda get loved into their ecosystem.

Yes I already have an Ecoflow charger and I’m adding a victron for a completely separate battery system. That will
Be permanently installed in the van. Unlike my EcoFlow delta2 that moves around a lot.