Wood Burning Electronic Combustion Control Systems

[qwee]

Wood​

Germany is known for its high-quality wood burning stoves and control systems. The BRUNNER control and regulation technology offers a range of systems that ensure lower wood consumption, cleaner emissions, and maximum ease of use. The BRUNNER electronic burn control (EAS) is a standout feature, allowing users to light the fire and add wood while the system manages the rest. This system is designed to save wood and money, making it a perfect choice for those seeking efficiency and convenience in their wood burning experience.
www.brunner.de
Jøtul wood burning stoves with Zensoric technology are another excellent example of German innovation. Zensoric automatically optimizes air supply for cleaner and more efficient burning, benefiting both the environment and the user's budget. This technology is designed to eliminate user errors and enhance the performance of wood burning stoves, making them more efficient and sustainable.
Jøtul
RIKA's RIKAair system is also a testament to German engineering excellence. It offers a processor-controlled combustion system that automatically adjusts the air supply to ensure maximum efficiency with minimal wood consumption. This system is designed to provide a perfect burn and improve performance, while also allowing for manual control at any time.
www.rika.eu
ENDRESS combustion systems provide a climate-friendly and economical investment for various industries. They offer high-quality and robust industrial quality, efficient particulate matter filters, and innovative control of combustion processes. These systems are designed to run almost entirely self-sufficiently, impressing with the best efficiency rates.
www.endress-feuerungen.de
Lastly, German Ceramic Stoves' combustion systems are designed to meet European combustion regulations for individual fireplaces. They ensure effective combustion with low fine dust emissions and provide a calming ambience in the living room.
CORDIS
These systems represent the pinnacle of German engineering in wood burning technology, offering advanced control and efficiency for wood burning stoves.

www.brunner.de
BRUNNER control systems and regulation technology


Jøtul
Zensoric | Jotul

1. 
   Brunner
   https://www.brunner.de › en › control-systems-energy...
   BRUNNER control systems and regulation technology
   Imagine heating your stove incorrectly without even realizing it. With BRUNNER control and regulation technology, you’ll enjoy your wood fire even more. Our stove and system controls ensure lower wood …

 

[qwee]

Can I get one of these systems from a Jotul dealer in North America? Ya, I would like to save 30% on wood burning. How do these systems work? We are getting ripped off here in North America. Why do only the Europeans get these things?

 

[stoveliker]

I see on the Rika page "up to 50% less wood consumption compared to improper manual operation."
Yeah, and mine is up to 90% better than a fireplace.

That wood savings does not say much imo. What matters is as compared to what.

Second, my stove regulates the air supply too for a certain heat output. Granted not with the aim of clean burning (because the cat downstream from the fire is supposed to take care of that), but still.

I do think these systems are nice, easy to operate, and likely will save on wood, a bit, as compared to my cat stove and to modern tube stoves, but I do not believe they save on wood that much.
I dis like that it's another thing that can break, and is dependent on power. Yes battery packs can help, but batteries get old too when a stove is supposed to last 20 years. And it's more "stuff to arrange" for when the power goes out (unless the back up power is in the stove as that earlier one that begreen posted I think).

Also I think most of these stoves are much smaller than many stoves here - because homes in Europe are generally smaller, and stoves there generally are not used to heat the home, but to heat the room. So the heat output ranges are likely lower than many (but not all) stoves here.

I do think this is where we'll be going too in a decade or two. Pros and cons.
We'll see.

 

[qwee]

It is not just the wood stove - it is also other systems that can be controlled. Things like heat pumps, fans, and room temp sensors. So these can tie together several components - this is a big picture system. Yes maximizing the wood burner helps. I wonder why if you could save 30% of your wood these systems aren't being put into new construction? I would try one.

I think there are places in Europe where you have to have one of these things installed or you aren't burning.

 

[stoveliker]

I think there are "comfort" systems that tie everything (but the wood stove, though a pellet stove might already be doable?) in together. Home automation is not limited to lights and door locks..,

As long as there are no electronically controlled wood stoves here, they will remain outside of the control systems.
We'll get there. A decade, max two, I think.

 

[qwee]

The tech is available now. A person could install this in your house tomorrow and it would work and you would be burning less wood over the span of a year.

 

[stovelark]

I myself, like the ability and have-to operate my wood stove, probably my age and stodginess showing... Automation is great for the person who wants it, hopefully will not become the having to. I don't care for electric cars, but I believe someone who wants one should be able to have one if they choose. The choice is what's important to me.

 

[qwee]

"It was so painful. The guy came in for an hour and installed all of this stuff. I feel like a robot. I have so much less to do now. I like the 30% savings though. I hear the heat pump kick on sometimes. The temp is less extreme somehow. The damn thing tells me when to burn and how much - I feel like a slave."

 

[stoveliker]

I don't believe the 30% savings.
As compared to what?!

 

[Dieselhead]

“Look Ma, no electronics!”

 

[qwee]

As compared to human control. You throw your wood in the stove and now you control the burn. You can not do as good a job as a machine that is installed within the stove. It is on duty always and measures things better than you can. Wood is saved. Too hot and too cold is lessened.

Moreover, you fire up your stove when you don't need to. Instead the 'machine' turns on your ductless minisplit because it knows it is enough. It tells you to not burn right now. It measures temps throughout the house. It figures out how to get more heat to that back bedroom - so temps in the house are better.

It is just a bunch of computer programs - "If the temp out side is 46F turn on the heat pump, turn on this fan, measure the internal temps in several places, .....etc..." "Now the temp outside is 15F bypass the heat pump (unless you have a good one) load a 50 lb load of dry firewood in the wood stove. Maximize air initially, next decrease air , it is getting too hot, etc....."

 

[stoveliker]

Then again the choice wood or mini split is made easily. I do this all the time. The thermostat keeps me evenly warm then.
And my wood stove controls the burn too and doesn't do too hot or too cold because of its own (no electric) thermostat...
Yes you have to learn where to set it for a certain temp, but you have to learn how far to press your accelerator to reach a speed too. That's something one gets quick enough.

 

[qwee]

I say we do an experiment to find out how good these controller claims are - do they really save on wood? I'm guessing that the German government thinks so because they require their sweeps/installers to install and monitor these controllers.

I would be willing to contribute $50 towards someone who would try one of these controllers - a guinea pig. I think they are several hundred dollars). Someone would have to contact the company and figure out which one would be best. Results could be reported on. Best for a heat pump and stove setup? How to install? Probably few technicians with the skills on this side of the pond. Probably best in a colder area - like Wisconsin or northern Michigan but other places would be okay, too. BG what do you think?

 

[stoveliker]

I don't think the German government is in the business of saving taxpayers wood.
They want less emissions.
That is the goal of automation. Then it is sold to consumers with the argument of "no need to control it manually, set it and forget it". And that is true, but a side effect of the main goal: cleaner air.

 

[John Lehet]

I’ve had mini splits for 5 years. They are very optimized and algorithmically controlled. But I’ve found that the only way to be comfortable with mini splits, heat or AC, is to outsmart them or add some other kind of control. Set it to a room temp is often not going to be comfortable or always economical, unless the house is just right, like superinsulated with no stratification of temp.

I often wish the mini split could be smarter, like give me options. “I can give you this temp at x cost/minute, or you can turn it up but it will be y cost per minute, or if you run it later when it is 45 out it will be c cost per minute.” But as it is it is trying to do all the smart, and I have to use my wits to work around that and also to try to figure out what it might cost.

With wood burning, I understand a lot, but I could imagine an algorithm with sensors tuned to my particular stove with my particular chimney and with the wood I’ve got could do better.

Also I like driving a stick shift. I always have, and I still do. I like to make those decisions. I know the newer belt-on-variable-pully things can give better mpg maybe, but I like being in touch with the system.

 

[all night moe]

By the year 2040, the human brain will have no need to function.

Hell, half the population is brain dead now... LOL

 

[Rearscreen]

Hell, half the population is brain dead now.

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[EatenByLimestone]

German electronics work so well in cars after the warranty is up…

That’s why everybody wants 15 year old Mercedes cars!

 

[vatmark]

What happens if you have a power failure? Can the stove still operate manually?

 

[qwee]

I would think you would run it like you normally do now - the controller unit just maximizes your burning/heating/cooling.

I wonder how the companies that sell and back these controllers operate? They have sensors inside the house in various locations, sensors outside, and sensors inside the stove/flue. They can tie into other systems like heat pumps, oil burners, and fans. Then they can coordinate all of these things at the same time. Yes you would save on wood. Pretty interesting - a different way to wood burning. It is not just the stove but everything else in the house too.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Except the operator never learned to run their stove since the computer always does it for them.

 

[qwee]

You still run the stove by putting the wood in and starting the fire. Ya, after that you aren't needed. The controller might tell you something like, 'burn 20 lbs of wood'. Because the minisplit can handle the rest of the heating load. It just brings hard numbers to your attention - stuff you probably already knew and were doing - it just nails it down for you.

Maybe on your own, you realized the minisplit wasn't enough so you threw in 35 pounds of firewood - the house got up to 85F - you wasted a little wood. The controller used the 20 lbs and kept the stove in a zone where the temp stayed at 70F. When the stove started burning too hot it slowed it down. It would take the fun out of wood burning?